England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[RedruthRFC]

Getting EJ was a knee jerk reaction to him causing an upset against the Springboks in 2015 and England doing so badly. Worked out in the end.

You could spin it that way, but is that correct? A knee jerk reaction in that context would have been the Saffers appointing him. Who else would you have sought?

 

[Which Tyler]

You could spin it that way, but is that correct? A knee jerk reaction in that context would have been the Saffers appointing him. Who else would you have sought?

From what I recall, he was the comfortable favourite amongst pretty much all fans who didn't mind an overseas coach.
He was also the best qualified for the job, and had coached 2 different national teams to world cup finals over the previous 3 world cup campaigns - he really wasn't selected based on 1 match against South Africa from anything reported at the time, or his CV prior to that date.

He's now coached 4 different national teams - 3 of them have reached RWC finals, and 1 acheived (comfortably) it's best result up to that point (and left foundations for an even better performance 4 years later).

Incidentally, here's the thread on Eddie from before he was even announced (though the OP considers it inevitable): https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/what-changes-with-eddie-jones.36930/
And here's the more general RWC15 post-mortem: https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/england-post-wc-discussion.36164/

 

[NickBD]

I mean Borthwick might be staying, who knows.

Sorry I know it's an old post but listening to 5Live earlier they reported he will be announced as Tigers coach at some point but will continue with England through the 6N. Then he'll go. Wording was weird they mentioned Hatley will be replaced by Proudfoot but sounded like instead of Borthwick being replaced, Proudfoot will be the forwards and scrum coach when Borthwick goes. Who knows.

More coaching news many outlets reporting England sevens coach, Simon Amor will be promoted to 15s attacks coach.

So that's everyone replace, going in to 6N
Jones
Mitchell
Amor
Borthwick
Proudfoot

 

[NickBD]

Under 5 weeks from first 6N game can't be too far away from the squad.

Fascinated to see how it looks, Torygraph had story looking at how different it'll look from World Cup. Tbh sure they'll be 6 or 7 new caps but not sure they'll be too much change with starting 15. Front 8 will be mostly same maybe Genge for Mako, you'd hope a new 9, maybe new 10/12 axis and my goodness please an actual 15.

 

[Scotty]

When are they announcing 6N training squad? Anyone know anything?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think it's usually after the January euro games

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

TBH successfully coaching the Saffers scrum doesn't indicate a guru. The scrum's still a matter of pride over there and they breed big, strong, aggressive front rowers by the dozen. It's not the most difficult gig. If Proudfoot can persuade Jones that dominant scrummaging's more important in a prop than first receiver skills then I'll give him due kudos.

Isiekwe's been playing a fair bit at 6 and I've read some good things. Obvs v different to Curryhill, but any thoughts on whether that could be his long term position?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Isiekwe's been playing a fair bit at 6 and I've read some good things. Obvs v different to Curryhill, but any thoughts on whether that could be his long term position?

I'm still yet to see anything that makes him any more of a 6 than a lock. He can do a job at blindside for sure but I still very much see him as a second rower.

I'd also personally have Itoje at 6 with Isiekwe in the row rather than vice versa.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Looking forward to see if Dombrandt gets picked. Hopefully he'll get the back row cover bench spot during the 6 nations.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Is Rees-Zammit EQP? If so I'd like to see him in the squad at least. Doubt May will still have his pace at the next World Cup so introducing another true speed merchant would be good.

 

[Scotty]

Is Rees-Zammit EQP? If so I'd like to see him in the squad at least. Doubt May will still have his pace at the next World Cup so introducing another true speed merchant would be good.

I think he is but i think he got asked over twitter who he wants to represent and put sent a Welsh flag.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think he is but i think he got asked over twitter who he wants to represent and put sent a Welsh flag.

Yes, seems clear that he wants to play for Wales and I could see Wales capping him just to make sure that he doesn't fall into English hands. But as exciting as he is, he's also painfully inexperienced - ESPN shows just 4 matches. A May or a Watson could make him look very silly and no-one wants to see him suffer Mat Tait syndrome.

 

[Scotty]

https://rugbyonslaught.com/joe-marler-tweet-destroys-twitter-person-with-x-rated-mum-joke/

Maybe im abit late with this but still, haven't heard a good 'your mum' joke in yesrs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

https://rugbyonslaught.com/joe-marler-tweet-destroys-twitter-person-with-x-rated-mum-joke/

Maybe im abit late with this but still, haven't heard a good 'your mum' joke in yesrs.

Subtle! You've got to suspect that's in contravention of a social media / disrepute clause somewhere.

Only a prop.....

 

[Scotty]

Lets say we ho crazy and decide to play an 15 at 15 instead of Daly. Who are the contenders because it seems there arnt alot of out and out FBs ready for England atm. And what do we think of Max Malins good balanced runner, mean step and plays 10 and 12. But seems like sarries want to use him at FB. He is inexperienced and prob has alot to learn but has alot of potential.

What do we think of him but who else is there to knock Daly off?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm a big fan of Malins. He's exactly what I loon for in a 15; can act as a second playmaker but also has the pace to act as an individual attacking threat when you need him to. He's Goode but with athletic ability.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Watson. Ought to be a no brainer.

