Ireland to host 2023 Rugby world cup ?

[LittleGuy]

World rugby fans eagerly await visiting the Sportsground.

A few years ago my Dad watched a Connacht home game, and later was wondering why a professional rugby team was "playing at a bus stop".

 

[munstermuffin]

A few years ago my Dad watched a Connacht home game, and later was wondering why a professional rugby team was "playing at a bus stop".

That's a compliment to Sportsground But in fairness it is a good atmosphere there and pitch is good but facilities are desperate

 

[LittleGuy]

That's a compliment to Sportsground But in fairness it is a good atmosphere there and pitch is good but facilities are desperate

I do think it was before a few upgrades were made and he was actually semi-serious wondering if they were actually paying fans or whether it was just kind of people that had wandered up to the game and stopped to watch.

The Canadian National team has played at much worse.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Brain O'Driscoll you lovely, lovely man.

 

[Peat]

As far as I can see, an Ireland RWC bid that doesn't use the GAA grounds will simply get laughed out. Without them, there's not enough stadiums and not enough capacity. It's that simple to me. If they're not good enough, renovate them. I'd imagine the Governments can/will be persuaded to find cash towards that end and if they do, I'd imagine its a situation in which the IRFU can get them to sign to a reasonable rent for their use.

 

[smartcooky]

One thing you will have to consider for Ireland is not so much the standard of the Stadiums, but the standard of the pitches. Where are you going to hold the two semi finals and the two finals.

We were able to use Eden Park for all four but the standard of the turf there is nothing short of superb. It stood two matches on consecutive nights for the semis, then five days later, the bronze medal match and two days later the Final. Judging from what I have seen going in Europe so far this season on the EOYT and domestic rugby, the standard of the rugby pitches there is nowhere near as good as Eden Park.

Could Croke Park stand four matches in eight days?

 

[nickdnz]

As bad as this sounds I'd certainly rather it go to Argentina. The biggest reason is simply every second World Cup has matches in the UK - and while Ireland may feel hard done by this comment as they haven't hosted it, it just seems there are still a huge number of fans from other countries who haven't had the chance to experience a RWC. And for the record I certainly don't feel NZ should get another shot at it for at least 30 or more years.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

2015 England
2019 Japan
2023 South Africa
2027 Canada
2031 Argentina.. possibly Ireland
2035 it becomes cloudy at this point

 

[Amiga500]

Could Croke Park stand four matches in eight days?

It is a semi-synthetic pitch that routinely takes 4 matches in 2 days. However the demands of rugby and gaelic football are different, with scrums being significantly harder on the turf.

For a World Cup you need at least basic facilities and most GAA stadiums don't have that especially when it comes to medical areas.

:lol: Who told you that? What makes a world cup any different from any other professional (rugby) game?

Are you expecting there to be an operating theatre under a stand?

On your definitely ins: Croke Park isn't a definitely when the bill the last time was nearly â'¬1m a year rent or something. Will IRFU pay that?

Its a definite when they cannot make required stadium capacity any other way.

Also will IRB be happy about RDS and Aviva being practically next door they that close.

The road links in Ireland now mean travelling around the grounds is not the onerous trek it once would have been. Having 3 on the doorstep is no biggie.

On Casement Park: Again why pay GAA a big bill and especially when a superb looking Ravenhill is close by too.

Ravenhill is gonna be 18k by April, there are plans for expansion for a RWC bringing it up to 22K or so.

Casement is gonna be 40k by 2023.

I'm sure you can do the numbers.

Semple Stadium and Pairc Ui Chiomh are too old and again on top of the bill for rent will IRFU refurbish all the facilities too.

Your possibly ins:
Sports ground won't be used as it's too small and can't be redeveloped due to Greyhound track and again IRFU don't own it.

Pearce Stadium is owned by GAA.
Musgrave may be updated but will they build it massively just to be used 4 times a year.

