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EPS and Saxons squads announced

Haskell in the Saxons yet Dowson still in the EPS? Rrrrriiiiigggghhhhtttt.....

Also what the hell are Mouritz Botha and Matt Stevens still doing in the EPS?
Wouldn't have Turner-Hall there either, to be honest.

Also Gaskell in the Saxons - wwwwhhhhyyyy? If they're wanting a token Northerner at least have Kearnan Myall, he's 10x better than Gaskell.



Also: Louis Deacon is still about?!
 
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TRF_Olyy said:
Haskell in the Saxons yet Dowson still in the EPS? Rrrrriiiiigggghhhhtttt.....

Also what the hell are Mouritz Botha and Matt Stevens still doing in the EPS?
Wouldn't have Turner-Hall there either, to be honest.

Also Gaskell in the Saxons - wwwwhhhhyyyy? If they're wanting a token Northerner at least have Kearnan Myall, he's 10x better than Gaskell.

Also: Louis Deacon is still about?!
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Yeah Haskell/Dowson was the only call which was plain wrong. The others I can accept on some basis or other.

I would have gone for George Lowe instead of Jordan Turner-Hall.

I can accept Mouritz Botha on the grounds that few of the mid-week locks really impressed enough to replace him: Launchbury didn't go, Robson didn't impress me too much, Kitchener was handy enough around the field. In general the Saxon locks don't have me that excited besides Launchbury (Kitcheners a prospect)
My hope in the next year is that Garvey or Attwood get into some form and push Botha down to the saxons.

And yeah as you say Gaskell's inclusion smacks of being 18 months behind the times. I would have likde to see Sam Jones given that spot, he's been improving with every game where Gaskell really hasn't at all.

EDIT: forgot Stevens. He's an anomaly though because he'd be one of our top 5 props if he didn't give away so many pointless penalties. His loosework is good.
 
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I'm not sure Haskell should be in the EPS, but Johnson and Dowson should not be ahead of him. Garvey should be involved. Lancaster still doesn't seem to grasp the concept that strength matters in the pack.

We have three mid-twenties journeyman wingers in the Saxons, which strikes me as stupid. Jordan Turner-Hall isn't good enough. Twelvetrees and Lowe must be happy, they're the only centres in the Saxons.

On the plus side - Gibson involved, Launchbury involved, Miller involved, May involved, Kvesic and Ford straight in - kvetching is balanced by happiness.

edit: Clark should not be involved, regardless of talent. ******* on the steps of Queens in Leeds should not be more worthy of censure than a deliberate and malicious assault on another professional.
 
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Not sure WHY Haskell left out seems strange to me -definitely something in the background doesn't add up. I can ONLY assume he things we got to many similar players like him on the flanks, and adequate cover. Lancaster's arrogance is sometimes annoying I wish he explain why.

I am happy tom Johnson got included I watched the first 2 tests in my day off on Monday, and his work-rate and rugby intelligence ( look carefully he was the only one who went on the left to cover the quick ball and nobody else had the sense to do that and he was left for dust by a quick/world class winger nobody backed him up, hence his missed tackles) he was everywhere and his VERY quick to the breakdown and in the first test him and Robshaw were very sharp in this area.

Also I am happy Parling getting recognition he is a great player the silent assassin.

I am still suspicious of what the ideal Number 6 and 7 would be. Is Wood better then Johnson and Haskell? Can Lawes give us the edge? I don't know I personally think Wood and Lawes need to get in form before they get ahead of the current match playing team in SA.
 
mstar said:
Not sure WHY Haskell left out seems strange to me -definitely something in the background doesn't add up. I can ONLY assume he things we got to many similar players like him on the flanks, and adequate cover. Lancaster’s arrogance is sometimes annoying I wish he explain why.

