Italian teams in Magners League from 2010/2011 season

[An Tarbh]

they should be more than capable of building up competitive sides, I'd say the likes of Treviso and Calvisano even now would compete with the lower ranked ML sides, so if it's a merging of sides which are backed up by returning internationals then they should more than hold their own.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 26 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Bringing the thread on a bit of a tangent, will the admission of 2 Italian teams have a knock on effect on the Heineken Cup? Bascially, Celtic rugby is now in control of 11 of the 24 places in Europe's top competition. Will the French and English clubs kick up about this and demand increased representation at the expense of the Magners League?[/b]

well I'm sure they'll be happy enough as it'll guarantee 7 HEC places for England and France.

 

[danit]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 26 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Bringing the thread on a bit of a tangent, will the admission of 2 Italian teams have a knock on effect on the Heineken Cup? Bascially, Celtic rugby is now in control of 11 of the 24 places in Europe's top competition. Will the French and English clubs kick up about this and demand increased representation at the expense of the Magners League?[/b]

as for the HCup, I don't think there will be any problem, as a matter of fact the representation is based on different Unions and not on domestic leagues, so it'll always be Eng 6/7, Fra 6/7, Wal 3/4, Ire 3/4, Sco 2, Ita 2

I can't imagine what will happen with the Challenge cup, probably we gonna have some sides from the welsh premiership, the scottish league, the irish AIB league and the new italian domestic league, honestly pretty weak sides if compared to the english premiership and french Top14 ones, it could be the opportunity to axe the Challenge Cup...

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Mar 26 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 26 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bringing the thread on a bit of a tangent, will the admission of 2 Italian teams have a knock on effect on the Heineken Cup? Bascially, Celtic rugby is now in control of 11 of the 24 places in Europe's top competition. Will the French and English clubs kick up about this and demand increased representation at the expense of the Magners League?[/b]

as for the HCup, I don't think there will be any problem, as a matter of fact the representation is based on different Unions and not on domestic leagues, so it'll always be Eng 6/7, Fra 6/7, Wal 3/4, Ire 3/4, Sco 2, Ita 2

I can't imagine what will happen with the Challenge cup, probably we gonna have some sides from the welsh premiership, the scottish league, the irish AIB league and the new italian domestic league, honestly pretty weak sides if compared to the english premiership and french Top14 ones, it could be the opportunity to axe the Challenge Cup...
[/b][/quote]

I'm not sure if we'll have any of those club sides playing in the challenge cup, it's possible that the Challenge Cup will be made smaller because the club sides would just be out of their depth at Challenge Cup level.

 

[Cymro]

They should cut down one of the HEC spots for a Welsh team, then it would stop the Welsh sides throwing micky mouse teams at times!

 

[An Tarbh]

well they only have 3 but get the extra spot through the playoff with the Italian side, which they've only lost once.

 

[Prestwick]

I take it the existing system of HEC qualification in the Magners will not change when the Italians enter?

I think this is a nice idea. It should prompt more Italian players to return home like Marcato and Parrise although considering how much he is getting in sponsorship right now at Stade I'm not so sure.

What will these two teams be called and where will they play? Parma & Rome perhaps? The "condition" about playing facilities is a bit of a catty swipe by the Celtic nations as from what I've seen from Parma and Viadana, they have facilities to rival some of the Celtic clubs now..

 

[An Tarbh]

well you could make changes but I'm not sure whether the Celtic nations would buy them, there's no reason why you couldn't have 8 sides from the 3 leagues qualifying for the HEC.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

There are a couple of possible concessions I can see being made with regards to qualification for the Heineken Cup by the Magners League.

They could cede the 11th spot (which was a playoff between the third ranked Italian team and the highest non-qualifier from Wales or Ireland). That would see the ML contibute 10 spots (3 Irish, 3 Welsh, 2 Scottish, 2 Italian) with England and France contributing 7 spots each.

Another possibility is that the ML have just one guaranteed qualifier from each participating nation with the remaining 6 places held over for the highest placed teams who haven't qualified. Again there would be 7 English and French qualifier.

An outside bet could see the Magners League expand to 32 teams. The ML doesn't give up a spot with England and France contributing 10 or 11 sides each. The reason I suggest this is that the Challenge Cup is a dead duck without a sponsor. Only the English sides and Connacht treat it as a respectable competition. An expanded HC could see the Challenge Cup cast adrift or see it replaced by a smaller competition between the top couple of teams from the AIL, Welsh and Scottish premierships, National League 1, the Super 10, Pro D2, Iberian and Russian leagues. Such a 2nd tier competition would be a loss maker but would provide an avenue for developing nations to compete at a slightly higher club level.

 

[An Tarbh]

well I think the more viable option is to have 16 teams in the Challenge Cup, the 14 teams not qualified from the ML/GP/Top14 plus one from Romania and one from Spain, giving 4 pools of 4

if you have a HEC (presume this is what you meant) of 32 teams then what format would you have so that it doesn't result in player burnout?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 27 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

if you have a HEC (presume this is what you meant) of 32 teams then what format would you have so that it doesn't result in player burnout?[/b]

It is what I meant. I should re-read what I type before posting it!

