France vs New Zealand

[I Bleed Black]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> Maybe we should do like the NH and start sending out 2nd string teams to play everyone so they don't have the satisfaction of facing a full strength All Blacks. [/b]

Last autumn a totally different team played against Wales than it did against England, is that not true?
You know, to be truthful (thanks to your "rotation policy") we have no idea if we've ever faced a full strength all blacks team anyway. I don't think half of you guys even know if you've fielded a full strength All Blacks team.
Sure, in your eyes your strongest team may have played before now, but i can't honestly decide whether Graham Henry knew if he'd gotten is 1st XV down.
[/b][/quote]

Considering that Henry left out most of his first choice centers, opting instead to play a utility back instead, could you seriously say, with a hand on your heart that the strongest All Black side played against France?

If a team is being constantly rotated with no All Black team the same as the last, all the way up to when they are knocked out of the World Cup, does that show the stregnth in depth or rather a certain lack of trust exhibited by the coach in his players and as a result a lack of confidence about whether or not he actually knows what his first choice XV is?

Did Graham Henry even have such a concept as a "first choice XV"?

As for England vs France. At the end of the England game I did say to my French friend and boasted with a chuckle "Well! Thats our quota of wins filled for this year, give those Argies hell!" As long as the best team wins (quite easy to work out considering England's variable form this season) I'm a happy chappy.
[/b][/quote]

I honestly think Henry was too nice a guy and felt he had to keep giving each member of the squad a run, as if he didnt want any of them feeling upset or left-out of the squad and becoming a fringe player. I think he did everything right in terms of rotation for building the squad, except he should have picked 22 players from the second game and stuck to it - the balance of the squad is purely for injuries.

I hope we build a similar way next time - don't think Graham went too far wrong - After all the coach can only do so much on the day.

Suggestion to moderators

We need to shut some of these NZ threads down and concentrate on the Rugby again - too much ref slagging and whinging going on. May even help some Kiwi fans move on.

 

[fcukernaut]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> Maybe we should do like the NH and start sending out 2nd string teams to play everyone so they don't have the satisfaction of facing a full strength All Blacks. [/b]

Last autumn a totally different team played against Wales than it did against England, is that not true?
You know, to be truthful (thanks to your "rotation policy") we have no idea if we've ever faced a full strength all blacks team anyway. I don't think half of you guys even know if you've fielded a full strength All Blacks team.
Sure, in your eyes your strongest team may have played before now, but i can't honestly decide whether Graham Henry knew if he'd gotten is 1st XV down.
[/b][/quote]

Considering that Henry left out most of his first choice centers, opting instead to play a utility back instead, could you seriously say, with a hand on your heart that the strongest All Black side played against France?

If a team is being constantly rotated with no All Black team the same as the last, all the way up to when they are knocked out of the World Cup, does that show the stregnth in depth or rather a certain lack of trust exhibited by the coach in his players and as a result a lack of confidence about whether or not he actually knows what his first choice XV is?

Did Graham Henry even have such a concept as a "first choice XV"?

As for England vs France. At the end of the England game I did say to my French friend and boasted with a chuckle "Well! Thats our quota of wins filled for this year, give those Argies hell!" As long as the best team wins (quite easy to work out considering England's variable form this season) I'm a happy chappy.
[/b][/quote]

I honestly think Henry was too nice a guy and felt he had to keep giving each member of the squad a run, as if he didnt want any of them feeling upset or left-out of the squad and becoming a fringe player. I think he did everything right in terms of rotation for building the squad, except he should have picked 22 players from the second game and stuck to it - the balance of the squad is purely for injuries.

I hope we build a similar way next time - don't think Graham went too far wrong - After all the coach can only do so much on the day.

Suggestion to moderators

We need to shut some of these NZ threads down and concentrate on the Rugby again - too much ref slagging and whinging going on. May even help some Kiwi fans move on. [/b][/quote]



I think Henry had his core starting lineup (Woodcock, Haymen, Williams, Collins, McCaw, So'oialo, Kelleher, Carter, Rocokoco, McCalister) and then filled in players around them, who they felt were the best matchup against the opposition on the day. As you would often find Oliver start when New Zealand were playing a good scrumaging opposition. Same thing with the Jack/Robinson spot. It was apparent that France were playing for territory and lineouts so, they chose the better jumper in Robinson. Sivivatu was selected because of his great play against the French last year. Mils was picked because they had little confidence in Smith or Toeava, and as a default MacDonald was picked for fullback(though I believe Mac and Mils were neck and neck for selection).

 

[I Bleed Black]

I think Henry had his core starting lineup (Woodcock, Haymen, Williams, Collins, McCaw, So'oialo, Kelleher, Carter, Rocokoco, McCalister) and then filled in players around them, who they felt were the best matchup against the opposition on the day. As you would often find Oliver start when New Zealand were playing a good scrumaging opposition. Same thing with the Jack/Robinson spot. It was apparent that France were playing for territory and lineouts so, they chose the better jumper in Robinson. Sivivatu was selected because of his great play against the French last year. Mils was picked because they had little confidence in Smith or Toeava, and as a default MacDonald was picked for fullback(though I believe Mac and Mils were neck and neck for selection).
[/b]

I see what your saying - but I dont see how he could pick Sivi just because he played well last year against the same team, and in turn leave out another in form winger.

