Finally A Good Idea

[TheSaffycen]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45956402

The next three English domestic rugby union seasons will include in-season breaks, with players limited to a maximum of 35 matches per campaign.

The measures, beginning 2019-20, are designed to protect players during a demanding schedule that includes the 2019 World Cup and 2021 British and Irish Lions tour of South Africa.

However, the domestic season has been extended, with 2019-20 running from 21 September to 20 June, although a "mandatory five-week post-season rest" period is also in place.

 

[Scotty]

Good to see it gping the right direction, 35 matches per season yes? Any limit on minutes?
Because 35x80= 2800 minutes.

Granted thats maximum but say farrell for instance EJ wont rest him so he will play 3 summer tour, 5 6N and 4 AI games on a non wc or lions year. Thats 960 mins right there just international. Plus prem games and Europe. Which sarries could reach the final in both. Its still alot of minutes. But i suppose that means forced rest in the prem and cant afford him to waste games on him in prem cup so it is in the right direction.

Fan of the mandertory 5 week break though.

Also how does this compare to pro 14 clubs?

 

[MikeTheNative]

Good to see it gping the right direction, 35 matches per season yes? Any limit on minutes?
Because 35x80= 2800 minutes.

Granted thats maximum but say farrell for instance EJ wont rest him so he will play 3 summer tour, 5 6N and 4 AI games on a non wc or lions year. Thats 960 mins right there just international. Plus prem games and Europe. Which sarries could reach the final in both. Its still alot of minutes. But i suppose that means forced rest in the prem and cant afford him to waste games on him in prem cup so it is in the right direction.

Fan of the mandertory 5 week break though.

Also how does this compare to pro 14 clubs?

Wales players on NDC can't play more than 31 games a year so it's a bit less. Not sure on the Irish players but some like Sexton probably play a bit less than that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I reckon Irish players are playing about 25-28 games if they remain relatively uninjured.

 

[Every Time Ref]

According to the Guardian report:

"England players will play a maximum of 30 full games per season, reduced from 32, and be confined to a limit of 35 match involvements of 20 minutes or more"

So taking that at face value, the maximum involvement would be 30x80 + 5x79 = 2795 minutes...? That's not including theoretically infinite 19-min involvements

It would seem sensible to put a time limit on a sub appearance wouldn't it? So fir example 60+ minutes becomes officially a full game

 

[ratsapprentice]

5 week off-season... whoah...

 

[TheSaffycen]

Not perfect by any means, but steps into the right direction perhaps?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

How many players played in more than 35 games last season?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

A step in the right direction but they really need to properly integrate internationals and development tournaments into 1 policy. The chart showing minutes played by Lions players was shocking, the English clubs just didn't give a **** how much they wore the players out and it shows. Players who are internationals need to have fewer club games and it needs to be judged by total time played rather than just games. Also number of consecutive minutes played should have a maximum and finally there should be designated development games where only players below a certain numbers of caps, age and minutes played can play.

It's just staggering that there are those high up who still think putting top players through endless games is the way to ensure the future of the sport. As for those who ask about larger squads, learn from the Irish. It's not that it can't be done, just that most clubs won't do it. Get proper academies and utilise them to fill out the squad rather than trying to fill your entire squad with expensive players. Eventually things will balance out and become the new norm with the benefit of more rested internationals, hopefully larger but less expensive squads and greater development of young players.

I just hope this isn't used as a justification to then not continue developing. The season doesn't need to be made longer to accommodate the breaks.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

it's kind of hard to succumb to all the people wanting a salary cap and less foreign players while also ensuring that your international players aren't overworked.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Grauniad's take.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/23/storm-clouds-rugby-union-calender-lions

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Some people have such an romantisied version of the lions tour on social media.

The same people who will talk about player welfare seem to be the same ones saying who this shouldn't have a bearing on the lions tour.

The lions doesn't bring in enough interest as it is take away the England players from the tour and it will be pretty poor but hey the clubs that have to fund for playing rugby's week in and week out should bend over backwards for the once every 4 years tour that bring some exposure only a fraction of what International rugby's brings.....

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Some people have such an romantisied version of the lions tour on social media.

The same people who will talk about player welfare seem to be the same ones saying who this shouldn't have a bearing on the lions tour.

The lions doesn't bring in enough interest as it is take away the England players from the tour and it will be pretty poor but hey the clubs that have to fund for playing rugby's week in and week out should bend over backwards for the once every 4 years tour that bring some exposure only a fraction of what International rugby's brings.....

