• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Izzy Folau

Damn.
This thread gone crazy.

I'm not a fan of religion, outside of the presents stuff.
But like it can be a tool for evil I do believe it can be a tool for good, and it is a big part in a lot of people recovery from a bad place.


Although
"That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying anything personal. I'm attacking his beliefs not him himself."
Is rather amusing, is a person beliefs not a part of their personality? which is surely the definition of personal?
In fact aren't beliefs essential to one's personal identity?
 
TRF_heineken said:
I believe every person is born with sin. It's what you do with your life that defines you, and inevitably be judged on...


I'm also passionate about sexual, racial and gender equality. The mistake most people make, is to take everything in the Bible, literally. I'm also very much aware that I live in the 21st century, and that things that weren't "acceptable" in the times of the Bible, might be now, and vice versa.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's a good con. Tell everyone they are born with sin but only we have the ability to cure you. I find the idea abhorrent. Why would god create us with innate sin and then punish us. Born gay, easy, just got to not be gay anymore.

If you feel that passionately about it why do you base your world view on a book that says slavery is moral and homosexuality isn't. Why love a book that was used to treat women as 2nd class citizens for centuries.

I get you want to cherry pick the best bits and leave out all the nasty stuff but at what point do you ask yourself, maybe all this stuff is a load of rubbish and was made up by various people many centuries ago that had little understanding about the world around us.
 
Akker Van Der Tigs said:
Damn.
This thread gone crazy.

I'm not a fan of religion, outside of the presents stuff.
But like it can be a tool for evil I do believe it can be a tool for good, and it is a big part in a lot of people recovery from a bad place.


Although
"That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying anything personal. I'm attacking his beliefs not him himself."
Is rather amusing, is a person beliefs not a part of their personality? which is surely the definition of personal?
Click to expand...
Tigs, that is exactly the problem. As I said to Hein, nothing good can come of this, let everyone get back on topic and bash follau if they want.
 
Akker Van Der Tigs said:
Damn.
This thread gone crazy.

I'm not a fan of religion, outside of the presents stuff.
But like it can be a tool for evil I do believe it can be a tool for good, and it is a big part in a lot of people recovery from a bad place.


Although
"That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying anything personal. I'm attacking his beliefs not him himself."
Is rather amusing, is a person beliefs not a part of their personality? which is surely the definition of personal?
In fact aren't beliefs essential to one's personal identity?
Click to expand...
What's your alternative? Never say anything bad or criticise what people believe? I'm not calling him names or getting personal. I'm challenging his beliefs.
 
Lourens said:
Tigs, that is exactly the problem. As I said to Hein, nothing good can come of this, let everyone get back on topic and bash follau if they want.
Click to expand...
No. Nothing good can come from discussion. Another thing religion has done a good thing of preventing over the centuries.
 
Welsh Exile said:
What's your alternative? Never say anything bad or criticise what people believe? I'm not calling him names or getting personal. I'm challenging his beliefs.
Click to expand...
It's fine to challenge my beliefs, I'm not holding that against you, in fact, I'm not holding anything against you. Just because you want to challenge my faith, doesn't mean you would change my mind on what I believe in.

You can go on your tirade for eternity, and still not change my faith.
 
Welsh Exile said:
What's your alternative? Never say anything bad or criticise what people believe? I'm not calling him names or getting personal. I'm challenging his beliefs.
Click to expand...
W.E, what is the difference between me dissing gays(which I don't), and you dissing Christianity?Freedom of religion demands the same amount of respect as the rest, friend.....practice what you preach. Don't bash ANYONE, no matter what....that is what makes me different than you.
 
Welsh Exile said:
What's your alternative? Never say anything bad or criticise what people believe? I'm not calling him names or getting personal. I'm challenging his beliefs.
Click to expand...

Maybe try and find out said person's beliefs........

What you are talking about is more bibliolatry than Christianity IMO
 
Lourens said:
W.E, what is the difference between me dissing gays(which I don't), and you dissing Christianity?Freedom of religion demands the same amount of respect as the rest, friend.....practice what you preach. Don't bash ANYONE, no matter what....that is what makes me different than you.
Click to expand...
I dunno I'm quite happy to diss racists and they don't have a leg to stand on as far as I'm concerned.

Religions (in general) however are fine I'm just pointing out sometimes people freedom of expression does need bashing. And you should always be specific in your bashing the Roman Catholic Church for example teaches some pretty bad stuff amongst some good. As does some sects of Islam.
 
Lourens said:
W.E, what is the difference between me dissing gays(which I don't), and you dissing Christianity?Freedom of religion demands the same amount of respect as the rest, friend.....practice what you preach. Don't bash ANYONE, no matter what....that is what makes me different than you.
Click to expand...
I will call out books I deem immoral. I wil especially do that with books that are, by many people, held up to be the most moral of book ever written and who many believe to be the literal word of god.

