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England Rugby 2020/21 Thread

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Pieter Steph du Teague

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That's rough, then - as we'd only have 22men

Maybe that's where the rumours of Odogwu have come from - he was all set to be called up by Italy, but if JJ and Watson are both doubts...
I would imagine the Bath players would just have to sit this 6N out and we'd pick a 28-man squad without them. Presumably if there were injuries in the squad then they could be called in.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I don't really see why everyone sees Farrell as being such a weak option for us at 12.
I've always been Farrell's biggest champion on here, but he had a shocking Autumn - and then who's behind? an out of position Slade, who's shown multiple times he should only be at 13?
We need to be looking at proper options at 12, but we've lost the best one we've got


This is probably a discussion for the England thread though :p
 

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So when is the squad announced?
Tried to look it up last night but couldn't find anything - you'd have thought they'd have a note on the website or something
I was hoping for today as Wales and Scotland both have, but doesn't look like it now

Edit: Just seen in an article about Odogwu that it's on Friday
 

Reiser99

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My issue with it is that it's almost become a race to cap players even if they are not ready. "Oh England aren't going to cap you at age 21? Come to us we will."

I've said it in another thread that I think if a player plays for a nation at u20's level, they should not be able to be picked by another country for at least 3 years. While I don't begrudge Redpath choosing Scotland, it does for me feel like poaching from Scotland as they know England are interested, but EJ feels he's not ready. 21 is very young and countries should not be forced to pick a player just to stop another country doing so.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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Not a terrible shout TBH. I’ll be worried if we start the tournament with Harry Williams as first choice.
Williams is ok and solid enough as our 3rd choice. Agree he is always underwhelming in an England shirt but he’s solid enough for a third choice.
 

RedruthRFC

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I don't really see why everyone sees Farrell as being such a weak option for us at 12. In EJ's tenure, we've always looked best with him in that shirt. Maybe Redpath would become a better option than him in the future but for this 6N at the very least Farrell is still comfortably the better option.
Ignoring the autumn series, I think that's an oversimplification. If England are better with the Ford / Farrell axis, what's to say that that's not because it means that Ford's on the pitch?
 

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My issue with it is that it's almost become a race to cap players even if they are not ready. "Oh England aren't going to cap you at age 21? Come to us we will."

I've said it in another thread that I think if a player plays for a nation at u20's level, they should not be able to be picked by another country for at least 3 years. While I don't begrudge Redpath choosing Scotland, it does for me feel like poaching from Scotland as they know England are interested, but EJ feels he's not ready. 21 is very young and countries should not be forced to pick a player just to stop another country doing so.
Agreed.

Obviously Redpath has a very strong connection to Scotland, but this is becoming more and more commonplace and increasingly irritating.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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Ignoring the autumn series, I think that's an oversimplification. If England are better with the Ford / Farrell axis, what's to say that that's not because it means that Ford's on the pitch?
I think we looked best with Farrell, Manu & Slade to be honest.
 

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Williams is ok and solid enough as our 3rd choice. Agree he is always underwhelming in an England shirt but he’s solid enough for a third choice.
I agree. He’s fine as a third choice. My fear is that if we can’t pick Sinckler or Stuart, we’re left with him starting and an untried option on the bench (Joe Heyes?).
 

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Honestly think in that situation EJ would have Marler covering tighthead from the bench
 

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I've always been Farrell's biggest champion on here, but he had a shocking Autumn - and then who's behind? an out of position Slade, who's shown multiple times he should only be at 13?
We need to be looking at proper options at 12, but we've lost the best one we've got


This is probably a discussion for the England thread though :p
The issue with Farrell, is he is not a natural playmaker.

For Sarries, he had Wigglesworth, Barritt, and Goode reading the game for him.
For England there isn't the voices telling him.
TBH, Johnny could be the same, with Greenwood and Catt being his eyes.
Slade is a great partnership and now seems to be happier to call the shots.
Malins would be a good option at FB as he reads the game so well.
That leaves a running threat at IC, and 2 wingers who can catch to support Malins.
ATM, Lawrence, May and Watson would have those shirts, May on credit as he has not done much for Gloucs.

Daly would be the bench replacement, as he can cover 4 positions, with Slade and Malins the reserve 10s.
 

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I think we looked best with Farrell, Manu & Slade to be honest.
With England vs New Zealand tinted spectacles, yes. I only watched the game live and then one or two analysis videos shortly afterwards, but my recollection is that in that game, they didn't pose too many problems for New Zealand, it was a number of forwards having outstanding carrying games that did the damage. The outstanding feature of the midfield was Tuilagi's defensive shift as I remember it.
 

