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Izzy Folau

All Black said:
I'm not homosexual and of all the homos I've met, there is not one that I hate. I feel sorry for the homos when I hear their stories of abuse and struggles to be accepted in todays society, even by their own loved ones. I believe in god but I also believe that the worlds big enough for us and homos to live in. I think it's good homos are now coming out and standing up for what they believe in, but thats also what Izzys doing.

It's a tricky situation in that - while we're finally getting homos to come out of the closet, at the same time, it feels like we're asking anti-homos to put their beliefs into a closet (I hope you get my drift). Social media plays a big part here and its new and we're making rules for it as we go. Should Izzy know that he can't post the same stuff that homo-hating Joe Bloggs does? of course he does. Would Izzy think thats fair that Joe can but he can't? of course not.
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I think the simplest answer is that being LGBTQI+ isn't a choice, beliefs are a choice and change all the time

Advocating punishment for something someone has no control over is wrong where as trying to educate people on how broadcasting their beliefs can hurt people what I would saying is one of the things that make up and evolved society
 
Jabby said:
I think the simplest answer is that being LGBTQI+ isn't a choice, beliefs are a choice and change all the time

Advocating punishment for something someone has no control over is wrong where as trying to educate people on how broadcasting their beliefs can hurt people what I would saying is one of the things that make up and evolved society
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Yeah but like I said before, Izzys gonna think he's entitled to post like anyone else does and he's going to feel like he's simply standing up for what he believes in. Its a complicated one, as I said before - we are living in the modern times of social media and the overdue acceptance of homosexuals.
 
TRF_heineken said:
That wasn't a very insightful post. The manner in which you are referring to the people you are pitying, is derogatory, so it's highly unlikely that you are actually having pity towards them...
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No your post wasn't insightful. Thats the truth. You just misinterpret what I wrote with negativity. Actually this is the second time you've read my posts negatively. Don't do that, you'll only stress yourself out.

"No, this is what you are thinking" - Heineken lol.
 
All Black said:
No your post wasn't insightful. Thats the truth. You just misinterpret what I wrote with negativity. Actually this is the second time you've read my posts negatively. Don't do that, you'll only stress yourself out.

"No, this is what you are thinking" - Heineken lol.
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Erm, no.

It's universally known that the term "Homo" or "Homos" when referring to homosexuals, are derogatory in nature.
 
TRF_heineken said:
Erm, no.

It's universally known that the term "Homo" or "Homos" when referring to homosexuals, are derogatory in nature.
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I know homosexuals that call themselves homos, proudly. Also I can't be stuffed typing out the whole word. I'll type gay next time.
 
TRF_heineken said:
Perhaps, but then again, maybe his church doesn't follow the new testament. But yeah, it seems like he/his church only seem to look at certain passages and follow them to the tee.
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His Instagram post was based on Corinthians and Galatians I believe, both New Testament books.
 
TRF_heineken said:
Christianity isn't just about Jesus, because of the connotation of his name and the religion. There are many christian churches who believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Some only believe in God Almighty, and some believe in God and the Holy Spirit without Jesus. Don't ask me how this happened, as I honestly don't have an answer for you. But what I can remember from my Grandfather's explanation is that when the settler's all started to come South Africa's way (and other countries), some of them followed a more German orientated aproach, others followed Catholicism (like the Portuguese) and others followed Dutch or English forms of Christianity. And that was how some religions evolved or combined or split up in SA.
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Hein....I do NOT want to go off topic. I never disagree with you, mostly because I almost always agree, lol......Christianity may not ONLY be about Jesus, but without Him it is not Christianity anymore...it's either a cult or a total other religion.....anything added to the bible, same thing.........The Izzy thing..........the church he belongs to taught him that homosexuality will put you in hell. The actual message is that it(the lifestyle) is a sin(please note that the lifestyle is judged, not the sinner, that will be Jesus' task one day). The same way it's a sin to get divorced and remarry(my life story)......To sin is no guarantee that you will go to hell. Only one sin in the bible clearly states that it is not forgivable and that is sin against the Holy Spirit.....what that is, I do not know...I do not claim to have all the answers.

On the homosexuality topic....yes, I believe it's a sin, I also believe that there is forgiveness for that......that also makes me struggle with my own faith, as someone VERY close to me is really close to "coming out"...close family member.... This person is a true Christian(also my own opinion, but yes, I think you can see this in the person's life). I will support this person as much as possible, once again, only when I have sorted out my own faith will I say anything else than "I support you 100%"....most probably it will be some version of "I support you 100%"......

Make any sense? I think it's the same type of mess my mind is in at this stage regarding homosexuality, but at least I'm really thinking about it!
 
