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Is Warren Gatland Simply a Lucky Coach?

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profitius said:
My problem with Schmidt can be summed up in the last month. The Lions played better rugby against NZ in the wet than Ireland did in dry conditions against Japan despite Gatland only having the Lions for a few weeks.

I'm not saying Schmidt is a bad coach but the worshipping of him from the Irish media as thee undisputed greatest coach in the world is nauseating.
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Profitius in the 1st test vs Japan they played great stuff. I do agree as I stated earlier Schmidt is a slow burner of a coach. But he had Leinster playing amazing to be fair. With Ireland I do agree his tactics are awful to watch but being fair I think he is realizing the need to put more width and creation in the plan and is implenting it slowly. But he is adaptable. On Worlds Greatest Coach - To me I never say he's greatest as it's never accurate to judge. Eg would Conor O'Shea be better than Hansen in charge of New Zealand? Would Hansen be better than O'Shea at Italy etc.
 
mania said:
sorry i'm giving an opinion. i didnt realise you wanted someone to agree with you. i dont do sycophant. if u dont like others view take a long walk off a short pier. i'm sorry you dont agree gatlands a great coach. obviously drawing the series vs the best team in the world isnt good enough for you? who cares.

and thank you for agreeing "Gatland did the job" thats all that matters.

but hey enjoy your "if only" moments. if only eJones or schmidt were coaching we wouldve won. if only suartLancaster did better we'd be world cup champs. if only blah blah blah

the what ifs dont matter. gatlands an awesome coach
get over it, its only rugby. u need a life and take a chill pill
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Excellent post
 
valley commando said:
Excellent post
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Is it though? How re we defining "doing the job"? If it means simply being head coach, I could have done the job (thinking about it, I'd have rather enjoyed it), it wouldn't serve as proof that I'm an awesome coach though.

Clearly if onlys don't prove anything and are a matter of opinion, but the same goes for results oriented thinking. All it tells us is what we already know - what happened. It does nothing to demonstrate that better results wouldn't have been achieved with a different approach.

It's probably more difficult to prove that he is good than to throw stones at him, but the statistical comparisons are irrefutable and must hold some weight. The widely agreed upon and fairly numerous criticisms must too unless you're someone who believes that it's everyone else who's marching to the wrong beat. I've seen little if anything on this thread to refute either constructively, just people who appear to have an agenda getting hot under the collar.

FWIW, this is a topic that has long fascinated me (the wider picture, not just restricted to Gatland) and struck me as one of the most difficult things in sport to make an objective decision on.
 
munstermuffin said:
Nope. Howley was 1st man on list of any coaches. Townsend was offered a role to assist Howley and be over midweek attack during tests. He turned it down saying he'd be better served leading a team he will be with and his input will be important over assisting another backs coach.
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I didn't realise this, I read that he offered it to Townsend who turned it down, then to the Glasgow attack coach who also turned it down so went with Howley. That's awful
 
Ozzay said:
I didn't realise this, I read that he offered it to Townsend who turned it down, then to the Glasgow attack coach who also turned it down so went with Howley. That's awful
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Jason O'Halloran was the Scotland attack coach at the time and he had the Scottish backs playing some really great stuff at the 6N. It's the mother of all insults that especially Townsend, who at the time was the Scotland head coach in waiting, was merely offered the chance to assist Howler. It's like asking Eddie Jones to assist Rowntree. Well done Gatland.
 
Ozzay said:
I didn't realise this, I read that he offered it to Townsend who turned it down, then to the Glasgow attack coach who also turned it down so went with Howley. That's awful
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Nope was offered a role similar to Rowntree. Didn't even know anyone else was offered it. But Townsend in my eyes is the best attack coach around and is evident in his Glasgow transformation
 
ragerancher said:
Please tell me this is a joke because you honestly can't have this poor an understanding of how reasoning works.
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ok im done with you. you just rehashing the same over and over and your getting a bit irate.
its really ungracious to lose an argument and then start taking personal shots.
you should try acting with a bit of honour and nobility. it will do your world wonders .

have a great day ragerancher. whilst its hasnt really been a great debate its great to get to know you.

gatland is the man
 
munstermuffin said:
Can I ask where is the proof they wouldn't have done a better job?
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u can i ask but i dont have the proof. does anyone? do you have that proof?
i 'm saying gatland did a great job. i'm not getting into again how schmidt and eJones wouldve done better, because they didnt do the job. they werent given the rsponsibility. gats stepped up and accepted a tour that looked like lose lose.
people shouldnt be belittling what gatland achieved when no one believed he would come away with his and the lions honour intact. this was a massive acheivement and gats deserves all the positive kudo's coming his way.
its haters that are saying after he drew the series vs the best team in the world that someone else wouldve done better. thats ingratitude and just plain hating.
 