I am happy tom Johnson got included I watched the first 2 tests in my day off on Monday, and his work-rate and rugby intelligence ( look carefully he was the only one who went on the left to cover the quick ball and nobody else had the sense to do that and he was left for dust by a quick/world class winger nobody backed him up, hence his missed tackles) he was everywhere and his VERY quick to the breakdown and in the first test him and Robshaw were very sharp in this area.

Also I am happy Parling getting recognition he is a great player the silent assassin.

I am still suspicious of what the ideal Number 6 and 7 would be. Is Wood better then Johnson and Haskell? Can Lawes give us the edge? I don’t know I personally think Wood and Lawes need to get in form before they get ahead of the current match playing team in SA.
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I know I'm banging on about this but Johnson missed a whoel load of tackle, the most out of any English or South African player in the series(7)
 
Yeah i think Johnson lacks physicality for an international 6 tbh. He's got great enthusiasm and pace but he hardly makes any yards whilst carrying and misses a lot of tackles. But i suppose he was against the most physical side in the world! Maybe he'll do better against Australia and NZ.

However i also think that Haskell is slightly overrated. For someone his size he should really be playing like Stephen Ferris or Jerome Kaino. But instead he goes to ground way too easily and doesn't make big hits, his clearing out could be better as well. I believe he could be one of the best 6's in NH and world rugby but he really needs to work on his game and try to become more of an enforcer, he certainly has the size for it!
 
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welshglory said:
Yeah i think Johnson lacks physicality for an international 6 tbh. He's got great enthusiasm and pace but he hardly makes any yards whilst carrying and misses a lot of tackles. But i suppose he was against the most physical side in the world! Maybe he'll do better against Australia and NZ.

However i also think that Haskell is slightly overrated. For someone his size he should really be playing like Stephen Ferris or Jerome Kaino. But instead he goes to ground way too easily and doesn't make big hits, his clearing out could be better as well. I believe he could be one of the best 6's in NH and world rugby but he really needs to work on his game and try to become more of an enforcer, he certainly has the size for it!
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I see what you mean but Haskell plays a very different game to Ferris. You might not expect this from him, but he's actually a very measured player. If you watch him for the Highlanders he doesn't always fling himself at breakdowns or rucks, he waits to be sure that he's needed. This is why he's been identified as someone who can also play 7, because he's very often in the right place at the right time if the ball squirts out, or he spots an isolated opposition player. He wins lots of turnovers that way. He's also there in defence if the other team get quick ball out of a ruck.
The other thing is that he has good hands for a forward and some pace on his feet. He's a good link-man between the lumpy tight forwards and the backs of any team.
 
Problem is, Haskell would be a hell of a lot more effective if he believed his job did hitting rucks as hard as possibleinstead of turning up to inspect it. It's one of my remaining gripes about him. He tries to be the intelligent player, but doesn't quite have the brains for it - just smash the ********, it's what you're good for. Although keep up the good offloads. He's given some very good somes recently.
 
Peat said:
edit: Clark should not be involved, regardless of talent. ******* on the steps of Queens in Leeds should not be more worthy of censure than a deliberate and malicious assault on another professional.
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Couldn't agree more, the bloke shouldn't represent England at any level and I'm amazed that the RFU gave him such a lenient sentence.

HenryChinaski said:
I know I'm banging on about this but Johnson missed a whoel load of tackle, the most out of any English or South African player in the series(7)
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I felt like I was banging on about this all series! It doesn't matter if your loose play resembles Richard Hill, Richie McCaw, Phil Waugh and Zinzan Brooke all rolled into one, international flankers can not miss the number of tackles Johnson missed routinely in that test series. On that note, Robshaw missed 4 in the 2nd test and that really shouldn't be happening. I was quite impressed with Haskell's defensive contribution when he came on and I'm surprised he's not been included, but he's got a few months to stake his claim prior to the November.

And I think I'm as bemused as everyone else about Dowson!
 
TimQ said:
Couldn't agree more, the bloke shouldn't represent England at any level and I'm amazed that the RFU gave him such a lenient sentence.