Lourens said:
Hein....I do NOT want to go off topic. I never disagree with you, mostly because I almost always agree, lol......Christianity may not ONLY be about Jesus, but without Him it is not Christianity anymore...it's either a cult or a total other religion.....anything added to the bible, same thing.........The Izzy thing..........the church he belongs to taught him that homosexuality will put you in hell. The actual message is that it(the lifestyle) is a sin(please note that the lifestyle is judged, not the sinner, that will be Jesus' task one day). The same way it's a sin to get divorced and remarry(my life story)......To sin is no guarantee that you will go to hell. Only one sin in the bible clearly states that it is not forgivable and that is sin against the Holy Spirit.....what that is, I do not know...I do not claim to have all the answers.

On the homosexuality topic....yes, I believe it's a sin, I also believe that there is forgiveness for that......that also makes me struggle with my own faith, as someone VERY close to me is really close to "coming out"...close family member.... This person is a true Christian(also my own opinion, but yes, I think you can see this in the person's life). I will support this person as much as possible, once again, only when I have sorted out my own faith will I say anything else than "I support you 100%"....most probably it will be some version of "I support you 100%"......

Make any sense? I think it's the same type of mess my mind is in at this stage regarding homosexuality, but at least I'm really thinking about it!
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I promise I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but can I ask why you believe that homosexual acts are sins? If it is because what is written in the bible, then have you seen some of the other things written in the same book? And do you believe them?

Or if it's just about the parts of the bible your church follows, then can't you just choose what parts to follow yourself? If this person you see as a true Christian then maybe that's proof enough that it shouldn't be considered a sin?

Sorry, I only ask these things because you said you are struggling with your beliefs and hope you can come to a happy conclusion.
 
Feels like we've gone round and round on this topic several times so I'll keep comments briefer than previously;

- language evolves as society does, and talking about someone being gay is more appropriate than calling someone a "homo" it also has half the syllables
- Folau's church preaches from a combination of old and New Testament, but like all churches has chosen certain parts of the bible to focus on and certain parts to cast aside.
- the difference between an individual stating that they are gay, and Folau suggesting other people he doesn't know and has never met are destined for hell can be boiled down to; the former is what someone is proclaiming about themselves, the latter is someone talking disparagingly about a third party
- Folau will no doubt believe he has been wronged which is why we have independent panels to adjudicate on this. Makes me think of shawshank (everybody's innocent in here, don't you know that?)
 
Could I also cautiously challenge Lourens on the difference between the "lifestyle" and the "sinner"? I ask this with reference to the relevant bible passages which Folau has been considering (as above 1 corinthians 6 and Galatians 5) where other groups such as adulterers and drunks are also referenced. These last 2 relate clearly to specific actions that a healthy individual takes as a choice (noting the previous comments in this thread re addiction). Is it your belief that homosexuality a similar choice?

I ask this with no judgement and with genuine inquisitiveness as to the Internal conflict you're facing.
 
Lourens said:
Hein....I do NOT want to go off topic. I never disagree with you, mostly because I almost always agree, lol......Christianity may not ONLY be about Jesus, but without Him it is not Christianity anymore...it's either a cult or a total other religion.....anything added to the bible, same thing.........The Izzy thing..........the church he belongs to taught him that homosexuality will put you in hell. The actual message is that it(the lifestyle) is a sin(please note that the lifestyle is judged, not the sinner, that will be Jesus' task one day). The same way it's a sin to get divorced and remarry(my life story)......To sin is no guarantee that you will go to hell. Only one sin in the bible clearly states that it is not forgivable and that is sin against the Holy Spirit.....what that is, I do not know...I do not claim to have all the answers.

On the homosexuality topic....yes, I believe it's a sin, I also believe that there is forgiveness for that......that also makes me struggle with my own faith, as someone VERY close to me is really close to "coming out"...close family member.... This person is a true Christian(also my own opinion, but yes, I think you can see this in the person's life). I will support this person as much as possible, once again, only when I have sorted out my own faith will I say anything else than "I support you 100%"....most probably it will be some version of "I support you 100%"......

Make any sense? I think it's the same type of mess my mind is in at this stage regarding homosexuality, but at least I'm really thinking about it!
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I'm very similar to you and so I understand almost all of your post. It's a tricky one.
 
All Black said:
I know homosexuals that call themselves homos, proudly. Also I can't be stuffed typing out the whole word. I'll type gay next time.
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That is not a good justification. It's like black people who rib each other by using the N word and then white people justifying calling them the N word because black people call each other that. It's not ok when you're not the subject matter you're referring to. Context is required.
 