Again this fixation on IRFU funded refurbishment... and I've already pointed out the GAA are in the midst of development on the two stadia.

So what are your options? Well hold all the games in the Aviva, RDS, Ravenhill and Thomond... sure it'll be grand.

Like you've mentioned a lot of GAA and that'd factor in having a huge rental bill as remember RDS is also rented. Add on working around the All Ireland's in September and soccer qualifiers in Aviva.

As I pointed out - the GAA hierarchy will be fully aware of what this would do for the economy. They are fully aware that GAA members stand to benefit immeasurably in terms of jobs, investment and income from a RWC in Ireland. It would go a long way to stopping the drain of members as they emigrate. Central Council and congress will not be keen to risk that for a few quid.

 

[RWC2011Fan]

2015 England
2019 Japan
2023 South Africa
2027 Canada
2031 Argentina.. possibly Ireland
2035 it becomes cloudy at this point

I wonder, if South Africa hosted the World Cup, would they use Kings Park and Newlands or would they go with the stadiums that they built for the 2010 FIFA World Cup? I have to wonder how ticket sales would go down as well, if last year's triangular tournament was any indication. People weren't exactly flooding in early to see Italy vs. Samoa. Still, I think South Africa have a lot of great rugby grounds and would probably put on a pretty decent tournament.

Anyway, if it were up to me...

2023: Ireland/Scotland
2027: Argentina
2031: France
2035: South Africa
2039: Italy
2043: New Zealand/Australia
2047: USA/Canada
Now that's looking far into the future. It's difficult to maintain a balance between spreading the game and choosing a host which could put on a really good tournament. We all know France can do the latter, and I'd really like to see them get another tournament soon because of all of the upgrades their grounds are getting for Euro '16. But at the same time, 2023 would be a little soon for them so I pushed them back a few years. I'd like to see USA/Canada getting a little sooner than where I put them, actually. :lol: Same goes for Australia; I think the code in that country would really benefit from a World Cup down there. Of course I had to throw NZ in the mix as well. Does anyone know if the alternating between northern and southern hemisphere hosts is going out the window? I assume so, with Japan getting it in 2019 after England.

And who knows? By then, there might be a new force in world rugby that could be looking to host it; like Spain, or something.

 

[Bull]

I feel South Africa definitely has to get a look in for the RWC before any of the other Euro nations. We have the facilities to host another successful event, I think most of the newly built stadium would get at least one match. The reason I think that a match like Scotland vs Italy got such a low attendance was because of ticket prices, for the WC a match like that would or should be much cheaper.. Plus it's fairly cheap for travelers.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I wonder, if South Africa hosted the World Cup, would they use Kings Park and Newlands or would they go with the stadiums that they built for the 2010 FIFA World Cup? I have to wonder how ticket sales would go down as well, if last year's triangular tournament was any indication. People weren't exactly flooding in early to see Italy vs. Samoa. Still, I think South Africa have a lot of great rugby grounds and would probably put on a pretty decent tournament.

Anyway, if it were up to me...

2023: Ireland/Scotland
2027: Argentina
2031: France
2035: South Africa
2039: Italy
2043: New Zealand/Australia
2047: USA/Canada
Now that's looking far into the future. It's difficult to maintain a balance between spreading the game and choosing a host which could put on a really good tournament. We all know France can do the latter, and I'd really like to see them get another tournament soon because of all of the upgrades their grounds are getting for Euro '16. But at the same time, 2023 would be a little soon for them so I pushed them back a few years. I'd like to see USA/Canada getting a little sooner than where I put them, actually. :lol: Same goes for Australia; I think the code in that country would really benefit from a World Cup down there. Of course I had to throw NZ in the mix as well. Does anyone know if the alternating between northern and southern hemisphere hosts is going out the window? I assume so, with Japan getting it in 2019 after England.

And who knows? By then, there might be a new force in world rugby that could be looking to host it; like Spain, or something.

