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England Rugby 2020/21 Thread

Reiser99

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Completely agree with you,
But I also think EJ is the kind of guy to shitcan you if you go against his plan - it's not quite the same but he pulled Burrell off the pitch after about 20mins, before, and then never played him again. He's obviously go no real qualms with holding a grudge for not doing what he wants.
Agree there as well. I imagine that's one of the reasons good players are either dropped or not picked. They don't stick/support his system.
 

living sacrifice

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OK - but that’s very different to what you said previously ... if that had been your original post, I would have agreed with you.
Sorry I should have been clearer. Not enough time to type out proper posts when trying to either work or drink wine.
 

TBeastT

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Completely agree with you,
But I also think EJ is the kind of guy to shitcan you if you go against his plan - it's not quite the same but he pulled Burrell off the pitch after about 20mins, before, and then never played him again. He's obviously go no real qualms with holding a grudge for not doing what he wants.
Think it’s fairly well known that he canned Care immediately after he questioned Eddie on a few things about the Japan game in 2018. Wiggy completed the tournament despite having had no previous involvement and Heinz was taken to the World Cup. I rate EJ but he clearly doesn’t want people questioning him or his plans.
 

Old Hooker

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Think it’s fairly well known that he canned Care immediately after he questioned Eddie on a few things about the Japan game in 2018. Wiggy completed the tournament despite having had no previous involvement and Heinz was taken to the World Cup. I rate EJ but he clearly doesn’t want people questioning him or his plans.

Nor does Donald Trump or Boris Johnson. No boss in the history of anything ever got the best out of their people by creating that kind of environment. Set the framework and empower the people to think for themselves and challenge you. Probably helps explain why we have such a leadership vacuum in the team.

In today’s Sunday Times in one breath Jones insists he is not in the business of giving out caps, in the next he’s talking about playing nine forwards against Georgia with Earl possibly in the backs, or even Thorley supplementing the pack. Fine line between genius and madness.

I think the only issue with our pack is peoples obsessions with prioritising "nice to haves" over players core roles - i.e. wanting props who can throw 20m out the back offloads over props who can scrummage, not caring about a hookers lineout ability, wanting lineout specialists in the backrow etc.

Absolutely. And while it’s easy to point at Sinckler and Mako’s scrummaging or Lawes playing at 6, I also think Itoje is part of the problem. Not because he’s a bad player, he clearly isn’t, but because of his style of play and how his skills complement those around him.

Several of us on here felt that Kruis was our premier lock. Not a highlight reel player, but the team just seemed to be better with him in it. Why? Great in the line out, but mainly because he was a naturally big, powerful bloke who threw his weight around in the tight exchanges doing all the unglamorous work that enables others to play - some would say those are the real core duties of the lock. Itoje on the other hand is a little smaller and plays much more like an auxiliary back rower - fantastic at it, but is that actually what we need from our locks, especially when our front rowers all have tendencies to play a bit loose and aren’t consistently good in the scrum? Of course everyone’s got to do a bit of everything now, but with some proper flankers who are excellent at the breakdown those skills are a little less critical in others.

Our front 5 doesn’t have the balance right between piano players and piano shifters. My default fantasy locks are Kruis and his twIn brother, but it’s all about balance. If Stuart turns into the player I think he can and he’s paired with Marler then our front row suddenly looks a lot stronger in the scrum and both play a more traditional tighter game in the loose. You can then be a bit more relaxed about the lock pairing. Different question if you persist with Mako and Sinckler as starting props.
 

FLOBALOB

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Nor does Donald Trump or Boris Johnson. No boss in the history of anything ever got the best out of their people by creating that kind of environment. Set the framework and empower the people to think for themselves and challenge you. Probably helps explain why we have such a leadership vacuum in the team.

In today’s Sunday Times in one breath Jones insists he is not in the business of giving out caps, in the next he’s talking about playing nine forwards against Georgia with Earl possibly in the backs, or even Thorley supplementing the pack. Fine line between genius and madness.

Tom Dunns 30 sec cameo (and all other late 70 odd min substitutions) are exactly that .
 

Jashay

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Our front 5 doesn’t have the balance right between piano players and piano shifters. My default fantasy locks are Kruis and his twIn brother, but it’s all about balance. If Stuart turns into the player I think he can and he’s paired with Marler then our front row suddenly looks a lot stronger in the scrum and both play a more traditional tighter game in the loose. You can then be a bit more relaxed about the lock pairing. Different question if you persist with Mako and Sinckler as starting props.

I always thought piano players were the backs, so the mental image of May as a lock really caught me off guard!

