Izzy Folau

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He actually has I believe, the Catalan Dragons HC (I think) explained that they had spoken about it and felt that it was a religious decision (that one should only take a knee for ones wife and God) and is a sentiment that has been echoed by a fair few Christians (a black basketballer did it just yesterday I believe).

As much as I dislike Folau and his past actions, that seems like a perfectly good reason to me. If taking a knee is going to start being enforced then it's a pretty meaningless gesture.

 

[McTallshort]

If BLM doesn't resonate with you then why should you take a knee? Support the causes that mean something to you but don't expect everyone else to feel the same.

I am a big supporter of Poppy day but get very uncomfortable when people like John Snow are critized for not wearing one.

Clapping for the NHS became almost a compulsory thing to the point where people were trying to out do each others clapping. It got a bit silly

Making people kneel for a guy killed by police in America is silly. If people want to raise awareness fine but brow beating people into supporting something they probably know nothing about makes me a bit uncomfortable.

 

[ncurd]

So with Folou I firmly believe this is attention grabbing rather than any deep seated belief against kneeling. Mainly because I don't think I've heard any evangelical posit that point ever in opposition. The closest was Raab when he made his stupid GoT statement.

That's him general whilst I agree with the broad question we shouldn't force people to take a knee (and it is becoming a performative piece rather than an actual protest or statement without actions) we should absolutely question why they don't. If they can state grounded reasons with actual logic then it's fine otherwise we certainly should question if they are using any excuse.

For example if Falou's statement about it being tied to his religious beliefs in the actual act kneeling it would a sound reason. Similarly the aforementioned John Snow does actually buy a poppy every year he just refuses to wear one reading the news as he believe as a broadcaster he should not be giving an opinion on what he reporting. In a similar vein I would not expect Snow to wear a BLM pin or take a knee whilst reporting the news.

However if say Snow was to wear other charities pins whilst wearing the news. Or Falou's cited religious beliefs turns out to not be practiced then we can absolutely question why they have chosen this hill to die on.

 

[McTallshort]

So with Folou I firmly believe this is attention grabbing rather than any deep seated belief against kneeling. Mainly because I don't think I've heard any evangelical posit that point ever in opposition. The closest was Raab when he made his stupid GoT statement.

That's him general whilst I agree with the broad question we shouldn't force people to take a knee (and it is becoming a performative piece rather than an actual protest or statement without actions) we should absolutely question why they don't. If they can state grounded reasons with actual logic then it's fine otherwise we certainly should question if they are using any excuse.

For example if Falou's statement about it being tied to his religious beliefs in the actual act kneeling it would a sound reason. Similarly the aforementioned John Snow does actually buy a poppy every year he just refuses to wear one reading the news as he believe as a broadcaster he should not be giving an opinion on what he reporting. In a similar vein I would not expect Snow to wear a BLM pin or take a knee whilst reporting the news.

However if say Snow was to wear other charities pins whilst wearing the news. Or Falou's cited religious beliefs turns out to not be practiced then we can absolutely question why they have chosen this hill to die on.

Why should we?

People should support what resonates with them. Just because something has become a bit of a fad doesn't mean people have support it.

When Diana died the country went mental, if you didn't procrastinate yourself on the alter of the people's Princess the tabloids ripped you to pieces. It was very disturbing. I was on leave from the army at the time and was sat with my dad having a pint and he was telling me the country was losing its grip on reality and most people didn't even know her. He was speaking in his local but had to do it in hushed tones. That should never happen in the UK.

Is Police brutally a problem in the US? Possibly I haven't done much reading up on it.
Do people have a right to show support for a cause like BLM? Yes absolutely.
Do we have the right to question why some people are in different to it? No we ******* don't. It's no one's business but that person's.

 

[ncurd]

Why should we?

Because they are public figures whom request who wish us to listen, give them money and/or power. If they wish to make a public statement by not doing a thing (or alternatively doing a thing) we have every right to scrutinise them for it and make our own judgements on whether we wish to give them those things.

 

[McTallshort]

Because they are public figures whom request who wish us to listen, give them money and/or power. If they wish to make a public statement by not doing a thing (or alternatively doing a thing) we have every right to scrutinise them for it and make our own judgements on whether we wish to give them those things.

No we are talking about rugby players being critized for not taking a knee. These people don't request we listen. You said about Jon Snow actually buys a poppy? Didn't know that because it isn't my business. The fact he had to actually say it isn't right. Why should he have to justify it? We live in a free country, we make our own decisions

 

[ncurd]

No we are talking about rugby players being critized for not taking a knee. These people don't request we listen. You said about Jon Snow actually buys a poppy? Didn't know that because it isn't my business. The fact he had to actually say it isn't right. Why should he have to justify it? We live in a free country, we make our own decisions

They request our money to pay for thier wages either through direct or indirect means. They request our time through watching them play.

