Jonny W vs Dan Carter

[McTallshort]

Wilkinson is good at what he does, perhaps the best at what he does. Wilkinson is great with a good pack behind him. Carter though can produce magic at any moment and turn a game on its head. Wilkinson can't do that. Carter is basically everything you could ever want from a first five. Anyone who thinks Wilkinson is better should watch the 2005 2nd Lions test. I have never seen a better individual performance from an All Black.

Yeah remember a game in 2002 against the All Blacks when Wilkinson produced a fantastic try from nothing and turn a game on its head....how about a drop goal in the last minute of extra time against Australia in Australia on his wrong foot to win a world cup final turned that game on it head

 

[irelandfan123]

people Jackie Kyle was better than both these lads and he was from Northern Ireland which makes him class

 

[nickdnz]

Wilkinson!!!! Simply because Jonny has been more important for his teams, of what has been Carter on their temas. Wilkinson had more interference. In the England Team 2003, Wilkinson was the soul of the team, the most important player. While in the New Zealand Team 2011, Carter was a player, so when injured, they could replace it without problems despite their absence could be champions, while the England team 2003 could never have won the RWC without Wilkinson.

Yeah but Carter always played on a team that does more tries, New Zealand usually wins more matches than England and so they make more attempts. As for Carter's easier to make more points on a team that attacks more and made more tries as All Blacks. So it's more meritorious than Wilkinson has almost as many points as Carter, in a team that wins fewer games than New Zealand.

But Carter was fortunate to have integrated best teams that Jonny, comparison is unfair that way. Crusaders and All Blacks are best teams of the teams that played Jonny (England, Newcastle Falcons and Toulon)

Regards

My point is that the reason Dan Carter plays with the teams that scores more tries etc, is because he is a better playmaker. Wilkinson's England didn't score that many tries (especially when Dawson + Greenwood left as they were the creativity of 2003) because he is not a very good playmaker. In terms of importance - in 2009 DC was injured during the Tri Nations - we got thrashed. Comparing 2003 for Wilkinson to 2011 for Dan Carter is hardly fair. Who knows what the score would have been had Carter not been injured - more impressive than 8-7 I bet.

 

[William18]

Yeah remember a game in 2002 against the All Blacks when Wilkinson produced a fantastic try from nothing and turn a game on its head....how about a drop goal in the last minute of extra time against Australia in Australia on his wrong foot to win a world cup final turned that game on it head

I said 'at any moment.' Doing it once is not my definition of 'at any moment.' Notice I never criticised Wilkinson's kicking game - he was a better tactical kicker than Carter. I would never criticise Wilkinson's drop goals either. The fact that you had to point to two examples of kicks to showcase Wilkinson's magic shows his limitations compared to Carter. Carter has scored tries like that one from Wilkinson, has Wilkinson scored one like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WymtGS2vsk. Nothing too flashy there but is anyone going to tell me Wilkinson has that fend or that pace?

 

[William18]

Wilkinson!!!! Simply because Jonny has been more important for his teams, of what has been Carter on their temas. Wilkinson had more interference. In the England Team 2003, Wilkinson was the soul of the team, the most important player. While in the New Zealand Team 2011, Carter was a player, so when injured, they could replace it without problems despite their absence could be champions, while the England team 2003 could never have won the RWC without Wilkinson.



Yeah but Carter always played on a team that does more tries, New Zealand usually wins more matches than England and so they make more attempts. As for Carter's easier to make more points on a team that attacks more and made more tries as All Blacks. So it's more meritorious than Wilkinson has almost as many points as Carter, in a team that wins fewer games than New Zealand.

Regards



But Carter was fortunate to have integrated best teams that Jonny, comparison is unfair that way. Crusaders and All Blacks are best teams of the teams that played Jonny (England, Newcastle Falcons and Toulon)

Regards

I don't think you can judge it on 'importance.' Importance brings in all sorts of other factors other than each player's ability. Carter isn't that important to the All Blacks now because we have Cruden who is a more than capable back up. That doesn't say anything about Carter though. If Carter was playing in the final, we would have won by more than 8-7. He would have kicked the penalty goals, for sure. Even if importance was an important factor, I don't think you can say Wilkinson was more important. England's world cup win was based upon their dominant forward pack.

 

[Big Ewis]

I said 'at any moment.' Doing it once is not my definition of 'at any moment.' Notice I never criticised Wilkinson's kicking game - he was a better tactical kicker than Carter. I would never criticise Wilkinson's drop goals either. The fact that you had to point to two examples of kicks to showcase Wilkinson's magic shows his limitations compared to Carter. Carter has scored tries like that one from Wilkinson, has Wilkinson scored one like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WymtGS2vsk. Nothing too flashy there but is anyone going to tell me Wilkinson has that fend or that pace?

I'm not questioning Carter's better than Wilkinson generally speaking, but the English defense got caught by surprise there and has about the intensity they'd have against a side like Sri Lanka, that defense is absolutely ridiculous. Hardly a good example for this thread man, out of aaaaaaaall the good Carter tries out there.

Who knows what the score would have been had Carter not been injured - more impressive than 8-7 I bet.

...don't push it buddy !!

 

[nickdnz]

 

[dasNdanger]

Now that we're back to JW & DC - and after having read through the thread - I'm still going to go with Carter simply because his performance has been more consistent, his reputation not reliant on a handful of brilliant plays. Every player at one time or another has made a brilliant play or a jaw-dropping goal, but in the end it's the guy who, game after game, comes through for the team even if it's not in the most spectacular of ways. A player who makes the difference in many small ways is far more important than the guy who may or may not pull off a great play now and then. At least that's how I'm seeing it right now.


das

 

[dullonien]

Yeah that's the game I was on about. He was sublime throughout.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ yep...yep, remember that one...
I mean, as if his textbook fundamentals for no.10 weren't excellent enough, he's got that crazy ability to actually score tries, writhe through defenses. I haven't seen anyone do it like him, or not many at least.
From the tv angle, I'm watching him carry and subconsciously I foresee a big tackle on him and a ruck forming...but NO, he's still going, he's gotten past 3 defenders who were waiting for him RIGHT THERE...it's just simply ridiculous.

 

[William18]

I'm not questioning Carter's better than Wilkinson generally speaking, but the English defense got caught by surprise there and has about the intensity they'd have against a side like Sri Lanka, that defense is absolutely ridiculous. Hardly a good example for this thread man, out of aaaaaaaall the good Carter tries out there.




...don't push it buddy !!

Yeah, I know. I accepted that by calling it 'nothing too flashy.' The point is even if Wilkinson was faced with that poor defending I doubt he would have had the pace or the fend to score the try. I was trying to showcase Carter's running game and so did not want to reply with a try where he kicked the ball.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ well how could Wilkinson be faced with that poor defending when it's England !
(nah....just being fkn annoying..)