I did like the look of Stuart against Italy. If Marler re-retires, who would be your choice of piano shifter for loosehead? And who would be your ideal Kruis replacement?
 

Old Hooker

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I always thought piano players were the backs, so the mental image of May as a lock really caught me off guard!

I did like the look of Stuart against Italy. If Marler re-retires, who would be your choice of piano shifter for loosehead? And who would be your ideal Kruis replacement?
Marler’s only 30. If his head’s in the right place he can make the next RWC. Genge would have to be the next cab off the rank - he doesn’t always get his scrummaging right, but when he does he’s very good and I love the way he tears about the place, providing some of the aggression we sometimes lack.

Lock wise, Launch is in form, experienced and is just the heavy duty kind of lock that we need, full stop, but esp if being by paired with a more athletic type - maybe not quite as stellar in the line out, but more than capable and has really seemed to grow into his leadership role at Pests. Isiekwe’s even bigger and is great in the line out with a solid all round game that he can add frills to over time.

Hill’s a more athletic type, but I really think you need at least one heavyweight bruiser in the engine room. I doubt Skelton would ever have won any plyometric tests, but just look at how Sarries got him fit and then harnessed his raw power to the benefit of the team. He was outstanding and probably at a higher level than when he was playing internationally.

Thought Attwood should have won far more caps than he did.
 

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I’n a big Underhill fan, but in terms of balance of skills, Curry, Willis and Dombrandt would cover all the bases for me (granted 2 of them are utterly unproven internationally). Earl or Simmonds to bench. I don’t particularly want my back rowers smashing down brick walls - leave that to the front 5 which I would really like to see powered up. Whole different debate that sadly my 10.00 meeting is going to get in the way of!
Interested to know who you pick to beef up our tight 5?
 

klitarris

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Marler’s only 30. If his head’s in the right place he can make the next RWC. Genge would have to be the next cab off the rank - he doesn’t always get his scrummaging right, but when he does he’s very good and I love the way he tears about the place, providing some of the aggression we sometimes lack.

Lock wise, Launch is in form, experienced and is just the heavy duty kind of lock that we need, full stop, but esp if being by paired with a more athletic type - maybe not quite as stellar in the line out, but more than capable and has really seemed to grow into his leadership role at Pests. Isiekwe’s even bigger and is great in the line out with a solid all round game that he can add frills to over time.

Hill’s a more athletic type, but I really think you need at least one heavyweight bruiser in the engine room. I doubt Skelton would ever have won any plyometric tests, but just look at how Sarries got him fit and then harnessed his raw power to the benefit of the team. He was outstanding and probably at a higher level than when he was playing internationally.

Thought Attwood should have won far more caps than he did.
100% agree, I have always wondered why he didn't get more caps.

I also agree that Kruis was our best lock - certainly not the flashiest, but solid, reliable, never seemed to have a bad game and appeared to add some much needed leadership on the field. Also, as the poster pointed out, the team seemed better and more balanced with him in. For me the last few years have always been a case of Kruis and Itoje or Lawes in the second row. It's a real shame he has moved to Japan.
 

living sacrifice

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Just realised the England games are on Amazon prime ffs. So now to watch rugby I need BT sport, sky sports and Amazon prime.
Just stupid
 

The_Blindside

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And student discount is available on prime if you have a NUS card. Got 6 months free with mine.
 

BPM

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100% agree, I have always wondered why he didn't get more caps.

I also agree that Kruis was our best lock - certainly not the flashiest, but solid, reliable, never seemed to have a bad game and appeared to add some much needed leadership on the field. Also, as the poster pointed out, the team seemed better and more balanced with him in. For me the last few years have always been a case of Kruis and Itoje or Lawes in the second row. It's a real shame he has moved to Japan.
Kruis isn’t lost to England. His deal isn’t long term and I fully expect him to come back to Saracens when they inevitably return to the Premiership.

He’ll be 33 come 2023 which is by no means too old for a lock, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him go to a third RWC.
 

Tigs Man

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Give me more.
Genge at 13
Farrell at 6

 

living sacrifice

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I remember slating Jones on my own two weeks ago, now you all will join my cause!!!!! Jones is a knob!!!!!! Come on chant with me.

Ill go lay down now.
 

BPM

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Let’s see once a side is named.
 

Tigs Man

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Honestly I don't see too much of a problem training some players too cover other positions.
Not use them as starters but to have them on the bench with that knowledge is IMO handy.

Don't want another May situation.
 

Which Tyler

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Honestly I don't see too much of a problem training some players too cover other positions.
Not use them as starters but to have them on the bench with that knowledge is IMO handy.

Don't want another May situation.
It's almost like... learning from amprevious mistake. :eek:
 

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