Malins is just covering Goode's injury and will be straight back to the Sarries bench as soon as Goode is fit. And what is his best position anyway?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Lets say we ho crazy and decide to play an 15 at 15 instead of Daly. Who are the contenders because it seems there arnt alot of out and out FBs ready for England atm. And what do we think of Max Malins good balanced runner, mean step and plays 10 and 12. But seems like sarries want to use him at FB. He is inexperienced and prob has alot to learn but has alot of potential.

What do we think of him but who else is there to knock Daly off?

Is Malins any good in the air or at last ditch tackles? Those are Daly's weaknesses and that's what needs fixing at fullback. Otherwise, we gain nothing by putting Malins in there over Daly. Didn't Nowell play a lot of fullback earlier in his career? I'd like to see him given a shot, he's got all the skills (albeit no size). And Watson is proven there to my mind, but not a playmaker like Daly, and that's what Eddie likes there.

I also think Eddie's in a bit of a tricky position with Saracens. I don't think he can select players from the Championship, so he won't want Sarries to go down or he will lose a big talent pool, so when it comes to selecting promising youngsters from Sarries like Malins, Earl, Kpoku, Isiekwe etc, if he takes them as well as Sarries' England regulars for the 6 Nations squad, he's pretty much guaranteeing Sarries will lose their Premiership games during the 6 Nations, coz they'll be down to 3rd-stringers for the most part. Given that there is a Barbarians match and a 2-game tour of Japan coming up (and that Eddie has hinted he would rest his World Cup squad for the Japan tour (IIRC)), I think it likely he leaves Sarries' youngsters out of the squad until then. He'll pick some new young talent like Hill, Dombrandt etc for this 6 Nations, but given Sarries' issues, together with the overall youth of the England squad anyway, I don't think we'll see more than half a dozen, and probably mainly at problem positions with not much depth such as 3, 8 and 9. Otherwise, there ain't a lot that needs fixing.

 

[Scotty]

Is Malins any good in the air or at last ditch tackles? Those are Daly's weaknesses and that's what needs fixing at fullback. Otherwise, we gain nothing by putting Malins in there over Daly. Didn't Nowell play a lot of fullback earlier in his career? I'd like to see him given a shot, he's got all the skills (albeit no size). And Watson is proven there to my mind, but not a playmaker like Daly, and that's what Eddie likes there.

I also think Eddie's in a bit of a tricky position with Saracens. I don't think he can select players from the Championship, so he won't want Sarries to go down or he will lose a big talent pool, so when it comes to selecting promising youngsters from Sarries like Malins, Earl, Kpoku, Isiekwe etc, if he takes them as well as Sarries' England regulars for the 6 Nations squad, he's pretty much guaranteeing Sarries will lose their Premiership games during the 6 Nations, coz they'll be down to 3rd-stringers for the most part. Given that there is a Barbarians match and a 2-game tour of Japan coming up (and that Eddie has hinted he would rest his World Cup squad for the Japan tour (IIRC)), I think it likely he leaves Sarries' youngsters out of the squad until then. He'll pick some new young talent like Hill, Dombrandt etc for this 6 Nations, but given Sarries' issues, together with the overall youth of the England squad anyway, I don't think we'll see more than half a dozen, and probably mainly at problem positions with not much depth such as 3, 8 and 9. Otherwise, there ain't a lot that needs fixing.

Pretty sure he can pick from the championship anyway but thats pointless because no way sarries will go down.

Some good points above. Malins is at the age where if he is used as a FB he can fully learn the role. I like the playmaker at FB tbh and he has a few games to prove himself. I think this 6N might be too soon for him but he has real potential.

Nowell is a good FB if you need cover same as at 13 but i wouldnt pick him in either over an out and out FB.

Honestly id rather watson 11 daly 15 than vicr versa for that play maker and what he brings going forward. Its a tough one i rate watson as a better FB but for englands game plan daly fits better.

I was talking who have we got to come in? Watson and daly but who is up and coming?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Pretty sure he can pick from the championship anyway but thats pointless because no way sarries will go down.

Some good points above. Malins is at the age where if he is used as a FB he can fully learn the role. I like the playmaker at FB tbh and he has a few games to prove himself. I think this 6N might be too soon for him but he has real potential.

Nowell is a good FB if you need cover same as at 13 but i wouldnt pick him in either over an out and out FB.

Honestly id rather watson 11 daly 15 than vicr versa for that play maker and what he brings going forward. Its a tough one i rate watson as a better FB but for englands game plan daly fits better.

I was talking who have we got to come in? Watson and daly but who is up and coming?

Harry Mallinder?

We produce a lot of exciting wingers, but not a lot of natural fullbacks it seems. Matt Gallagher was promising, but he seems stuck in fifth on the depth chart at Sarries behind Goode, Daly, Williams and Malins. Perhaps if he moved on, he could get a chance to prove himself?

Or could we convert a winger or a flyhalf to fullback and have them learn to become proficient at the defensive parts of the job? I was hoping Daly would improve with practice, but he always seems so jittery in the air. Maybe Gabriel Ibitoye or Manu Vunipola could be developed there. They have excellent size for the position and are both dangerous on the counter. Or am I just daydreaming?