Izzy Folau

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by The Alpha Bro, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. scotty507

    scotty507 First XV

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    2,332
    Club or Nation:

    Exeter

    Liking the honest comment because what he said we perfectly true. Epic player but why would a team expose themselves to all that hassell for a 30 year old player you might get 2 years out of and if he posts stuff again you cant fire him or he will sue you.
     
  2. Forum Ad Advertisement

  3. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    100,000,220
    Location:
    Lichfield(ish), UK
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Sale

    Bet his Dad tells him to sue the Bulls for discrimination now
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Derpus

    Derpus Bench Player

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    684
    Country Flag:

    Australia

    Club or Nation:

    Waratahs

    Man straya does not have the talent to lose one of the best two or three players in the world eh.
     
  5. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,493
    Location:
    Tewkesbury
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    Similar to Paddy Jackson - it's about risk / reward.
    The reward isn't worth the risk in any ring-fenced league, but it's possible that a side fighting off relegation or chasing promotion might think that his ability to win matches might be worth the risk of losing a few fans &/ sponsors - would they lose more by being relegated? would they gain more than they lose if they secure promotion?

    Of course, there are also some professional teams where his comments wouldn't cause a stir at all (eg some of the Southern teams in MLR - with the caveat that they're not yet comfortably established, which may increase the risk somewhat)
     
  6. Groundhog

    Groundhog #1 Cuck

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    6,535
    Location:
    Saracens have no fans
    Country Flag:

    Ireland

    Club or Nation:

    Munster

    Honestly given America's rugby community grew mostly from the college scene I don't think it would be very welcome. Also Dallas, Austin, Heuston and New Orleans and Atlanta wouldn't be very conservative cities by Southern standards.
     
  7. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,647
    Location:
    Yurop
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    CASI

    If he is rightfully terminated, as RA claimed, they would need no insurance clause to kick in.
    Insurance companies dont hand in checks they can avoid to pay.

    And the main problem i have with this argument is that it ignores the other side of the equation: how on earth was Folau, who was struggling to pay current legal fees, going to aford such a lenghty and expensive trial with, as RA claims, high chances of losing?

    Excuse me, it IS true. That is precisely the point. Points actually. You understand that under YOUR contract you couldn't do what he did. He (and his lawyers agree with him) thinks he could.
    First, Folau is claiming, precisely, that under his contract he was entitled to post what he did.

    Second, and this is important, Folau's main post on instagram was paraphrasing scripture. This is not some random thought that crossed his mind.
    If u fire someone (w/o comp, course) for paraphrasing the book that states the beliefs of his religion, on his personal instagram account (this could be debated, i know, just give me the benefit of the doubt for a sec), a lot of factors kick in (jurisdiction, freedom of speech laws there, hate speech laws, freedom of worship laws, etc.).
    You would need to deem scripture as some sort of hate speech in order for that to happen. Or to establish that he cannot talk about his religion, which would open another can of worms.
    By you i mean judge/jury, as in a sentence/presedent.
     
  8. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,647
    Location:
    Yurop
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    CASI

    I do and i still think you dont.
    The point is, precisely, that he was paraphrasing scripture and that's why his right to do so on his personal instagram account is protected and supersedes any contract clause.
     
  9. ncurd

    ncurd International

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    7,759
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    That is an opinion and not Australian law and nobody knows where the Australian law actually settles this matter.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. themole25

    themole25 First XV

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,469
    Location:
    Sad Meow
    Club or Nation:

    La Rochelle

    You have a very simplistic view of the legal system. If it worked the way you imagined it the world be a much more efficient place. Unfortunately, people will often settle if they think will win because going to court can be very expensive even if you are a winner.

    All this shows is that the insurer believes they wouldn’t be awarded legal fees with the verdict.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. themole25

    themole25 First XV

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,469
    Location:
    Sad Meow
    Club or Nation:

    La Rochelle

    social conservatives don’t know what rugby is. It’s much bigger in the fiscally conservative crowd. I’d imagine most rugby fans in the United States would be privately okay with paddy Jackson playing here but think it would be bad for rugby’s brand in the us.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Derpus

    Derpus Bench Player

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    684
    Country Flag:

    Australia

    Club or Nation:

    Waratahs

    Man straya does not have the talent to lose one of the best two or three players in the world eh.
    Youre right, the insurance company most likely agreed to the payout rather than risk being liable for the full 10 million.

    Its common for insurance companies to take over court matters which they are covering.

    As to your second point, he crowd funded his case to the tune of 2m. Lots of Christians really dont like gays.
     