I think we'd spread the tournament around the country with all major stadia used though if both Newlands and Cape Town stadium would be used I wouldn't know. Politics will certainly come into play as there is some bad blood between the WPRU and the City of Cape Town muni. As for turn-out, I don't think that quadrangular could at all be used as a yard-stick, everyone here knew that was merely a cleverish stop-gap with France in NZ and the fact that the 'home nations' wouldn't be able to send full strength sides apart from Scotland to some degree. In past B&I Lions tour years we'd get q or 2 games against France at least, alternating with the other SANZAR country not being invaded by old men in red jerseys.

Back on topic, I do think its a shame that Ireland hasn't hosted yet (as opposed to other countries having had a go twice). TBH they should have rather in the past when it was probably more feasible. I certainly hope SA gets another crack seeing as England, Wales, France, Aus and NZ all have had more than 1 go and with home advantage being so massive. But, putting my SA bias aside, it'd have to be Argentina in my view with a toss up between Ireland, USA and Italy the next and then maybe SA again; I am a firm believer in alternating SH and NH but that'll go sooner than later because of the disparate populations.

 

[munstermuffin]

:lol: Who told you that? What makes a world cup any different from any other professional (rugby) game?

Are you expecting there to be an operating theatre under a stand?




Its a definite when they cannot make required stadium capacity any other way.




The road links in Ireland now mean travelling around the grounds is not the onerous trek it once would have been. Having 3 on the doorstep is no biggie.




Ravenhill is gonna be 18k by April, there are plans for expansion for a RWC bringing it up to 22K or so.

Casement is gonna be 40k by 2023.

I'm sure you can do the numbers.



Again this fixation on IRFU funded refurbishment... and I've already pointed out the GAA are in the midst of development on the two stadia.

So what are your options? Well hold all the games in the Aviva, RDS, Ravenhill and Thomond... sure it'll be grand.




As I pointed out - the GAA hierarchy will be fully aware of what this would do for the economy. They are fully aware that GAA members stand to benefit immeasurably in terms of jobs, investment and income from a RWC in Ireland. It would go a long way to stopping the drain of members as they emigrate. Central Council and congress will not be keen to risk that for a few quid.

I think you miss the point most GAA stadiums don't have medical facilities which is required in rugby stadiums and that won't be seen as a positive in submitting bids.

And your point is the IRFU will refurbish GAA stadiums and rent them (remember also GAA won't close off stadiums between Feb and Oct/Nov due to club games). You think that GAA will allow so many stadiums be closed when Croke Park barely got through last time for small price?
If you know GAA in Ireland then you know a lot in Congress (which is where process goes through) don't like rugby or soccer.

Can I ask few other points.
Will IRFU invest a lot in to GAA stadiums to possibly come out in debt?
Do GAA really care about economy as they aren't exactly making losses?
I don't see how a RWC will stop the emigration and drain?
Can you really see die-hard GAA guys being happy that their county finals and provincial club games will be moved due to rugby?

And it not a fixation on refurbishment of GAA it's simply the IRFU have to try make a profit or at least a controllable debt. Yet your saying that improving and upgrading facilities they'll have no use of or control after a few weeks is worth it.
I'd love for us to host a RWC but I still think we need to grow the game more and develop a lot more rugby culture.

 

[Amiga500]

I think you miss the point most GAA stadiums don't have medical facilities which is required in rugby stadiums and that won't be seen as a positive in submitting bids.

Please educate me on these facilities and at what level of rugby do they become "required".

And your point is the IRFU will refurbish GAA stadiums

Are you not reading my posts?

The GAA are ALREADY in the midst of work at Semple and Pairc Ui Chiomh. NOT the IRFU. The IRFU do NOT have to pay for any refurbishment work. Clear?

If you know GAA in Ireland then you know a lot in Congress (which is where process goes through) don't like rugby or soccer.

Which is of course why they opened up Croke. The main opposers to which were in the North. There has been a significant change in opinion toward further opening since.