After being at the game, Sivi can be a very lazy runner and he lacks a sense of urgency. Although he does have brilliant moments.

Anyway is consigned to the history books now.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
I've been avoiding this thread but i simply can't, it's just so damn funny (im mean the comments ). 4 years with the same coach, players taken out for half of the S14 to be conditioned for the WC, Prime Minister of NZ comes like the day before to gain support for the All Blacks, the list goes on and on. I would be ticked off as well but you people are going overboard.



I watched the whole game twice and the 2nd half 3 times, it was fun everytime, and overall IMO the ref was fair. He made some wack calls but it went both ways (finally a ref that goes both ways! no pun intended ). There are whole bunch of other points that I don't remember now, but I gotta say I don't see this as the HUGE upset everyone is making it.



Well done France
[/b]

Well that makes one of you so far. Would love to see you Saffo's take a loss as degrading as this, we would be saying the exact same as you and you'd be just as desperate as us in terms of looking for excuses. [/b][/quote]



Definately not. If we get beaten by Argentina on Sunday I will congratulate them on a game well played. There is many times in the past that I felt like SA got a raw deal but sucked it up.



There are no excuses to make about the Kiwis loss you were beaten by the better team on the day simple!!!



You also stated that most Saffa's think that we are the better team but that is not the case, as SA fans have more pain than Kiwi's when it comes to losing, we have lost alot more games over the years than the Kiwis Therefore we have to accept defeat which helps us to realise that winning is not a right but something you earn.



Will you ever accept this loss? If not your pain will last alot longer. Come on congratulate the French you will feel bettter





[/b][/quote]



Interesting choice to describe your loss. "Degrading" is a strong word to use.



France has been a major rugby power for a number of years now and I don't think your comment does them justice.



I'm struggling to understand how you can insult the French team like that. Do you think you are SO high and mighty?



...Unbelievable

 

[nam97]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
I've been avoiding this thread but i simply can't, it's just so damn funny (im mean the comments ). 4 years with the same coach, players taken out for half of the S14 to be conditioned for the WC, Prime Minister of NZ comes like the day before to gain support for the All Blacks, the list goes on and on. I would be ticked off as well but you people are going overboard.



I watched the whole game twice and the 2nd half 3 times, it was fun everytime, and overall IMO the ref was fair. He made some wack calls but it went both ways (finally a ref that goes both ways! no pun intended ). There are whole bunch of other points that I don't remember now, but I gotta say I don't see this as the HUGE upset everyone is making it.



Well done France
[/b]

Well that makes one of you so far. Would love to see you Saffo's take a loss as degrading as this, we would be saying the exact same as you and you'd be just as desperate as us in terms of looking for excuses. [/b][/quote]



Definately not. If we get beaten by Argentina on Sunday I will congratulate them on a game well played. There is many times in the past that I felt like SA got a raw deal but sucked it up.



There are no excuses to make about the Kiwis loss you were beaten by the better team on the day simple!!!



You also stated that most Saffa's think that we are the better team but that is not the case, as SA fans have more pain than Kiwi's when it comes to losing, we have lost alot more games over the years than the Kiwis Therefore we have to accept defeat which helps us to realise that winning is not a right but something you earn.



Will you ever accept this loss? If not your pain will last alot longer. Come on congratulate the French you will feel bettter





[/b][/quote]



Interesting choice to describe your loss. "Degrading" is a strong word to use.



France has been a major rugby power for a number of years now and I don't think your comment does them justice.



I'm struggling to understand how you can insult the French team like that. Do you think you are SO high and mighty?



...Unbelievable
[/b][/quote]

It's not an insult. I mean degrading in the sense that most of Kiwis had all positively (and arrogantly in a way) thought we were going to win, and in the aftermath comes a barrage of **** stirring and punishment at our own expense(and fair enough). I apologize if I sound disrespectful, it's not what I meant. France are one of the greatest teams on earth and I certainly don't feel we have a right to always beat them, and acknowledge they gutted out a brilliant win against us.
Once again, sorry to sound like prude even if it's not what I meant.

 

[legou]

Thanks for the team france ,french are so enjoy. It was a great match the blaks can have in the last minutes. I think they loose why McAllister became a yellow card.

 

[fcukernaut]

<div class='quotemain'>


I think Henry had his core starting lineup (Woodcock, Haymen, Williams, Collins, McCaw, So'oialo, Kelleher, Carter, Rocokoco, McCalister) and then filled in players around them, who they felt were the best matchup against the opposition on the day. As you would often find Oliver start when New Zealand were playing a good scrumaging opposition. Same thing with the Jack/Robinson spot. It was apparent that France were playing for territory and lineouts so, they chose the better jumper in Robinson. Sivivatu was selected because of his great play against the French last year. Mils was picked because they had little confidence in Smith or Toeava, and as a default MacDonald was picked for fullback(though I believe Mac and Mils were neck and neck for selection).
[/b]

I see what your saying - but I dont see how he could pick Sivi just because he played well last year against the same team, and in turn leave out another in form winger.