  13. ragerancher

    ragerancher International

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,093
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    I take issue with these. Firstly, people keep confusing the general right to free speech with contractual obligations. As an example that is less controversial, civil servants may not openly campaign for a party. This is not deemed a free speech issue as it is accepted that you forfeit the ability to do that as part of your contract with the civil service and their need to at least appear neutral and apolitical. Likewise here, Folau knowingly signed a contract that included clauses about expected behavior as an ambassador of the sport. He broke this clause multiple times (that's the key bit) and received more than 1 warning about his behaviour. He knew what he was doing was against his contractual obligations yet he continued to do it anyway. It's not like he made a passing statement and got the sack, he was a repeat offender.

    The right to free speech does not extend to include an employer may not impose some restrictions as part of your employment

    Secondly as others have stated, payout doesn't always mean you think you'd lose
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Rinkadink

    Rinkadink Bench Player

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2016
    Messages:
    782
    Club or Nation:

    Bristol

    What is scripture, could it be used as a defence for slaughtering all the first born of a people? Couldn't people just pen their own to get away with any hate speech or anything else they wanted?

    I'm curious as to where you think the multiple millions would be recouped from should Rugby Australia have won in court. IF doesn't seem to have any and needed to crowd fund to the tune of several million just for legal costs. Whilst I think of it, as this hasn't gone all the way what's happened to that money?

    What do RA stand to gain from dragging this through the courts aside from "Yeah, you were right" and being massively out of pocket when they can avoid any outgoing costs whatsoever due to the insurance and resolve a situation they didn't create in a satisfactory manner?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    3,835
    Country Flag:

    Scotland

    Club or Nation:

    Italy

    Rumour is that Rugby Australia had to settle because the UK media were going to run a campaign labelling them as anti-semitic for criticising Israel.

    I know what you are saying, but let's not compare Paddy to Folau. One was guilty of nothing more than having a sex drive, an unlocked bedroom door and mates who made idiotic instant messages; the other is openly and unapologetically a bigot. If a rugby chairman considered those situations comparable (which I agree, many will) then I dont consider them well informed.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,819
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Otago

    you said that his actions costing a company money had no relevance to RA's ability to fire him, i pointed out that it is actually standard for that to be the case in AUS, you seem to think his lawyers are the only ones that know anything, i assume that's because of your blind belief he was doing the right thing and that he actually won this.

    the fact he paraphrased make it worse in my mind...it means he put some thought into it rather than just cut and paste

    might i also just point out, Castle has said the settlement was less than the cost of going to court, its been well published that high court costs we expect to be up to $3M, folau was also fund raising for $2-3M...we can safely assume it was less that $3M


    just to add, something thats kept being brought up and then forgotten, Aus doesn't have freedom of speech as an absolute right, that's why whilst he might have been claiming that was the cause he was fighting his legal claim was on religious persecution, just another little bait and switch from this muppet
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  17. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,102
    Country Flag:

    England

  18. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    100,000,220
    Location:
    Lichfield(ish), UK
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Sale

    Been supporting Dragons since maybe 2007?
    No more, though.

    They're taking a big, and really really stupid, risk. RFL have said they'll remove his license to play in Super League and heavily fine Dragons if he says anything out of line.
    He's not stopped saying things that are out of line. He was preaching about the bush fires being God punishing the gays only a month or two ago.


    I did notice that Wigan Warriors have designated their game against Dragons as a Pride game, and will be using it to raise money for LGBTQ+ charities.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  19. mania

    mania First XV

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,273
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Samoa

    im hoping this is yet another nail in folaus playing career. its only a matter of time before he shoots his mouth off. religious zealots cant help themselves.

    awesome how wigan made folau's first game pride day.

    folau cant win here. if he preaches he's fired. if he keeps his mouth shut then he's a hypocrite to his church and father.

    cant wait to watch this car wreck unfold in slow motion. im getting beer and pop corn
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  20. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,354
    Location:
    Coalville
    Country Flag:

    Poland

    Club or Nation:

    Leicester

    No one in the Super League or RFL outside the Dragons seems happy about this signing but they don't appear to be able to stop it.

    He is bound to say something daft and get the sack but it's not a good look for League who were the first national sport to have openly gay players.
     
  21. snoopy snoopy dog dog

    snoopy snoopy dog dog First XV

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,627
    Club or Nation:

    Leinster

    I could be wrong but I don't think there's a TV deal for Super League in France this year. There certainly wasn't a few weeks ago. Perhaps Catalans feel signing Folau is worth the bad press because it's better than no press at all.
     
Enjoyed this thread? Register to post your reply - click here!

Share This Page

-->