Will IRFU invest a lot in to GAA stadiums to possibly come out in debt?

WTF?!? Where are you getting the idea of the IRFU practically rebuilding stadia from?!?

Do GAA really care about economy as they aren't exactly making losses?

Congress takes motions and votes from grass-roots; club-members through the county AGMs to the county delegates who take it to congress and vote as told by their county AGM.

Many of the membership will see benefits from it - I don't mean in a sporting sense - I mean in their professional lives, be they joiners, plumbers, hoteliers, publicans....

I don't see how a RWC will stop the emigration and drain?

True.... sure who would stick around to build and fix up the hotels needed, or the roads, or the trains, or bus services, or pubs/restaurants etc.

Can you really see die-hard GAA guys being happy that their county finals and provincial club games will be moved due to rugby?

The county finals occupy the prime stadium for 1 weekend (apart from dual code counties). After that, in the provincial championships, it runs around the provincial grounds.

For instance, the (P)Athletic grounds in Armagh or Pairc Esler in Newry are unlikely to be used for RWC. Same for Parnell Park.

The scheduling is not an insurmountable problem.

Yet your saying that improving and upgrading facilities they'll have no use of or control after a few weeks is worth it.

?!?!?!

THE IRFU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A PENNY ON GAA STADIA. I have never ever indicated otherwise!

 

[Feicarsinn]

2015 England
2019 Japan
2023 South Africa
2027 Canada
2031 Argentina.. possibly Ireland
2035 it becomes cloudy at this point

Not going to your primary market for 20 years would be utterly foolish.

 

[munstermuffin]

Please educate me on these facilities and at what level of rugby do they become "required".



Are you not reading my posts?

The GAA are ALREADY in the midst of work at Semple and Pairc Ui Chiomh. NOT the IRFU. The IRFU do NOT have to pay for any refurbishment work. Clear?





Which is of course why they opened up Croke. The main opposers to which were in the North. There has been a significant change in opinion toward further opening since.




WTF?!? Where are you getting the idea of the IRFU practically rebuilding stadia from?!?




Congress takes motions and votes from grass-roots; club-members through the county AGMs to the county delegates who take it to congress and vote as told by their county AGM.

Many of the membership will see benefits from it - I don't mean in a sporting sense - I mean in their professional lives, be they joiners, plumbers, hoteliers, publicans....



True.... sure who would stick around to build and fix up the hotels needed, or the roads, or the trains, or bus services, or pubs/restaurants etc.




The county finals occupy the prime stadium for 1 weekend (apart from dual code counties). After that, in the provincial championships, it runs around the provincial grounds.

For instance, the (P)Athletic grounds in Armagh or Pairc Esler in Newry are unlikely to be used for RWC. Same for Parnell Park.

The scheduling is not an insurmountable problem.




?!?!?!

THE IRFU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A PENNY ON GAA STADIA. I have never ever indicated otherwise!

Ok then who will pay for the use and upgrade of the GAA stadiums used? Or are you saying don't use them?

Semele stadium has already been finished and wouldn't be suitable for rugby. Same for Pairc Ui Chiomh which I presume you've never been in or would know it's getting upgraded as it's barely standing.

Stadiums would need some decent standard area for medical facilities as blood bin and any serious injuries which to my knowledge only Croker has have to have an area. Look up the facilities at rugby stadiums you'll see it.

They opened Croker to help repay debts which have been achieved and you also don't know much of GAA here in south. Stadiums are used from QFs up (in both codes) in nearly every county as it usually due to pitches being available and having enclosed areas as well as county boards have to pay clubs in GAA for use.

