Jonny W vs Dan Carter

[dullonien]

Anyone who thinks Wilkinson is better should watch the 2005 2nd Lions test. I have never seen a better individual performance from an All Black.

Another Carter performance vs. Wales in 2010 was also pretty special. Not quite the same quality opposition as the Lions with Wales fielding a mixed team, but I remember thinking that he was just unplayable in that game. I believe it was the first test.

 

[RWC2011Fan]

For me it goes -

1. Carter
2. Larkham
3. Wilkinson
4. Mehrtens
5. Spencer

Everyone below Carter is arguable - except Spencer who has to be at the bottom.

Your list needs Dan Parks.

 

[psychic duck]

For me it goes -

1. Carter
2. Larkham
3. Wilkinson
4. Mehrtens
5. Spencer

Everyone below Carter is arguable - except Spencer who has to be at the bottom.

Pretty accurate list. For me it would be:

1. Carter
2. Daylight
3. Wilkinson (2000-2003)
4. Larkham
5. Mehrtens

Other ones Nick Evans, Spencer, Hernández (2005-08) and Giteau (even though he did cost them a game to Scotland once) floating just beneath there.

 

[munstermuffin]

Mate show me O'Gara playing well against the All Blacks... Exactly! DHumps is where it is at whore

Big difference been better than ROG against All Blacks and been considered best in the world. Add in fact Humphreys never played in a team that beat and Southern Hemisphere team

 

[psychic duck]

Big difference been better than ROG against All Blacks and been considered best in the world. Add in fact Humphreys never played in a team that beat and Southern Hemisphere team

Stop bringing up ROG in every thread MunsterMuffin.

 

[munstermuffin]

Stop bringing up ROG in every thread MunsterMuffin.

I didn't bring him in but on que you read it wrong like articles you dream of our matches, possibly missed it because it not on YouTube or you just at home wish hatred and ill faith on ROG.
As I said I think you first person I know that'd probably take satisfaction if he dropped dead.

 

[psychic duck]

I didn't bring him in but on que you read it wrong like articles you dream of our matches, possibly missed it because it not on YouTube or you just at home wish hatred and ill faith on ROG.
As I said I think you first person I know that'd probably take satisfaction if he dropped dead.

Interesting you say I "dream of" them despite finding the footage to prove it. You are being delusional to avoid the point MunsterMuffin.

 

[munstermuffin]

Can I see footage of game where Contepomi went off injured in a HEC game when 12-6 up or game where Leinster won 30-6. ?????

As I said I wont bother with you though call me disillusioned but I'd never hate a player as much as you, wish ill health on a player as much as you, be so obsessed with hatred on 1 player and have such a passion to slate a player needlessly but I suppose that who you are. Won't reply anymore before I get a ban

As I said too you'd probably dance on the mans grave in front of his wife and kids slating him with Youtube clips such is your hatred like why would you even start a comment to me in this thread when I replied to Irelandfan (in something nothing to do with ROG) and well start again. But as I said you can hate him all you like

 

[psychic duck]

Can I see footage of game where Contepomi went off injured in a HEC game when 12-6 up or game where Leinster won 30-6. ?????

Again avoiding the point. I admitted the mistake, most just correct the mistake and move on to the point, but you are finding it nice way of avoiding the actual point.

As I said I wont bother with you though call me disillusioned but I'd never hate a player as much as you, wish ill health on a player as much as you, be so obsessed with hatred on 1 player and have such a passion to slate a player needlessly but I suppose that who you are. Won't reply anymore before I get a ban

You are delusional. I don't know how you jump from me saying my opinion and debating his quality on the pitch and his interviews off it, and turn that into me wanting him dead. But you did.

 

[munstermuffin]

What is your actual point that is so big you want it on every thread???

You think ROG is overrated **** arrogant overachieved off back of everyone elses work whatever ok you've said it on thread after thread after thread now move on and **** off instead of youtube clip after youtube clip and hatred after hatred. That how you feel but by god you like a broken record on thread after thread same **** every day and as I said you live on Youtube but my point is use articles clips and whatever well advise - Know full facts behind articles, watch matches live instead of youtube and comment on games instead of ****ing guessing. You made mistake twice about HEC semifinal now you must be fair stupid so arguin Contepomi was having great game in that 20 min period and was changing game anyway and saying it was 12-6 and then saying I made mistake final score was 30-6 (wrong again). But as I said I not arguing with you because I don't take you serious or respect you enough and just dislike anyone having such hatred for a player they don't even know so good luck. Won't reply no more to you.