mania said:
ok im done with you. you just rehashing the same over and over and your getting a bit irate.
its really ungracious to lose an argument and then start taking personal shots.
you should try acting with a bit of honour and nobility. it will do your world wonders .

have a great day ragerancher. whilst its hasnt really been a great debate its great to get to know you.

gatland is the man
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I'm seriously beginning to think you are a troll... What's ungracious is to make a ludicrous point, ignore all comments made to the contrary, provide no support for anything you say, stick your fingers in your ears, use logical fallacies and then cry that it's just your opinion and you can't take opposition. There has been no debate, there has just been you asserting something and completely ignoring everything to the contrary. So had the Aussie no slipped on his penalty and had NZ got the penalty they were supposed to have resulting in Gatland losing both tours, you'd say he was not a great coach? Your entire argument hinges on 2 kicks not being made, think about it.

Oh and btw, Jones and Schmidt have both beaten NZ and far more convincingly than Gatland did.
 
I like how you're implying Schmidt and Jones weren't good enough to be picked as lions coach, when they both turned it down. Gatland was the scraping of the barrel not the chose one.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
I like how you're implying Schmidt and Jones weren't good enough to be picked as lions coach, when they both turned it down. Gatland was the scraping of the barrel not the chose one.
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i didnt mean to come out demeaning schmidt and jones. i was just getting a rise outta the others.
my basic premise was that gatland did a great job and i was commending him.
i was replying to others that said that eJones or schmidt woulda done a better job and that argument just ran away with itself. tbh i dont care enough to argue that, ejones and schmidt vs gats, it was just fun.
gats being the last choice just shows how all the odds were stacked against him and no one had any faith in him being able to add any honour to the lions history.
and thats exactly what he did. in fact; twice and owns a major page in Lions history
 
mania said:
u can i ask but i dont have the proof. does anyone? do you have that proof?
i 'm saying gatland did a great job. i'm not getting into again how schmidt and eJones wouldve done better, because they didnt do the job. they werent given the rsponsibility. gats stepped up and accepted a tour that looked like lose lose.
people shouldnt be belittling what gatland achieved when no one believed he would come away with his and the lions honour intact. this was a massive acheivement and gats deserves all the positive kudo's coming his way.
its haters that are saying after he drew the series vs the best team in the world that someone else wouldve done better. thats ingratitude and just plain hating.
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But there is the key? Over the Geography 6 and some other actions he didn't come away with his honor in tact from everyone. And that criticism came from some pundits some ex players and others. Also why are people haters because they think another man could've done better? Personally I think he got a draw which is good but New Zealand were there for taking. Some may say opposite and we were taking to the cleaners if there was a kicker. The thing is now New Zealand for 1st time in a long time looked very ordinary and I think England or Ireland would've snuck a win against them over. But just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them haters.

Also are you Valley Commando just ye seem to have same traits? Not on opinions just wording and actions
 
mania said:
And there's a hater taking personal shots cos he lost the argument. Have a wonderful day and weekend.
Hope u get to win something... like anything. Might improve your mood
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Just out of curiosity how did he loose argument and how did you win?
You haven't even put 1 reasoning or valid debate on subject just "haters hate"
 
munstermuffin said:
Just out of curiosity how did he loose argument and how did you win?
You haven't even put 1 reasoning or valid debate on subject just "haters hate"
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easy. gats is a great coach. he's proven it with a drawn series vs the ABs
the rest is hypothetical BS that eJones or schmidt. wouldve done better.
actuality always proceeds potentiality.
 
mania said:
easy. gats is a great coach. he's proven it with a drawn series vs the ABs
the rest is hypothetical BS that eJones or schmidt. wouldve done better.
actuality always proceeds potentiality.
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Joe Schmidt drew with All Blacks in November series.
Eddie Jones has won series against All Blacks.
Both with lesser resources.

Stuart Lancaster has beaten the All Blacks. So your not really seeing point.
If he's so great why isn't he getting the universal praise? Why are the 2 coaches that were massively praised by players and honoured by players neither Gatland?
 
munstermuffin said:
Joe Schmidt drew with All Blacks in November series.
Eddie Jones has won series against All Blacks.
Both with lesser resources.

Stuart Lancaster has beaten the All Blacks. So your not really seeing point.
If he's so great why isn't he getting the universal praise? Why are the 2 coaches that were massively praised by players and honoured by players neither Gatland?
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haters just gotta hate. im done with u too
have an awesome weekend. hope you manage to write some amazing sci fi with your rich imagination
 
mania said:
haters just gotta hate. im done with u too
have an awesome weekend. hope you manage to write some amazing sci fi with your rich imagination
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mania said:
haters just gotta hate. im done with u too
have an awesome weekend. hope you manage to write some amazing sci fi with your rich imagination
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As I said can't argue your point. And just say your haters line.

Guess it shows you can't back it up ;)
 

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