Pieter Steph du Teague

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On Tighthead, I’d (quite controversially, I imagine) go for 3. Heyes 18. Cole.

IMO Heyes has the most potential of the young English tightheads and is playing at a standard where he’d be a capable international. With our 1st and 2nd choice tightheads out, I doubt that we’ll get a much better opportunity to see whether he’s up to scratch.

The reason I’d start him and have Cole on the bench is that if it turns out that Heyes isn’t ready yet and is getting handily beaten in scrums, we know that at the very least Cole can come on and secure the scrum, which I don’t think can necessarily be said of Williams. This way around, we find out early if Heyes is up to standard and can easily fix the issue if he’s not by bringing on Cole, rather than being stuck with a tighthead who isn’t a good enough scrummager for the last 20-30 minutes with no way of replacing him. Plus, Cole’s likely mentored Heyes through his entire Leicester 1st XV career; it makes sense to have him do it at international level as well.
 

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On Tighthead, I’d (quite controversially, I imagine) go for 3. Heyes 18. Cole.

IMO Heyes has the most potential of the young English tightheads and is playing at a standard where he’d be a capable international. With our 1st and 2nd choice tightheads out, I doubt that we’ll get a much better opportunity to see whether he’s up to scratch.

The reason I’d start him and have Cole on the bench is that if it turns out that Heyes isn’t ready yet and is getting handily beaten in scrums, we know that at the very least Cole can come on and secure the scrum, which I don’t think can necessarily be said of Williams. This way around, we find out early if Heyes is up to standard and can easily fix the issue if he’s not by bringing on Cole, rather than being stuck with a tighthead who isn’t a good enough scrummager for the last 20-30 minutes with no way of replacing him. Plus, Cole’s likely mentored Heyes through his entire Leicester 1st XV career; it makes sense to have him do it at international level as well.
Neat theory but if he names a full squad with only 2 THs that will play through the whole tournament (barring real or imagined injuries) I’d be amazed if it’s those 2.

For a one off match possibly, but not a whole tournament where the squad will be in a bubble. Both are risks - Heyes is inexperienced while Jones clearly cooled on Cole over a period and his last appearance when he totally did not anchor the scrum when coming off the bench will be seared in Jones mind. And once Jones shuts the door on someone it tends to stay shut.

Williams has been there or thereabouts for a while. He has a few caps and knows most of the systems. If his scrummaging hasn’t gone totally to pot it would be illogical not to include him. And Schonert would be a good call for the bench.

Knowing Jones he’ll probably resurrect Paul Hill.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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On Tighthead, I’d (quite controversially, I imagine) go for 3. Heyes 18. Cole.

IMO Heyes has the most potential of the young English tightheads and is playing at a standard where he’d be a capable international. With our 1st and 2nd choice tightheads out, I doubt that we’ll get a much better opportunity to see whether he’s up to scratch.

The reason I’d start him and have Cole on the bench is that if it turns out that Heyes isn’t ready yet and is getting handily beaten in scrums, we know that at the very least Cole can come on and secure the scrum, which I don’t think can necessarily be said of Williams. This way around, we find out early if Heyes is up to standard and can easily fix the issue if he’s not by bringing on Cole, rather than being stuck with a tighthead who isn’t a good enough scrummager for the last 20-30 minutes with no way of replacing him. Plus, Cole’s likely mentored Heyes through his entire Leicester 1st XV career; it makes sense to have him do it at international level as well.
Williams is still a lot more solid than Cole. Williams problem is that outside the scrum he doesn’t seem to offer what you’d want from a top international. I don’t think anyone had scrum concerns with Williams so Cole can stay in retirement where he belongs.
 

Old Hooker

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Williams is still a lot more solid than Cole. Williams problem is that outside the scrum he doesn’t seem to offer what you’d want from a top international. I don’t think anyone had scrum concerns with Williams so Cole can stay in retirement where he belongs.
Maybe not world class but if he’s solid in the scrum I’ll take that every day of the week.

Far bigger issues to worry about than a prop who can scrummage but isn’t fly half material.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Looks like the Bath outbreak was actually false positives, so Stuart (/JJ/Watson/Underhill) should be available

Stuart/Williams is a decent enough tighthead duo for one game - especially if we can glue a mullet wig on Stuart and get his pre-haircut form back
 

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Daily Mail reckon Randall is in the squad
 
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