 

[psychic duck]

What is your actual point that is so big you want it on every thread???

You think ROG is overrated **** arrogant overachieved off back of everyone elses work whatever ok you've said it on thread after thread after thread now move on and **** off instead of youtube clip after youtube clip and hatred after hatred. That how you feel but by god you like a broken record on thread after thread same **** every day and as I said you live on Youtube but my point is use articles clips and whatever well advise - Know full facts behind articles, watch matches live instead of youtube and comment on games instead of ****ing guessing. You made mistake twice about HEC semifinal now you must be fair stupid so arguin Contepomi was having great game in that 20 min period and was changing game anyway and saying it was 12-6 and then saying I made mistake final score was 30-6 (wrong again). But as I said I not arguing with you because I don't take you serious or respect you enough and just dislike anyone having such hatred for a player they don't even know so good luck. Won't reply no more to you.

You have a go at me for "guessing" and getting "facts wrong" whilst in the same post you yourself are guessing and getting facts wrong. Stop being hypocritical.

I not being malicious and I doubt you can find any post to back you up of your theory of death sentences either. You're the one that brought that up.

 

[Big Ewis]

Not really a rarity anymore. There are now as many good defenders if not more who hold their own at 10 defensively (Butch James, Sexton, Farrell, Contepomi, Biggar, Carter) as ones who are just doormats and are pretty weak (O'Gara, Orquera, Parks, Michalak).

you're right...Farrell is impressively accurate and dedicated on defense...some times I'll see a nice hit from afar, and then on the replay I'll notice it's actually Farrell (!). He's got some meat on him for a young fella, and a fly-half...
Carter with age has bulked up, it's true...Biggar's pretty strong for his position...yeh, I guess we can call this a part of the evolution of the sport at pro level...it's required (or appreciated) the little no.10's can bite on defense..

Anyone who thinks Wilkinson is better should watch the 2005 2nd Lions test. I have never seen a better individual performance from an All Black.

I concur. This needed to be mentioned here. Not as an isolated example where Carter just clicked, but as a confirmation of everything that can be said about his game. The pinnacle of his ability. (we're talking about the one where Carter...ahemm NZ dropped 48 right ?)

 

[nickdnz]

What is your actual point that is so big you want it on every thread???

You think ROG is overrated **** arrogant overachieved off back of everyone elses work whatever ok you've said it on thread after thread after thread now move on and **** off instead of youtube clip after youtube clip and hatred after hatred. That how you feel but by god you like a broken record on thread after thread same **** every day and as I said you live on Youtube but my point is use articles clips and whatever well advise - Know full facts behind articles, watch matches live instead of youtube and comment on games instead of ****ing guessing. You made mistake twice about HEC semifinal now you must be fair stupid so arguin Contepomi was having great game in that 20 min period and was changing game anyway and saying it was 12-6 and then saying I made mistake final score was 30-6 (wrong again). But as I said I not arguing with you because I don't take you serious or respect you enough and just dislike anyone having such hatred for a player they don't even know so good luck. Won't reply no more to you.

You have a go at me for "guessing" and getting "facts wrong" whilst in the same post you yourself are guessing and getting facts wrong. Stop being hypocritical.

I not being malicious and I doubt you can find any post to back you up of your theory of death sentences either. You're the one that brought that up.

Calm it down guys - it's clearly not that important. Let's just agree O'Gara isn't everyones cup of tea.

 

[dullonien]

Neither duck nor munstermuffin are being all that rational about things regarding O'Gara, but then he's an easy bloke to dislike, whilst munsermuffin is obviously biased due to the Munster connection.

I will say one thing though, munstermuffin there's no need to resort to personal attacks. There is nothing in ducks posts that suggest he would be happy to see O'Gara dead and would dance on his grave if it happened. I feel this is a little uncalled for, and you're posting it constantly at the moment. Understand that there are plenty of people out there that dislike O'Gara whether it be due to his personality, his playing style, or the manner in which he messed up for the Lions in 2009.

