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Heineken Cup knockout rounds should be over two legs

munstermuffin

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And also you keep going on about LV cup games etc the Heineken Cup is bigger than just UK so that pointless.
And LV cup is played on international weekends sometimes and usually just used for fringe players so I suppose you'll suggest send 2nd string teams out in Heineken cup. Saints should rest Foden, Ashton, Lawes etc for final and Drico and Heaslip should take a holiday
 

psychic duck

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Playoffs in leagues are 1 leg and aren't extra as they've been here ages. They took over from Celtic Cup so hardly extra ML games.
And those Midweek games against test nations are each clubs own choice and generate large revenues which wouldn't be case in your 2 legged idea. At least do some research if your going to be acting up.
And it not an overreaction it reality.
Also in 2 legged semi final it'd effect attendances traveling supports and plenty more.
But seen as you full of brains you tell me how they can fit an extra weekend on to an already over congested season. And thank god we live in tropical conditions and bad weather will never mean we have to reschedule games.

no RWC is different

I don't see your point about money as an issue, there were attendances of 55000, 49762, 21309, 32051, 50073, 18231 for the H Cup knockout rounds this season

those are extremely healthy attendances and I am sure a second leg Perpignan Northampton match at Barcelona would of got a good crowd likewise Toulouse who always get a big crowd

it doesn't affect attendances in Champions League matches with 2 legs

the Irish teams often rest their players a lot in the Magners League, and the French teams have bigger squads, no matches in France had to be rearranged this season, and the British rearranged matches could take place during LV Cup slots

and even if an extra match was added on top of everything, I wouldn't go as far as say it would kill anything anyway
 
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Teh Mite

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I think it's fair to say the consensus on the suggestion is it's an awful idea.

The SINGLE LEG KO games WERE played in neutral venues in ERC arranged matches.

Reads to me more like you're having a ***** that USAP didn't make the final this year. What's to say they wouldn't have been played off the park in Spain also?
 

munstermuffin

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Hence why teams have to move out of home stadiums at semi final stage and yes attendances are large because they 1 off and luckily saints and Leinster have good support.
But I doubt they'd get those numbers when reality is they struggling to sell final out.

Also we rest players in ML because we are forced to rest them. And soccer is on much more global scale and sells out in big clubs but they're mostly home supporters from across UK etc. We don't have same exposure in rugby and again forget resting player Where would you fit it in?
Simply I think this is ridiculous idea and I thought you didn't want to compare with soccer but the CL is as boring as watching paint dry half time. In QFs Ulster rattled Saints away from home and it was tight. Leicester were close to Leinster. Game in Barcelona was decided las as was Toulouse and Biarritz. Any game could've went either way. In Semi Finals Toulouse could've beaten Leinster and Saints were just superb in their 1 but could've been tight any other time.
Argubally 1 in 6 games the home team had it easy so I don't see home advantage that big an advantage and I for 1 am extremely happy with format as is.
 

munstermuffin

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Also how is World Cup different if NZ are at home in Semi Final isn't that unfair ?????
It simple it luck of draw and teams have to use it and it helps make or sport great.
 

psychic duck

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Also how is World Cup different if NZ are at home in Semi Final isn't that unfair ?????
It simple it luck of draw and teams have to use it and it helps make or sport great.

it's because one nation hosts the World CUp

the semi finals were not neutral, Aviva Stadium and STadium MK were the larger home grounds of the two teams, and both Leinster and Northampton fans would of outnumbered greatly the opposition

yes those matches were closely matched teams, and the home advantage factor was what swung each time, apart from the Biarritz match (although they got a lot closer to winning than they would of without it)

so with 2 legs the team which deserves to go through more would do, not just the team that wins between two evenly matched teams because they're at home

it's too predictable, and would far less predictable if it was played over two legs
 

Teh Mite

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the semi finals were not neutral, Aviva Stadium and STadium MK were the larger home grounds of the two teams, and both Leinster and Northampton fans would of outnumbered greatly the opposition

You don't know what you're talking about.

1(b) Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals and Final

(i) the Semi-Finals will be played at a venue designated by ERC, with the opponentsin each match determined by a draw conducted by ERC. The Final will be played at a venue designated by ERC.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/heinekencup/rules/index.php
 

munstermuffin

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Duck you really haven't clue.
In 09 Munster played their "home" semi final in Croker vs Leinster.
ERC got venue so really if you going to argue it at least know ruules
 

Teh Mite

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so what, it doesn't matter, they are both grounds that are the larger grounds that those teams chose, and Northampton and Leinster fans, and the home advantage is exactly the same as before in the quarters

What muffin said. Northampton and Leinster had nothing to do with selecting the venues for the Semis. They were ERC organised matches, with ERC branded ticketing, which had nothing to do with the "home" team (as you call it).

As it happens, Lansdowne Rd happens to be in Dublin where Leinster are based although it's NOT their home ground.
Stadium MK was available on the Sunday of the Semi-Final, but lies in a different county (let alone town) to Northampton.

There were no "Home" teams.
 

psychic duck

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yes they were home teams, with their home fans, in the exact same ground they chose in the quarter finals

where do you think the ERC would have put Perpignan? Paris? No, in Barcelona of course, at HOME
Toulouse at Toulouse, at HOME
Biarritz at San Sebastian, at HOME
Cardiff Blues at Millenium Stadium, at HOME
Leinster at Aviva Stadium, at HOME
Northampton at Milton Keynes, at HOME, all where the teams have chosen

even if the ERC chose the venue, you cannot deny that those matches are not HOME matches, apart from maybe Northampton at MK, but even then they would have far more support and atmosphere there than the opposition fans, making it a HOME tie

the Munster/Leinster occaison is the only example of the team given a Home tie not having an advantage, and is a one off
 

Teh Mite

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I give up. The evidence has been clearly and concisely presented numerous times (by multiple) people) and you still choose believe otherwise.

Not my problem, good luck convincing others with your idea. I wasn't won over.
 

munstermuffin

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I give up. The evidence has been clearly and concisely presented numerous times (by multiple) people) and you still choose believe otherwise.

Not my problem, good luck convincing others with your idea. I wasn't won over.
+1 Really it can't be made more clearer.
 

dullonien

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Wow, no ones listening to each other in this thread. I don't agree with Psychic Ducks proposal, as I think the HC is fine as it is. But whatever the rules state, it should be perfectly obvious that the Semi Finals aren't played at neutral grounds. I wouldn't say they're home ties, but they're as close as possible, and I do think that could be changed, well in an ideal world anyway. I reality is that placing a game between say an English team and an Irish team in France (whilst fair to both sides) would result in a much smaller attendance. If or when the sport becomes bigger, and more popular, and you'd guarantee selling out the stadium, then this can be looked at, but I'd preser a Semi Final match played in front of 50,000 supporters (even if 80% of them are 'home' supporters), than playing in a neutral venue in front of 20,000 fans.

I don't think rugby lends itself to home and away ties. If one game is played on a dry, sunny day, and the other on a cold, windy, wet day, then the home team on the sunny day still has the advantage. Whilst it may be true at the moment that groups with Italian teams are almost guaranteed the winner having a home quarter, and then possibly a 'home' semi, this won't be true for much longer. We've gotta build towards a day where all teams are competative, and there are no easy games. In that case, the current system is fair, because you will then have propperly earn't the advantages in the knock-out stages. From watching the Magners League, playing away at Treviso next season ain't gonna be a walkover, so this is already coming true imo.

Overall, I understand Psychic Ducks reservations about the format of the HC, but I still think the current system is the best at this moment in time.
 

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Madrid and Paris are also nearby...In a region called Europe
 

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