In all seriousness though it simply must go, look at the last squad, it has two premature retirees and a handful of lads who have hardly played 80 minutes of rugby since, and only now are we seeing some guys like Jack McGrath and Robbie Henshaw start looking their best again. (I'm sure there's more examples but these are just close to home) If the Lions really have to stay they'd better get creative with because the only way I can see it working without harming players is in place of the 6 nations and I'd rather **** in my hands and clap than lose the 6n.

Further edit: I also think English clubs have to appreciate that a fresh back up is as good as a wrecked starter, the pro14 sides stagger their rotation which gives players their needed rest and still fields strong sides. They also throw the odd away game, everyone will have their own opinions on that but in a season where there's too many games that are possible to play it's not the world's biggest sin imo, and its not routine like it used to be in France.

 

[Amiga500]

it's kind of hard to succumb to all the people wanting a salary cap and less foreign players while also ensuring that your international players aren't overworked.

Its quite easy - at least in theory.

You have a proper youth system.

Wages are, as usual, a case of supply and demand. If you have a system producing loads of top quality young players, then you don't need to pay top-dollar for acquisitions to fill your first team. You have a squad backboned by your own system - which will inevitably mean much smaller wages - and then you add a few world class imports to that.

Also having the trust in youth helps - instead of flogging the dead donkey, the team would rotate a bit and you'd find their overall points total better than playing the same 15 week-in, week-out.

I don't believe any of the Irish provinces spend more on wages than the top English clubs. Thus there is already hard evidence that it can be done.


Of course, in practice it is much harder than just theorising!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Its quite easy - at least in theory.

You have a proper youth system.

Wages are, as usual, a case of supply and demand. If you have a system producing loads of top quality young players, then you don't need to pay top-dollar for acquisitions to fill your first team. You have a squad backboned by your own system - which will inevitably mean much smaller wages - and then you add a few world class imports to that.

Also having the trust in youth helps - instead of flogging the dead donkey, the team would rotate a bit and you'd find their overall points total better than playing the same 15 week-in, week-out.

I don't believe any of the Irish provinces spend more on wages than the top English clubs. Thus there is already hard evidence that it can be done.


Of course, in practice it is much harder than just theorising!

Leinster's schools can only do so much, don't make them provide for England too or you might find Gonzaga boys playing pro rugby, nobody wants that.

As for the bolded, it's true but they're also paying their players less to do less. I reckon that's why we managed to get guys like Lowe and Tomane in, one has arthritis and needs to be managed and the other had been flogged in France and wanted out. Most players will sign the bigger contract thinking that it won't be them who loses 2-3 years of their career because their overplayed, it'll be the other guy signing.

What I think is certain is that you're better off having a starter on 400k and a back up on 100k than one guy on 600k. Eventually I think the prem clubs will start looking to the pro14 and figuring out why most of the clubs are doing more with less. (Leinster are the exception here, they have more than most but I still think they've got more bang for their buck since O'Connor's departure than any English side considering the monumental rebuild that was required after that fella had two years ruining the club)

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Its quite easy - at least in theory.

You have a proper youth system.

Wages are, as usual, a case of supply and demand. If you have a system producing loads of top quality young players, then you don't need to pay top-dollar for acquisitions to fill your first team. You have a squad backboned by your own system - which will inevitably mean much smaller wages - and then you add a few world class imports to that.

Also having the trust in youth helps - instead of flogging the dead donkey, the team would rotate a bit and you'd find their overall points total better than playing the same 15 week-in, week-out.

I don't believe any of the Irish provinces spend more on wages than the top English clubs. Thus there is already hard evidence that it can be done.


Of course, in practice it is much harder than just theorising!

It's a lot harder when you have 12 clubs to fill.

It's also a lot harder to keep up to European standard.

I think the English (obviously not you in this case) who think that they can produce enough talent for 12 teams with domestic lads are showing their arrogance.

 

[Amiga500]

It's a lot harder when you have 12 clubs to fill.

It's also a lot harder to keep up to European standard.

I think the English (obviously not you in this case) who think that they can produce enough talent for 12 teams with domestic lads are showing their arrogance.

What do you mean? Look at the respective playing populations.

Ireland has a population of around 6 million which we'll simplistically say goes around 4 squads (1.5m /squad). England has a population of around 55 million among 12 clubs (4.6m/club).

The only reason they aren't producing enough talent for 12 teams is their own ineptitude.