England centre combinations?

[Craigg]

Quite a debated topic, and the title says it all.

Current options and any future developers?

I'd have to see Twelvetrees and Barret in the upcoming tournament, but should hope to see Tuilagi when he recovers, if he gets back into good form.

Not too sure for future players to keep an eye on though.

Thoughts?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Short term:
Twelvetrees Barritt

Long term:
Eastmond Tuilagi/Daly

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I personally think we will see 12 12.trees and 13. Burrell for the France game.

Going from lancasters past choices I think he has put all his eggs in the tuilagi basket. So rather than look for another 13 he is using stop gaps as he has no intention of playing anyone other than tuilagi there.

I don't really think there are any stand out centres in England at the moment who when I watch I think they have to play for England. Lots of potential but no world class combo out there yet.

After the 6 nations we will know more about our top choices though

 

[Patchey]

I have to agree with Living Sacrifice here. I see Burrell starting and long term anyone who isn't Tuilagi being little more than a stop gap.

I'd disagree on there being no stand outs though. JJ and Daly should both be in contention for the 13 shirt IMO. What really frustrates about the apparent 'Manu or nothing' approach to the 13 shirt is that we have a lot of guys who are either ready to step up now or will be soon,

JJ,
Daly,
Trinder,
M. Tait,
May (potentially),
Sam Hill,
Devoto (possibly more of a 13),

For me out best non-Tuilagi option is 12. Twelvetrees 13. JJ and I'd like to see that developed in order to put some pressure on Manu to improve his passing and kicking game.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think IC is a straight shootout between 36 and Eastmond in the long run.

Lancaster has stated that he wants a distributing IC, if that's the case then Eastmond is the best option.
His passing quality is the best I have seen from any English back in years by quite a distance - he consistently puts people into space.
With Tuilagi and a pair of quick wingers he could cause absolute carnage.

In terms of carrying ability they are hard to compare. Billy is 6'3" and 100kg - Kyle is 5'7" and 80kg.
Billy is big enough to be a crash ball option and has the pace and feet to make a few breaks.
Kyle is clearly never going to be able to crash ball, but he's shown that he can still break the line in the 12 channel.


Billy's kicking is decent - he's certainly got range.
Kyle hasn't used his kicking game very much but I think he will start to use it more often.
As is understanding of the game improves he'll not have to hesitate before putting in a grubber or chip.
His territorial kicking is a bit of an unknown though.

Defence is probably where the decision will be made.
Statistically Kyle has a far higher tackle completion ratio than Billy.
Simply because he is so small Kyle will inevitably be knocked back more often than Billy will.
But in all honesty, as a Bath fan, I have not been worried by his defence at all.

I'd say Kyle also runs better support lines - partly because his pace allows him to catch up with players who have made a break.

Burrell has a shot, but I honestly can't see him stepping up to international level.

Go through this video and watch his passes - every one is to a man in space, in the bread basket and at pace.
Count how many of them cause the receiver to check. He does that every game.

 

[Craigg]

If Manu can't step up and show he's the man when he's back, Lancaster will certainly have to think long and hard about the future for his position.

 

[munstermuffin]

May hasn't done too badly at 13 and has gas. Think Twelvetrees and Manu would be fun to see but can see Eastmond getting in before World Cup

 

[Patchey]

If Manu can't step up and show he's the man when he's back, Lancaster will certainly have to think long and hard about the future for his position.

In an ideal world yes, but in reality I think Manu could come back from injury with no hand eye coordination and he'd still be picked on temptation ala Ashton.

Obviously I hope he comes back as good as before. He's been a long time without consistent rugby now though so probably going to be rusty. If he does end up being 'fit' for the final round or two of the 6N I hope he gets left at Leicester to get some game time and not parachuted back into the England XV.

 

[Big Ewis]

whoa....you guys have a thread dedicated to the centre combination topic ??.....

I can barely afford to talk about the team altogether on my France thread !!...