Duck, you also have to accept that there are some out there (not just mustermuffin) who really rate O'Gara. He certainly had a few strings to his bow which enabled him to win the ***les he did with Munster and Ireland.

I think it's about time it got left there, because you are both now just posting the same things over-and-over. it's getting a little boring really.

Edit. I also think that people need to get off duck's back about the clips he posts. Some people may find it a little irritating, but he uses them to try to back-up the things he is saying, in the same way an essay is backed up by select quotes from other books etc. (yes I just handed in an essay, hopefully my final essay ever in fact!) I personally find them useful. It's surely better than posting unsubstantiated comments?

 

[lynam1104]

Neither duck nor munstermuffin are being all that rational about things regarding O'Gara, but then he's an easy bloke to dislike, whilst munsermuffin is obviously biased due to the Munster connection.

I will say one thing though, munstermuffin there's no need to resort to personal attacks. There is nothing in ducks posts that suggest he would be happy to see O'Gara dead and would dance on his grave if it happened. I feel this is a little uncalled for, and you're posting it constantly at the moment. Understand that there are plenty of people out there that dislike O'Gara whether it be due to his personality, his playing style, or the manner in which he messed up for the Lions in 2009.

Duck, you also have to accept that there are some out there (not just mustermuffin) who really rate O'Gara. He certainly had a few strings to his bow which enabled him to win the ***les he did with Munster and Ireland.

I think it's about time it got left there, because you are both now just posting the same things over-and-over. it's getting a little boring really.

+1

 

[irelandfan123]

People your missing the point David Humps played for Ulster meaning he is naturally the best ever (Thats if we are not counting Jack Kyle the actual best fly half ever...)

 

[nickdnz]

Edit. I also think that people need to get off duck's back about the clips he posts. Some people may find it a little irritating, but he uses them to try to back-up the things he is saying, in the same way an essay is backed up by select quotes from other books etc. (yes I just handed in an essay, hopefully my final essay ever in fact!) I personally find them useful. It's surely better than posting unsubstantiated comments?

+1
Personally I love the clips and gifs. Huge amount of effort but sometimes I think with posters "wonder where he got that idea from" - at least with PD I can see examples of what he means. Way better than "I think this but won't bother to back it up" - which is often what posters including myself do.

 

[dasNdanger]

Okay, a question...

If he remains at fly half and doesn't end up on an indefinite DL list, do you think in 5 years or so James O'Connor will be added to this discussion?




das

 

[nickdnz]

Okay, a question...

If he remains at fly half and doesn't end up on an indefinite DL list, do you think in 5 years or so James O'Connor will be added to this discussion?

das

I don't think so. Mainly because I don't think he has yet shown enough at 1st 5/8th. Personally I actually think Bernard Foley has been the most exciting 10 prospect this season.

 

[Jaguares]

Wilkinson!!!! Simply because Jonny has been more important for his teams, of what has been Carter on their temas. Wilkinson had more interference. In the England Team 2003, Wilkinson was the soul of the team, the most important player. While in the New Zealand Team 2011, Carter was a player, so when injured, they could replace it without problems despite their absence could be champions, while the England team 2003 could never have won the RWC without Wilkinson.

Carter still averages more points than Wilkinson in international rugby. He's scored over 100 more points than Wilkinson in fewer international games (so that 4 year argument doesn't work at all). Daniel Carter has also scored more test tries than any other 10 in history with 29 (equal with Giteau, but many of Giteau's weren't at 10).

Yeah but Carter always played on a team that does more tries, New Zealand usually wins more matches than England and so they make more attempts. As for Carter's easier to make more points on a team that attacks more and made more tries as All Blacks. So it's more meritorious than Wilkinson has almost as many points as Carter, in a team that wins fewer games than New Zealand.

Regards

Wilkinson is good at what he does, perhaps the best at what he does. Wilkinson is great with a good pack behind him. Carter though can produce magic at any moment and turn a game on its head. Wilkinson can't do that. Carter is basically everything you could ever want from a first five. Anyone who thinks Wilkinson is better should watch the 2005 2nd Lions test. I have never seen a better individual performance from an All Black.

But Carter was fortunate to have integrated best teams that Jonny, comparison is unfair that way. Crusaders and All Blacks are best teams of the teams that played Jonny (England, Newcastle Falcons and Toulon)

Regards