I felt like I was banging on about this all series! It doesn't matter if your loose play resembles Richard Hill, Richie McCaw, Phil Waugh and Zinzan Brooke all rolled into one, international flankers can not miss the number of tackles Johnson missed routinely in that test series. On that note, Robshaw missed 4 in the 2nd test and that really shouldn't be happening. I was quite impressed with Haskell's defensive contribution when he came on and I'm surprised he's not been included, but he's got a few months to stake his claim prior to the November.
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AGree about Johnson. Re Haskell I'd be very surprised if Lancasterhasn't had a word in Haskells ear to remind him hes thereabouts and will be in the mix for November.
Fair enough about haskells ruck 'inspection' Peat, but if Jamie Joseph Stuart Lancaster or any of his other previous coaches had wanted him to play a different game they would have flagged that up with him.

Out of interest Peat, who would you have gone for instead of Johnson/Dowson/Hask?
 
Regarding Johnson, he was thrown in against a top top team and performed well.
Give him some slack he can only get better, yes he made mistakes but least he gave a good account of himself. How many internationals we saw go into the starting line-up and don’t perform? Let’s see how he performs in the tests and 6N. I will reserve judgement until then.

I have to confess I haven’t been watching the Highlanders where Haskell is playing BUT isn't that competition higher than the English premiership games others been playing???? Not sure what Lancaster been watching but I heard good reviews from Haskell in those games.
Also, Haskell in the 3rd test was immense I still find it baffling how he doesn't deserve to be in the Elite squad. His physicality equalised the SA.

Question is who is the best Number 7 robshaw has performed well but I gather Wood is probably more natural 7?
 
Wood probably won't even be back from injury then. I suspect Haskell will be called up to replace him.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Out of interest Peat, who would you have gone for instead of Johnson/Dowson/Hask?
Click to expand...

The defence refers my honourable colleague to the previously stated sentiment

Peat said:
I'm not sure Haskell should be in the EPS, but Johnson and Dowson should not be ahead of him.
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I have issues with Haskell's play (although I accept he's probably doing what his coaches tell him) but he is an international calibre athlete at 6 and 8 which neither of Johnson or Dowson are and their superior link play certainly doesn't compensate for that at 6. Not least because Robshaw's a lot like that, but better. We don't have anyone offering what Haskell does. And none of them should be at 7!
 
*coughCarl Fearnscough*

:D

I like Haskell, though.
Must admit I'm a big fan of Tom Johnson as well. I hadn't realised he missed so many tackles, however, but his work rate was the best of the England pack (with Robshaw, followed by Cole) - he was everywhere, and was always chasing the kicks/rushing the kicker.

With Wood coming in for Haskell it doesn't really help our lack of big ball carriers in the backrow. We've got Morgan and Waldrom but only one of those can be on the pitch at the same time, and with Hartley being fairly lightweight it means we've got 3 out of 8 (1, 3, 8) as our big carriers, which ain't great for an entire forwards pack. Hopefully Lawes can hit good form for the AIs and overtake Botha.

We'll be cracking at the breakdown with Wood and Robshaw on the same side, though :lol: (presumably Robshaw at 7 and Wood at 6, as the RFU like to be a bit.....zany).





Hopefully there's a nasty bout of lurgy in October and we lose all of our 6.5s and David Seymour can be called in to the squad :p
Then again he'd probably be played at 6 and Fearns at 7 or something :lol:


Apparently Hendre Fourie wasn't too far out of Lancaster's mind (he was told he'd tour South Africa, before tearing his pec playing for Sale) - despite not being English I'd love to see him in there as he's like a 7-0.5 (???) as he's a great 7 but can also play like a physical 6 as well.
 
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Here's a thing - who will be playing 8 for Northampton next season? I don't think they signed a replacement for Wilson and given they've got some very good 7s coming through, its possible they'll move Wood there... Dowson seems more likely, but he's not exactly a long term option. I think in the next couple of seasons, Wood will find himself at 6 or 8 most of the time.
 

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