Racist, sexist and homophobic stuff needs to be called out. If you say "I ignore those bits of the bible" then I'd say you might need to revaluate what you're basing your world view on.
 
ncurd said:
I dunno I'm quite happy to diss racists and they don't have a leg to stand on as far as I'm concerned.

Religions (in general) however are fine I'm just pointing out sometimes people freedom of expression does need bashing. And you should always be specific in your bashing the Roman Catholic Church for example teaches some pretty bad stuff amongst some good. As does some sects of Islam.
Click to expand...
I believe there is no place in heaven for racists. I(personally, NOT all Christians) also do not believe that the Roman Catholic church is a Christian church. Some preaching, lol....we had a sermon about this....how you can differentiate between a sect and a true christian church, is that in the christian church it's all about Jesus, in the sect it's a little about Jesus, and then mostly about other people and things....why I believe that about the Roman Catholic church is a topic for another LONG discussion.
 
Welsh Exile said:
I will call out books I deem immoral. I wil especially do that with books that are, by many people, held up to be the most moral of book ever written and who many believe to be the literal word of god.

Racist, sexist and homophobic stuff needs to be called out. If you say "I ignore those bits of the bible" then I'd say you might need to revaluate what you're basing your world view on.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to play your game, friend....I never said ignore bits of the Bible. To the people that matters, true Christians, it's easy. I do not need to revaluate anything, just the opposite....I HAVE reevaluated most of the things in my life, that makes me who I am. You are welcome to call out anything. Just don't get personal. Find out what makes YOU the person you am. Done with this topic.
 
Welsh Exile said:
He said he took offence at me calling the bible a fictional book.
Click to expand...

Technically he said he took exception to that.
You seem more focused on the bible than the religion which is what bibliolatry is and I believe it is something that has increasingly growing in all religions as anyone can interpreted books in anyway.

I think you also have to understand the bible isn't really one book but many books. It's an anthology. Which is why your comment about written by one guy is massively false.
 
TRF_heineken said:
It's fine to challenge my beliefs, I'm not holding that against you, in fact, I'm not holding anything against you. Just because you want to challenge my faith, doesn't mean you would change my mind on what I believe in.

You can go on your tirade for eternity, and still not change my faith.
Click to expand...
Cool, I'm glad we agree on this now then. It's just that you said how horribly offensive I was being but if we now both agree that it's ok for me to challenge your beliefs and vice versa then all good.

Yeah, most people are pretty entrenched in their views I suppose but as long as you carry on cherry picking the good stuff and ignoring the bad then ok, it's intellectually dishonest but that's not the worst thing.
 
Akker Van Der Tigs said:
Technically he said he took exception to that.
You seem more focused on the bible than the religion which is what bibliolatry is and I believe it is something that has increasingly growing in all religions as anyone can interpreted books in anyway.

I think you also have to understand the bible isn't really one book but many books. It's an anthology. Which is why your comment about written by one guy is massively false.
Click to expand...
Did I say one person wrote it? I agreed with Hein that several people, in all likelihood, contributed to it, many years after Jesus' death but that's irrelevant to me anyway.

What's pertinent is whether you believe it's the word of god, if not then why would you believe a book that, by your own admission, has some pretty abhorrent stuff in it? I'm interested in how people rationalise that decision.
 
Welsh Exile said:
I will call out books I deem immoral. I wil especially do that with books that are, by many people, held up to be the most moral of book ever written and who many believe to be the literal word of god.

Racist, sexist and homophobic stuff needs to be called out. If you say "I ignore those bits of the bible" then I'd say you might need to revaluate what you're basing your world view on.
Click to expand...

Yet, the Bible is one of the things that is used the most in topics of Ethics and Morality. You have a problem with homophobia and slavery. So you then bash the whole book??

I guess you are then fine with Murder, Stealing, Raping????
 
Lourens said:
I'm not going to play your game, friend....I never said ignore bits of the Bible. To the people that matters, true Christians, it's easy. I do not need to revaluate anything, just the opposite....I HAVE reevaluated most of the things in my life, that makes me who I am. You are welcome to call out anything. Just don't get personal. Find out what makes YOU the person you am. Done with this topic.
Click to expand...
You don't ignore any bits on the bible? Do you think being gay is a sin?
 
Welsh Exile said:
Did I say one person wrote it? I agreed with Hein that several people, in all likelihood, contributed to it, many years after Jesus' death but that's irrelevant to me anyway.

What's pertinent is whether you believe it's the word of god, if not then why would you believe a book that, by your own admission, has some pretty abhorrent stuff in it? I'm interested in how people rationalise that decision.
Click to expand...

Again I'm not religious....
 

Latest posts

Top