Freedom of action is not Freedom from Consequences of those actions and we are free within the law to decide those consequences are. This is a pretty simple conceit for any political viewpoint.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Because they are public figures whom request who wish us to listen, give them money and/or power. If they wish to make a public statement by not doing a thing (or alternatively doing a thing) we have every right to scrutinise them for it and make our own judgements on whether we wish to give them those things.

I had no idea that I have any choice in how much money and/or power Israel Folau is given.

 

[McTallshort]

They request our money to pay for thier wages either through direct or indirect means. They request our time through watching them play.

Freedom of action is not Freedom from Consequences of those actions and we are free within the law to decide those consequences are. This is a pretty simple conceit for any political viewpoint.

So we have to justify we are not racist now?

 

[ncurd]

So we have to justify we are not racist now?

You actions speak of whether you are not racist or not. Falou in this instance has chosen to not take a public action in support of the fight against systemic racism within our society. Thus it is right we should question why he has chosen to not to do so.

 

[McTallshort]

You actions speak of whether you are not racist or not. Falou in this instance has chosen to not take a public action in support of the fight against systemic racism within our society. Thus it is right we should question why he has chosen to not to do so.

Like the old soviet Union condemning someone for not supporting the party line. Deeply disturbing

 

[ncurd]

I had no idea that I have any choice in how much money and/or power Israel Folau is given.

Complicated question ultimately we have very little power but you can chose to, not watch games which he is partaking either in person or on TV. Not buy merchandise from teams he plays for. You can take further indirect actions with the advertising stuff. But unless it happens on mass it becomes very hard. However people are not completely powerless.

Orson Scott Card an author who wrote books that were hugely influential to my life uses the money he gets from said books to fund anti gay groups. As such I took the decision many years ago to not buy his books anymore. Does he still have a vast amount of wealth, yup but at least I don't contribute towards that.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

You actions speak of whether you are not racist or not. Falou in this instance has chosen to not take a public action in support of the fight against systemic racism within our society. Thus it is right we should question why he has chosen to not to do so.

What?

He's justified why he didn't take a knee on a religious basis.

Fundementally, it is an empty act of performative activism that is being pushed by a group with rather worrying links anyway (my reason for not doing it).

There are a million reasons why people haven't taken the knee - it's a really dangerous precedent that you're trying to set here...

 

[ncurd]

Like the old soviet Union condemning someone for not supporting the party line. Deeply disturbing

What utter nonsense.....he's allowed to not do a thing, we are asking him why, if he doesn't give a good reason in out mind or give none we allowed to draw our own conclusions.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ultimately, demanding that anyone should have to justify practicing their religion is more oppressive than not actively taking a knee to support the BLM movement.

 

[ncurd]

What?

He's justified why he didn't take a knee on a religious basis.

Fundementally, it is an empty act of performative activism that is being pushed by a group with rather worrying links anyway (my reason for not doing it).

There are a million reasons why people haven't taken the knee - it's a really dangerous precedent that you're trying to set here...

I don't believe his religious reasons for a start I've stated this. Can anyone point out actual real basis for this? I've never heard of an evangelical state this before.

You stated you reason (I would point out the kneel is from Kapernick and not BLM and a separate gesture, I would also point BLM is a phrase towards a cause of which some groups of people have co opted as their name and are also separate distinct groups with different agendas, BLM to some degree unfortunately it about as oragnised as Occupy Wall Street was). Anyway your reasons are fair you have stated issues with some the actions that a group calling themselves BLM are trying to do this you won't show support for that group. This is a fair arguement from my perspective (as I can only judge you from mine) and still consider you a sound person who sometimes have viewpoint different from mine.

 

[ncurd]

Ultimately, demanding that anyone should have to justify practicing their religion is more oppressive than not actively taking a knee to support the BLM movement.

Show me it's actually against his religion and him saying it is is not a defence is this an actual belief taught by his religious leaders.

 

[McTallshort]

What utter nonsense.....he's allowed to not do a thing, we are asking him why, if he doesn't give a good reason in out mind or give none we allowed to draw our own conclusions.

So if he turned round and said "mind your own business" what conclusions would you draw?

 

[ncurd]

So if he turned round and said "mind your own business" what conclusions would you draw?

That his reasons are ultimately not sound in judgement because he is unable to articulate his reasoning.

 

[ncurd]

Should note I'm not calling Falou a racist, I'm calling him an attention seeking homophobe. Based on his actions in the past.