The_Blindside said:
That is not a good justification. It's like black people who rib each other by using the N word and then white people justifying calling them the N word because black people call each other that. It's not ok when you're not the subject matter you're referring to. Context is required.
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I do realise that now. I don't know about how many gay men you know but I seem to know quite a bit. Seven to be exact and they use the word homo in their conversations almost all the time and I think it's rubbed off on me to the point where I've forgotten that it was once derogatory, or still is, depending on your circle I guess.
 
Look at the brightside everybody - Folau wont be at the world cup for the Wallabies LOL.
 
Lourens said:
Hein....I do NOT want to go off topic. I never disagree with you, mostly because I almost always agree, lol......Christianity may not ONLY be about Jesus, but without Him it is not Christianity anymore...it's either a cult or a total other religion.....anything added to the bible, same thing.
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This is a whole other topic of conversation. And while I mostly agree with you as I too believe in the Trinity of God (God, Jesus & Holy Spirit), Many Christians don't believe in the new testament. It's not per se about Jesus, but the new testament. As you might know that they mention Jesus or the Messiah in the old testament.

If I can remember correctly, at one stage in history, some of the protestants had a disagreement between some of their more learned priests/apostles. And from there they broke off and started their own church and removed the parts of which they didn't agree with. Now don't quote me on this, but as far as I know, many Christian churches who don't follow the new testament, believe in a messiah who will save them/us all.

Over the centuries there have been many instances where churches broke off and changed a few things and have their own views on certain matters. For example, I know some of the 3-sister churches doesn't sing hymns, but only psalms. While others only use certain versions of the translated Bible, like the 1983 version.

Lourens said:
The Izzy thing..........the church he belongs to taught him that homosexuality will put you in hell. The actual message is that it(the lifestyle) is a sin(please note that the lifestyle is judged, not the sinner, that will be Jesus' task one day). The same way it's a sin to get divorced and remarry(my life story)......To sin is no guarantee that you will go to hell. Only one sin in the bible clearly states that it is not forgivable and that is sin against the Holy Spirit.....what that is, I do not know...I do not claim to have all the answers.
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Yeah, more the act than the person is the sin or as I said in previous posts a wrongful act. And that people will be judged by God, not Jesus. But I get the jist of what you are saying.

Lourens said:
On the homosexuality topic....yes, I believe it's a sin, I also believe that there is forgiveness for that......that also makes me struggle with my own faith, as someone VERY close to me is really close to "coming out"...close family member.... This person is a true Christian(also my own opinion, but yes, I think you can see this in the person's life). I will support this person as much as possible, once again, only when I have sorted out my own faith will I say anything else than "I support you 100%"....most probably it will be some version of "I support you 100%"......

Make any sense? I think it's the same type of mess my mind is in at this stage regarding homosexuality, but at least I'm really thinking about it!
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I understand. And as I've mentioned before my church believes that every person is born with sin, that's why we baptise babies in their first year after being born, as their parents lived in sin. No person on this earth is sin-free, some just sin more than others, but it's the good deeds, repentance and being a good christian that will ultimately prove where you are going after this life.
 
Umaga's Witness said:
I promise I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but can I ask why you believe that homosexual acts are sins? If it is because what is written in the bible, then have you seen some of the other things written in the same book? And do you believe them?

Or if it's just about the parts of the bible your church follows, then can't you just choose what parts to follow yourself? If this person you see as a true Christian then maybe that's proof enough that it shouldn't be considered a sin?

Sorry, I only ask these things because you said you are struggling with your beliefs and hope you can come to a happy conclusion.
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Also answering BobbyM here, not sure how to quote 2 posts.....

Anyways, I take absolutely NO offense. The short answer is I'm not 100% sure...firstly, being a Christian does not mean you are without sin.....therefore the part where I mention that it also is written that when you divorce and marry again you commit sin.....I must repeat I do NOT think I have all the answers.....I admit that I could be wrong on several things, this topic being one of them......

Possibly a reason for my stance on this is yes, it's written there.......it's also a bit highlighted.....it's not sin, it's a REALLY bad sin, direct translated, sorry my english regarding the bible's not that sharp.....and on top of that, I'm 47 years old, grew up with the understanding that it's a sin.......not in the same church anymore(to be honest, haven't been to church for about 5 years.......as I said, lots of thinking in my future.....

To be honest...the person I think is gay(most people do), and who I think is close to coming out, is my son.....20 years old, and a beautiful person. That , and the whole Izzy topic, started me to really think about these things.....

I can't justify my believes, just trying to explain them, and I'm HONEST about my faith......I also do not just accept everything, therefore me taking part in the post(I really did not want to comment).....anyways, I will surely keep on reading here, and keep on thinking about everything written......

PS:Thanx for the reply Hein, appreciate, and yes agree, off topic.....
 
I'm for free speech.
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