After being at the game, Sivi can be a very lazy runner and he lacks a sense of urgency. Although he does have brilliant moments.

Anyway is consigned to the history books now. [/b][/quote]



Hey, I never said I thought it was the right decision, I'm just trying to explain why the Cartel would select an out of form player instead of another who is playing some of the best rugby of his career. I truely think Howlett would have had a much greater effect on the game. But that's not hard because Sivi went AWOL on Saturday.

 

[Wellycane]

Thanks for the team france ,french are so enjoy. It was a great match the blaks can have in the last minutes. I think they loose why McAllister became a yellow card. [/b]

So you're saying that the ABs lost because McAllister received a yellow card? :lol: ...ummm? what else did you see that may have caused the loss? LMFAO. You French would never admit it but obviously that's how the game goes.

 

[jawmalawm24]

IMHO Luke deserved to be sent off thou the French guy did go a bit over board but it still warranted looking at. No doubt about it I've watched it a million times and if he really didn't mean to get in the way than why did he tense up to take the impact. He wasn't standing his ground he was intentionally getting in the way.

 

[hiclasshooka]

Aside from the first 20, when they came out firing, the ABs looked flat all game. Losing Carter was a big hit, and losing Evans rubbed salt in the wound. They should have taken a droppie in the last 5, but who would have kicked it? McAllister can't aim.

Actually, I'll amend that. The backs looked flat all game. The forwards played their guts out. They dominated the scrum and, unusually for the ABs, the lineout too. It's just that the backline (supposedly the best in the world) couldn't seem to do anything with their surfeit of possession. Whereas the French, to their credit, capitalised whenever they had a sniff of a chance.

 

[Drquinn2021]

I agree w/ hooka. Apart from a few unfortunate turnovers near the try line (which the AB's should have been able to cross) the AB forwards dominated the game. I think the All blacks are the best team in the world, but they sometimes play like they expect the opposition to really quit after the haka.

 

[eoino]

HAHAHA, I loved reading the start of this thread, for the last year the ABs have been banging on about winning the world cup, and i knew this was going to happen. Poo kiwis built their team up as if they were unbeatable, but the thing is, the ABs are no different to any other top nation, and plaese dont start excuses... its just to funny to read, my abs start to hurt im laughing so hard!

In a way it serves yous right for building up your team like that, maby yous will learn for the next world cup!

 

[Ripper]

Wow, an Irishman lecturing people not to talk their team up...

 

[Dmx#1]

IMHO Luke deserved to be sent off thou the French guy did go a bit over board but it still warranted looking at. No doubt about it I've watched it a million times and if he really didn't mean to get in the way than why did he tense up to take the impact. He wasn't standing his ground he was intentionally getting in the way.

[/b]

Bullshit. A warning and THEN a yellow card its not like th ABs were playing dirty for the whole game to deserve one. It was stupid calls like that which had a big effect and imo that was one of the main things that shifted the momentum of the game. Yellow card? GTFOH

 

[Incredible Schalk]

<div class='quotemain'> IMHO Luke deserved to be sent off thou the French guy did go a bit over board but it still warranted looking at. No doubt about it I've watched it a million times and if he really didn't mean to get in the way than why did he tense up to take the impact. He wasn't standing his ground he was intentionally getting in the way.

[/b]

Bullshit. A warning and THEN a yellow card its not like th ABs were playing dirty for the whole game to deserve one. It was stupid calls like that which had a big effect and imo that was one of the main things that shifted the momentum of the game. Yellow card? GTFOH
[/b][/quote]


But it was in the "red zone", therefore the referee didnt need to give him a warning he could just send McAlistar straight to the bin. Was still a joke decision though :ranting:

 

[An Tarbh]

as was the decision on Carter's pass to McAlister in the buildup to his try but that seems to have conveniently gone unmentioned by most, that and the fact that McAlister, man of the match according to the IRB, f***ed up the chance to win it by refusing to sit back for the drop. There's your scapegoat not Barnes or his touch judges.

 

[Dmx#1]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> IMHO Luke deserved to be sent off thou the French guy did go a bit over board but it still warranted looking at. No doubt about it I've watched it a million times and if he really didn't mean to get in the way than why did he tense up to take the impact. He wasn't standing his ground he was intentionally getting in the way.

[/b]

Bullshit. A warning and THEN a yellow card its not like th ABs were playing dirty for the whole game to deserve one. It was stupid calls like that which had a big effect and imo that was one of the main things that shifted the momentum of the game. Yellow card? GTFOH
[/b][/quote]


But it was in the "red zone", therefore the referee didnt need to give him a warning he could just send McAlistar straight to the bin. Was still a joke decision though :ranting: [/b][/quote]

Yeah so what? I couldnt say a percentage but quite often players get in the way. How many times that happen in rugby games? Where a player gets in the way of a kick, chip etc? Im not condoning it but the only reason why Luke got pinged for it was because there was a hollywood involved. It still should have been a warning. An Tarb GTFOH

 

[An Tarbh]

Such a Father Ted response there :lol: :lol: :lol: