Future International Replacements

[RAWWeyman]

Just thought it would be interesting to discuss the replacements for players coming to the ends of their careers. They don't have to be on the brink of retirement necessarily but just have to be reaching their final years as international players.

For Example:

Jonny Wilkinson
Dan Carter
Conrad Smith
Jaque Fourie
Jerome Kaino
Ma'a Nonu
Brian O'Driscoll
Richie McCaw
Jean De Villiers
Shane Williams
Radike Samo
Kieran Read
etc etc

You get the idea. Just name a player, then name the new player who will/should take their place on the international stage.

 

[Draggs]

Francois Steyn seems to be the best option to replace de Villiers. He didn't look out of place at 12, and with Taute among others coming through, he will not be needed at fullback. De Jongh seems to be the name mentioned as Fourie's replacement, but I am not too sure. In some respects I thought he looked better in 2010. His inability to pass is a major problem. We will have to see how Johann Sadie gets on at the Bulls (undoubtedly he should be a Springbok already...)

Not too sure about Shane's replacement. I think Alex Cuthbert will be our best option on the wing this year (Unless Henson or Byrne play at 15, and Halfpenny moves to the wing), but Harry Robinson could be an option in a season or two. We also have Morgan Stoddart returning to fitness and Liam Williams who has played wing before.

Rhys Priestland will most likely be our 10 for a few years, unless Hook can step up. Tovey and Biggar are both incredibly inconsistent, so I won't rule them out or include them. Matthew Morgan has had his name thrown around a bit. He has plenty of talent but I do see his size as his biggest hindrance. He looks to have bulked up a bit over the past year, and against Connaught he was getting stuck in with the tackles and looked like he was working on ripping the ball in contact. Steven Shingler could be another option. Good goal kicker, but I haven't seen too much of him since he has moved to London Irish.

We need to look at other options for Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins by the next World Cup. I like the look of Ryan Bevington. He is very much like Gethin in the loose, he just needs to work on his scrummaging. Jo Rees at the Ospreys is a pretty good prospect. Did a number on Tonga'uhia a few months back. We also have Rhodri Jones and Will-Griff John, who were involved in the U20 setup this year.

 

[Aedaphon]

Just thought it would be interesting to discuss the replacements for players coming to the ends of their careers. They don't have to be on the brink of retirement necessarily but just have to be reaching their final years as international players.

For Example:

Jonny Wilkinson
Dan Carter
Conrad Smith
Jaque Fourie
Jerome Kaino
Ma'a Nonu
Brian O'Driscoll
Richie McCaw
Jean De Villiers
Shane Williams
Radike Samo
Kieran Read
etc etc

You get the idea. Just name a player, then name the new player who will/should take their place on the international stage.

Kaino's 28 and Read's only 26 so I'd say those two have quite a few years of international rugby left in them. Brad Thorn will probably be the most missed All Black although I should probably leave that judgement to the Kiwis...

Speaking for English rugby we actually have a fair few players lining up to fill Wilkinson's boots. Toby Flood is the current fly half but George Ford is looking like he'll be pushing for the 10 shirt within a few years. Owen Farrell seems to be set at playing at centre but in terms of solid defence and an incredibly reliable boot he's already got the edge on Flood in my opinion.

Shane Williams has already tipped off George North as his successor as Welsh winger. A completely different player but (discounting injury) he'll have the 14 shirt locked down for a good few years. In terms of a small winger with that real magic and pace to burn I'd put my money on Christian Wade, who's having a solid season at Wasps despite a pack with very little go forward.

 

[Darwin]

Kaino's 28 and Read's only 26 so I'd say those two have quite a few years of international rugby left in them. Brad Thorn will probably be the most missed All Black although I should probably leave that judgement to the Kiwis...