 

[glawsfan]

I can see it being Eastmond and Tuilagi in the world cup and I would love to see that combination. At the moment I don't think Eastmond is ready but give him another year in the premiership and he will be more experienced. I would hope to see Eastmond play in the NZ tour as that would be a good test to see if he is up to international standard.

 

[McTallshort]

Manu and someone else.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm going to put it out there and say I don't rate many that much. I think he is great at crash ball but fail to see him add much else in terms of a passing, kicking game.

I expected him to really have developed since coming on to the scene but I don't see that in an England shirt.

Now I'm sure there will be one manu fan posting one video of him passing once in one game but after looking through his stats he doesn't pass for England hardly ever! I just want more from an outside centre than that.

Maybe I'm being too picky.

 

[McTallshort]

Bit of a lazy steriotype that, as for a video of one pass just watch the NZ game when he put Barriett in.

 

[ratsapprentice]

There is no doubt that Manu has a (relatively) limited skillset.

Can you ignore how effective it is though? I don't think we can afford to.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

12. Brian O'Driscoll

13. Brian O'Driscoll

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tuilagi is both very over and very underrated.

 

[HenryChinaski]

12. Brian O'Driscoll

13. Brian O'Driscoll

That joke would be moderately more succesfull if Ireland had anything to do with this at all..

There is no doubt that Manu has a (relatively) limited skillset.

Can you ignore how effective it is though? I don't think we can afford to.

I think he's a very skillful player at heart, seeing him grow as a player through Tiggers and on occasion I've a bit of everything from him - I just think the issue is that when you have a dominant attribute in one direction such as size you possibly neglect others when out on the pitch. There's no doubt in my mind that Tuilagi for example would pass more if he wasn't so big.

Tuilagi is both very over and very underrated.

man you are so profound...

Wait, what does that mean? Certain aspects of his game e.g carrying beating defenders overrated whilst others are underrated?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I don't think it's lazy stereotyping when he plays for England, I watch all the England games and I don't see him pass on a regular basis. I just wonder if it's the England gameplan if he passes more at tigers?

 

[ratsapprentice]

"That concept of inside, outside centre is a slightly outdated one for modern rugby. You need one guy to get you across the gain-line and one to act as a playmaker."

Pretty clear-cut.

 

[Big Ewis]

12. Brian O'Driscoll

13. Brian O'Driscoll

still funny. Kapa knows when to use it. He's even got the avatar and everything

And yeah, please, enough with the Tuilagi criticism. He's the only athletic back really England has, plays a Samoan style ultra physical big pace all legs, huge thighs breaks the line constantly, is the only guy scoring tries or creating one off a big break often - and people here (or elsewhere) talk about how limited his skillset is or that he doesn't "pass enough"...
A Manu Tuilagi is a must on any team, any team. Maybe NZ wouldn't use him, and that's only a big maybe. The guy breaks and runs, there's just simply nothing better than that in Rugby. A try is 7 points.
Out of the top of my head just now, since 2012, he's scored one in Paris and the only try for England against France 2013, he's scored the one try for England against Australia 2012, and he's responsible directly/indirectly for all 3 tries against the Blacks 2012.

So please, there's no discussion...I like Tallshort's comment: "Tuilagi and someone else".
I'm sort of beating a dead horse here, but I feel it's necessary to lay it out nice and clear uncompromisingly. There's no substitute for power in Rugby. If I could have another Picamoles coming off the bench, I'd get one.

Looking at Rugby in its modern form, I can think of names like O'Brien, Picamoles, Bastareaud, Debaty, Tom Wood, Tuilagi, Nonu, Kaino, Etzebeth, W.Alberts, North, A. Tuilagi or even the little smaller but still powerful 12T, JDV, Fritz....as guys who have been decisive in try-scoring plays, if not walking breathing tries themselves.
There's no denying, on a larger scale of things generally about the modern sport, the importance and downright decisiveness of sheer weight and brute, physical strength.
I'm sort of thinking out loud here...pardon the off-topic widening.