8 pools of 4 teams with just the group winner going through would be an option. Perhaps have a last 16 round which would add one game.

 

[Prestwick]

They'll fudge something I'm sure.

Everyone will get their chance at HEC glory no matter how fleeting that chance may be..

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 27 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 27 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if you have a HEC (presume this is what you meant) of 32 teams then what format would you have so that it doesn't result in player burnout?[/b]

It is what I meant. I should re-read what I type before posting it!

8 pools of 4 teams with just the group winner going through would be an option. Perhaps have a last 16 round which would add one game.
[/b][/quote]

yeah but you'd have a much more diluted pool than what you currently get, ok I know some pools are top heavy and others weak as kittens but that's far more interesting than the prospect of 8 pools with probably 2 meaningful matches at most.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 27 2009, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

yeah but you'd have a much more diluted pool than what you currently get, ok I know some pools are top heavy and others weak as kittens but that's far more interesting than the prospect of 8 pools with probably 2 meaningful matches at most.[/b]

Agreed. I wouldn't be in favour of a 32 team tournament (at present) but it may be presented as an option if the French and English clubs want more representation in the HEC.

 

[An Tarbh]

I would think then that the 8 8 8 is a more viable option, it shouldn't really be an issue for the ML sides cause those who have qualified for the knockout stages should have little issue finishing in the top 8, the Blues aside this season.

 

[danit]

the Italian Rugby Board (FIR) had today a meeting where 2 sides had to be selected to be proposed to the Celtic League Board for the 2010/11 season

5 projects had to be evalueted but just 3 of them had real chanches to win

1. Pretoriani Roma (Pretorians Rome): a franchise built by the 2 main Rome clubs, some minor roman clubs in cooperation with some other central-south italy clubs
2. Treviso: the historical club decided to go alone not buildin a franchise, despite the fact that in their area are based some of the more important and traditional clubs (Padova, Rovigo, Venezia)
3. Aironi del Po (Po Herons): a franchise built by Viadana, Parma and many minors clubs (Colorno, mantova, etc.) based in regions Lombardia end Emilia

Pretorians had a strong political support, the advantage to be based in Rome, Stadio Flaminio as home field
Treviso had a very strong financial support by Benetton Group
Airon del Po had a wide support in their area

surprisingly, FIR selected Pretorians and Herons (not official yet but sure)

Treviso, with all his money, and his Region, Veneto, craddle of italian rugby, are out from the elite rugby

the two franchises will be soon introduced to Celtic League board who is going to evaluate all the required parameters (financial, stadiums, etc.) and will decide if to accept the 2 italian sides

 

[feicarsinn]

Stupid imo for Treviso to try and go it alone. Okay I can understand them wanting to retain their identity but they weren't really going to be able to expand their support base substantially without amalgamating with one of the other teams.

 

[Prestwick]

Tapping Viadana to host Aironi del Po is a masterstroke by the FIR.

Seriously, I've been to the Stadio Luigi Zaffanella and it is superb. The Viadana fans are great as are the fans from the two big Parma clubs. The problem is that the photos for the ground are well out of date, they've extended the main stand and have added a large south stand complete with top class physio and training facilities.

Its a bugger to get to (you'll have to organise a coach to get to it from Parma I'm afraid) but the warm welcome, the SUPERB food (best Italian lamb shanks you'll get this side of the Valleys, boyos, TRUST ME ON THIS ONE!!!"W121231643165451741), London Pride on tap and the absolutely amazing fans will make Stadio Luigi probably one of the best on the Magners League calendar in 2010/11!

If any of you want to get to Parma..well..erm..theres a Ryanair flight a day from London Stanstead so I'll tell you guys what, if its Munster playing there, just mail me a jersey and I'll go in your place, deal?

Trust me, it'll be such a chore tasting all that superb wine and eating all that excellent food and the welcome will be sooo annoying, I'll suffer all of this for you

 

[feicarsinn]

I've heard before actually that Viadana leaves alot to be desired in terms of infrastructure, they'll want to sort that out if they're going to host a major franchise.

The next big step will be getting some quality players in. I presume the will aim at getting alot of the national squad currently playing abroad to come back home as well as picking the best talent in the Super 10. Will we likely see a few bigname imports to generate a bit of interest in the teams?

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Jul 20 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I've heard before actually that Viadana leaves alot to be desired in terms of infrastructure, they'll want to sort that out if they're going to host a major franchise.

The next big step will be getting some quality players in. I presume the will aim at getting alot of the national squad currently playing abroad to come back home as well as picking the best talent in the Super 10. Will we likely see a few bigname imports to generate a bit of interest in the teams?[/b]

Well they specified that the players would be all Italian Qualified. But I wouldn't be surprised if they made an exception for each team to make a big name shirt seller signing,

Though if either of them could bring in Parisse I'd probably buy that jersey!