Yeah, Kaino and Read are both probably quite a few years away from retirement. Thorn is the only loss from the AB's RWC starting XV. I personally think Anthony Boric is the ideal player to replace Thorn, but I'm not quite sure how the AB's selectors will go. Boric has been playing quality rugby for both the Blues and in his chances for the AB's over last couple of years. He is a good lineout option, and importantly he is a genuine tight-head lock who is a strong scrummager, and he does the basics right (rather than swanning round in the backline). Ali Williams is another option, but he wasn't really that impressive last season (after missing more than a year with injury) - he was fantastic in the air but his general play was pretty average, and his ball handling was shocking at times. There is some hope that Jarrad Hoeata may develop into a Brad Thorn clone, but I'm not yet convinced. He certainly has a hard edge to his game like Thorn, but a times he still takes his aggression too far. He is a late developer, but with another season under his belt he could well push for the AB's '4' position. Others such as Josh Bekhuis, Tom Donnelly, or James Broadhurst could push for a spot if they have strong Super Rugby season, and I'm looking forward to seeing how young Liaki Moli goes for the Blues this season.

There are a few other starting AB's that could well retire within the next couple of years. Tony Woodcock is 30 (31 at the end of the month); if he was to retire there are plenty of players who could take his place. The most obvious one is Wyatt Crockett, but Ben Franks is also an international quality loose-head, and Toby Smith looks to have immense potential. Hooker is another area where AB's may need to inject some young blood, with their three RWC hookers into their 30's (Hore 33, Mealamu 32, Flynn 31). These three probably still have a couple of years left in them, and hopefully by then Hika Elliot may have tightened up his game even further so it is suited for test level.

Replacing McCaw and Carter is obviously going to be a big deal for the AB's. They may well play for another 4 years, but they are bound to slow down a bit over the next couple of years. There is plenty of young talent coming through to replace McCaw: Luke Braid and Matt Todd are close to being ready for test level (I didn't include Waldrom, who is equally impressive, but is already 31), while Sam Cane is a phenomenal prospect (who is still only 19!). Colin Slade and Aaron Cruden are fighting to be Carters backup at the moment, but in a year or two time the likes of Beaudon Barrett, Lima Sopoaga, and Gareth Anscombe, and Tyler Bleyendaal could well be in contention.

 

[coonor]

Ireland have a fair few successors for BOD lined up. Mcfadden, Cave and O'Malley are looking to take the jersey this 6 Nations but I don't see any of them being the long term replacement for O'Driscoll. In my opinion Eion Griffin has real potential to become world class. He has a great build for a 13, good strength and speed, soft hands and most importantly a great rugby brain especially for his age.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Jonny Wilkinson - Owen Farrell
Dan Carter - No one who will be half the player he is.
Conrad Smith - Fruen (Not too familiar with NZ centers)
Brian O'Driscoll - O'Malley (Given a bit of time)
Shane Williams - Liegh Halfpenny (Hook Fullback)
Radike Samo - McCalman????
Paul O'Connell - Ian Nagle, Brian Tuohy
Eoin Reddan - Conor Murray, Paul Marshall and Luke McGrath will all be fighting for it in about 5 years I'd think
Gordan D'Arcy - McFadden

Thats all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Peat]

Simon Shaw - Matt Garvey (Charlie Matthews long term)
Jonny Wilkinson - Toby Flood (has already happened)
Mark Cueto - Charlie Sharples
Steve Thompson - Mike Haywood (in a few years)
Mike Tindall - Manu Tuilagi (if he moves to 12, Elliot Daly)
Nick Easter - Ben Morgan (if he's loyal)
Louis Moody - Chris Robshaw
Tom Palmer - Kearnan Myall
Louis Deacon - Joe Launchbury

Chris Paterson - Stuart Hogg

Shane Williams - Kristian Phillips
Martyn Williams - Justin Tipuric

Brian O'Driscoll - Darren Cave/Luke Marshall
Gordon D'Arcy - Luke Marshall/Chris Farrell
Jerry Flannery - Mike Sherry
David Wallace - Peter O'Mahony

Reddan won't be going anytime soon... nor will ROG, POC, DOC or BOD or D'Arcy for that matter. Really is a bit early to call it from 2 years out...