And you say people will stick around to fix roads etc well put economics in it, all construction courses are near lowest numbers they've ever had so professions like that have eased.
Will people stay and be taxed out of it when every road that has been done in Ireland has been done by subcontractors in Poland etc. it's cheap options the government take.
Also a lot of GAA stadiums like Pearce stadium in Galway you can walk all the way around vand stand is just sealed off with steward and tickets it'll suit GAA games but are you telling me issues like that won't be an issue for a World Cup and no money would be needed?
And again it hopeful thinking plumbers etc will get work but again I will ask who foots the bill?
I agree getting the GAA stadiums will be easy part but converting some to World Cup standard will be bit of work

Also our economy is poor and we aren't a big nation so how can we afford a World Cup realistically?
How can we guarantee ticket sales which is an also an issue (and was in New Zealand too).

Like let's not forget you have to pay IRB so many millions too to host and it's up to you to make it back

 

[Peat]

Ireland is part of the biggest rugby market on the world. They're in a short flight of five more of the biggest rugby nations on earth, all of which have free movement there and back. If you can't get people over to watch a rugby world cup and get drunk then you're doomed.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ireland is part of the biggest rugby market on the world. They're in a short flight of five more of the biggest rugby nations on earth, all of which have free movement there and back. If you can't get people over to watch a rugby world cup and get drunk then you're doomed.

I agree location is ideal and especially when a lot of Southern Hemisphere teams will get over from London and UK where there is many based. And I've no doubt it's possible to host it just as will we economically take the risk?

 

[Amiga500]

Ok then who will pay for the use and upgrade of the GAA stadiums used? Or are you saying don't use them?

The GAA are already upgrading several of the stadia mentioned.

Semple stadium has already been finished and wouldn't be suitable for rugby.

One stand out of 4 has been done.

Same for Pairc Ui Chiomh which I presume you've never been in or would know it's getting upgraded as it's barely standing.

Same goes for the stadium that has yet to be rebuilt?

Stadiums would need some decent standard area for medical facilities as blood bin and any serious injuries which to my knowledge only Croker has have to have an area. Look up the facilities at rugby stadiums you'll see it.

Uh-huh.

If there are serious injuries they are taken to hospital.

If its a blood injury requiring a few stitches wise up.

They opened Croker to help repay debts which have been achieved and you also don't know much of GAA here in south. Stadiums are used from QFs up (in both codes) in nearly every county as it usually due to pitches being available and having enclosed areas as well as county boards have to pay clubs in GAA for use.

You make assumptions as to my background and knowledge of the football scene. Bad, bad, bad assumptions.

So, by your reckoning the stadia in nearly every county are used for the club provincial championship when its down to the last 8 teams in each province? Which will be 4 games, then 2, then 1. So after the QFs (which are staggered), there are only 2 grounds in each province being used (if the SFs aren't a double header).

Off the top of my head, places like Mullingar, Newry, Armagh, Tullamore, Portlaoise, Newbridge etc are not going to be considered for RWC venues but are more than sufficient for provincial club games.

After the first round of provincial clubs (which is home and away), it moves to neutral venues - which wouldn't even have to be the designated county ground of the county its played in.

Also a lot of GAA stadiums like Pearce stadium in Galway you can walk all the way around vand stand is just sealed off with steward and tickets it'll suit GAA games but are you telling me issues like that won't be an issue for a World Cup and no money would be needed?

I've never been to Pearce so cannot comment definitively, but in any sizable ground I've played or watched in, you cannot simply walk between seated and standing areas without climbing over a fence.

And again it hopeful thinking plumbers etc will get work but again I will ask who foots the bill?

Obviously this is not the place for a detailed examination of economics... but for example - if the hotel industry is expecting several hundred thousand people to descend on Ireland for the RWC, do you not think they are going to make sure their hotels are in top nick? Who do you think is gonna do the work on it?

 

[Thingimubob]

Wouldn't mind seeing the Irish get a RWC! As long as we don't get any games anyway, getting ridiculous that every single European WC has had matches in Wales!

Think the Italians should get a look in before SA and France get another chance to host! They have the stadiums, interest is rising quite rapidly, so if they get the Serie A club's on board, they could host a damn good tournament I reckon