 

[coonor]

Simon Shaw - Matt Garvey (Charlie Matthews long term)
Jonny Wilkinson - Toby Flood (has already happened)
Mark Cueto - Charlie Sharples
Steve Thompson - Mike Haywood (in a few years)
Mike Tindall - Manu Tuilagi (if he moves to 12, Elliot Daly)
Nick Easter - Ben Morgan (if he's loyal)
Louis Moody - Chris Robshaw
Tom Palmer - Kearnan Myall
Louis Deacon - Joe Launchbury

Chris Paterson - Stuart Hogg

Shane Williams - Kristian Phillips
Martyn Williams - Justin Tipuric

Brian O'Driscoll - Darren Cave/Luke Marshall
Gordon D'Arcy - Luke Marshall/Chris Farrell
Jerry Flannery - Mike Sherry
David Wallace - Peter O'Mahony

Reddan won't be going anytime soon... nor will ROG, POC, DOC or BOD or D'Arcy for that matter. Really is a bit early to call it from 2 years out...

Slightly Bias but Luke Marshall is a good call at 12, Ireland have some quality centre partnerships coming through the ranks. Shame we have a lack of props and second rows

 

[Jockstap]

Of the Irish bunch nobody has been nailed down as a definite replacements, luckily there seem to be loads of young fellas coming through,

BOD - Bowe, McFadden, O'Malley, Griffin, Fitzgerald, Earls, Cave.
D'Arcy - McFadden, Spence, Marshall, Farrell(who I have high hopes for, looks good already at 18 and is the prototype for the modern inside centre)
Reddan - still young but there's Murray and apparently 18 year old McGrath at Leinster is the future
David Wallace - has already been replaced, still loads coming through, Ryan, Ruddock, O'Mahony, etc.
Paul O'Connell - is a problem, nobody really standing out, a couple of young guys coming through slowly at Munster but all still very lightweight.

 

[Peat]

Slightly Bias but Luke Marshall is a good call at 12, Ireland have some quality centre partnerships coming through the ranks. Shame we have a lack of props and second rows

I was going to put Niall Annett instead of Sherry as Flannery's replacement, but thought it was a step too far :lol: I can justify the other shouts, I can't with Annett (yet).

I think there are quite a few potential props, but they're all young and have a few more years to develop yet. I think Tuohy and Ryan would be a decent enough international partnership, but you're right its a worry for you guys. Don't worry, Ian Henderson and James Simpson will sort you out

Jockstap - SOB needs to show more all round 7 skills before I'd say he's replaced Wallace.

 

[dullonien]

Shane Williams - Liegh Halfpenny (Hook Fullback)

I hope Halfpenny stays at fullback and I don't think Hook makes a good fullback.

Shane Williams - Kristian Phillips
Martyn Williams - Justin Tipuric

Whilst Kristian Phillips has shown potential, I don't think he'll make it as an international player. His defense isn't good enough, and he often seems afraid of contact with ball in hand, meaning he kicks too much or runs into touch. I'd say Eli Walker is a better prospect because his all round game is already very good. He makes very few mistakes, but is still up there as one of the quickest players in Wales. Draggs has already mentioned Harry Robinson who's a smallish player like Shane, but boy does he pack a punch. There's always the possibility of Dirksen, but I personally hope that he chooses to stick with the USA, even though he'd come in very useful for Wales.

Justin Tipuric has already overtaken Martyn Williams in my eyes. With Josh Navidi improving every game, Martyn may well find himself as third choice at the Blues soon. Turnbull is another who spends alot of time at 7 for the Scarlets, although I feel he's more of a 6. Same goes for McCusker.

 

[Peat]

I might have been confusing Phillips and Walker. They were in the same U20 team right?

And yeah, he probably has, and probably should have put the has already happened tag there...

 

[Me 1]

I might have been confusing Phillips and Walker. They were in the same U20 team right?

And yeah, he probably has, and probably should have put the has already happened tag there...

Nope, Walker's a little bit younger.

 

[Peat]

I could have sworn they were and that Walker played a year young.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

For France, from the RWC squad, Bonnaire, Servat, Nallet, Heymans and Traille are the oldies. Yachvili, Harinordoquy and Rougerie are unlikely to make it in four years, but who knows!

Servat will be extremely hard to replace. Kayser, from Clermont, has been playing well, so let's hope he will prove to be of international standard. Plus, calendar boy is still there.

We have a few backrowers to replace Bonnaire and Harinordoquy, I wouldn't worry about that too much. With time, I think people like Gallan (Toulouse) and Bardy (Clermont) will step up, players like Picamoles and Lakafia will continue to develop and others like Nyanga and Ouedraogo will do a glorious comeback (they've been outstanding since last season).

For Nallet, who is 34 but is showing to be up to the task for 2012 6N, and for Papé and Pierre (who are both 30, so may be around for long yet), the obvious prospect is Maestri, plus others such as Fakaté. Millo Chluski is still young.

In the halves, we will have Parra for many years to come, and Yachvili is only 30. Doussain can only get better and there is some hope that Michalak will end his career on a high. Beauxis is expected to be back for the 6N as well.

Centres, replacing Jauzion will never be easy, but Fofana is showing lots of class, plus Mermoz and players like David, Fritz and Marty have it covered until an obvious 13 appears. Roumours say that Poitrenaud is coming back for the 6N, so he could play 13 too. He has been playing there for Toulouse, and is a better centre than fullback imo. (Plus Bstareaud, who could also cover as a frtonrower)

In the outside backs, We are still waiting for Malzieu and Médard to deliver (the latter one has had some highs, notably in the 6N). Buttin from Clermont is having an outstanding season, and Palisson is still young.

So I think that France benefits from having no "irreplaceable player", except perhaps Dusautoir. We would struggle if missing Parra and Yachvili at the same time, but they're good replacements for each other. Clerc is a match winner, and should be around for some time, but we have done all right without him. As I said, the hardest to replace will be Servat, but let's hope he can hang around some more time.

 

[Me 1]

I could have sworn they were and that Walker played a year young.

Not according to these, although they are a little confusing and may have misinterpreted.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_u20.php?player=62280&includeref=dynamic
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_u20.php?player=62294&includeref=dynamic

Bardy (Clermont)

He's a Portuguese international sorry.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

He's a Portuguese international sorry.

Fail. Cheers.

 

[Peat]

My bad. Cheers man.

 

[RAWWeyman]

McCaw - Luke Braid/Latimer

Conrad Smith- Fruen/Kahui

Jean De Villiers - Lambie/Frans Steyn

Rougerie - Fritz? Played well against Quins the other weeks. Would also consider David or even Basteraud again. Poitrenaud is a good 12 or 13 imo.

Jauzion - Mermoz/Poitrenaud. I really like Mermoz.

Jamie Roberts - Steve Shingler has been playing well for Irish, though Henson is returning to form VERY quickly.

Jaque Fourie - Juan De Jongh most likely, although at 13 he can fall short defensively.

Brian Habana - Francois Hougaard is fantastic - whether he is more useful at scrum-half is the only concern.

Chris Paterson - Rory Lamont

Shane Williams - Leigh Halfpenny with Stoddart or Henson at 15. I dont think Stoddart is half bad?

 

[big ginger 8]

Believe it or noy there is a few props coming through and Healy's still only 24 While ross is 32 (not 33 till December) not to bad in proping terms he says himself since he didn't get a pro contract for so long hasn't had as many pre-seasons
and doesn't think he'll burn out for a while I'd say he's got 2 years at least.

Hooker our hookers are young enough so ok.

Backrow ridicusouly sorted hear.

9 was worrying but 3 really good young ones coming through.

10 Sexton's still young and few other guys not too worrying yet.

Back three we're alright here.

Centre's some nice prospects coming through.

Secondrow is the worrying position. Ulster and Leinster have both had opening days for people over 2m which shows how worrying it is. Toner has looked rather good this season and hopefully Nagle gets some gametime. still it is rather worrying.