Jonny Wilko - popularity rating

[Big Ewis]

This is rather directed towards the English fans on here (nothing to do with my recent messages about English rugby...srsly ! )

As he's sort of the perfect fellow, has achieved almost everything there is to achieve for a Rugby pro, including a RWC trophy and Grand Slam the same year. Brilliant kicker, crazy dedication, and even this: at fly half, a position most players are criticized for their defense he'd turned into a fierce individual threat on the field...

I was just wondering, in light of how heroic and how he's just, comically even, such a 'perfect role model', good looking, polite/well-mannered, gathered, bi-lingual...I was wondering if he actually had any haters, or at least some cast of anti-conformists who somehow find something to not like about him. I'd imagine you can't go wrong with Jonny in England.

 

[nickdnz]

Hard to criticize him as what he does well, he does very well. That said he's a pretty limited playmaker which is probably something I value over being a reliable goal kicker. He's one of those guys that the hype sometimes annoys me through no fault of his own. Unlike O'Driscoll who can just **** me off, but I won't get into that.

 

[McTallshort]

Like I said before great player but complete basket case

 

[Jbobo]

World class in his day and still has strengths which far outweigh his weaknesses.

 

[Peat]

I am watching this thread closely with a large stack of firewood, some petrol, and a couple of firelighters, ready to correct any heresies about St J of W

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like him.

 

[William18]

He won a world cup - more than most people ever do. Down here we don't really rate him that highly. He is good at doing his core skills well. He was an excellent kicker, good defender and good distributor. However, we don't like our first-five to unleash the attack - he should be part of the attack. English fans should definitely remember him well - he has done a lot for them over the years.

 

[lynam1104]

Hes a player I respect for his professionalism and drive not a fan of his style .

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

Great player in his day and still a class act.A genuinely nice bloke from I've seen too.Think it's the North Korean style worship he gets from some parts of the media that puts some non English people off.

 

[Sam Owen]

Wilko was the man in his time and a vital part of the world champion english side. The first ever goal kicker that Ive seen, look as though he was going to bat the ball over with his invisible bat which has paved the way for all these other unusual stances before shots at goal. World class first five.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Limited, but very good at what he does. In a team that's going well he's very good to have, makes his kicks, very strong defensively, seems to make few enough errors. Yet he's not a game changer by any means. Wilko isn't the man you need if you're 6 points down in the last 10 and sat in your own half. Considering the type of game that Toulon play, he's the perfect 10 for them.

 

[dullonien]

Always slightly overrated imo. I think some believe that in his prime he was as good as Carter, but he lacked the all round game to be considered that good. However, few outhalves in history rival Carter's all round excellence, so that still means Wilko was a top player in his prime who suited the England team of the era. He didn't shine as much behind an average Newcastle forward pack.

He's now behind another strong pack at Toulon, where his excellent place kicking and solid defence fits like a glove. Still offers very little going forward (Toulon have brought in Gitau to counter that), and I don't think his kicking from hand is that great.

So as Feicarsinn has already said: Limited but very good at what he does.

 

[psychic duck]

He was better at creating in his earlier days. When England were at their best between 2001-2003, Wilkinson was actually very good at making breaks (http://youtu.be/3MZwjAJ84vk?t=7m10s). Somebody like Farrell or O'Gara wouldn't have any clips of him doing that in attack in their career, never mind against New Zealand, South Africa and Grand Slam deciders against Ireland, neither would even running fly halves like Hook for example produce runs like that against that opposition either actually.

But when however as he got older after his injury he kicked too often and too long, and basically turned into more of a Farrell type player when previously he was far better than that. Still a good player, but good no longer great. And RWC 2011 was a nightmare end to his international career.

I also think that the 3/4 year state of permanent injury effected him, and that isn't considered enough when judging him, and some forget that he could attack well earlier in his career. It's a similar situation to Juan Martín Hernández who had a similar lengthy absence of back injuries, he didn't come back as good and now people often slate him and forget how good he was at his best between 2005-2007. Both of them were great at their best, but merely decent/good when they returned.

 

[dullonien]

Got to admit, I've probably forgotten how good his attacking game was back then.

 

[Draggs]

Great player, unfair to both to compare him to Carter.

 

[Aristodemus]

Was very good for a while, injuries really hurt his career though. He is and was given too much credit for his role in 2003 and to me it feels wrong that most people in the street won't remember Richard Hill at all. I thought England stuck with him way too long, especially the WC in 2011 where he was very poor. I can't fault him as a bloke though, and it would be nice if he added a HC to his CV.

 

[Tony Manx]

World class in his day and still has strengths which far outweigh his weaknesses.

+1

 

[psychic duck]

Was very good for a while, injuries really hurt his career though. He is and was given too much credit for his role in 2003 and to me it feels wrong that most people in the street won't remember Richard Hill at all. I thought England stuck with him way too long, especially the WC in 2011 where he was very poor. I can't fault him as a bloke though, and it would be nice if he added a HC to his CV.

Willkinson himself has said he felt uncomfortable of the media adulation he got in what was a team effort (http://youtu.be/pkzp14ZAef4?t=1m10s). Yet unfortunately some people like SelimNiai like to despise him and slate him simply because of media coverage he gets as an icon of the sport which he himself was uncomfortable with and didn't choose his own press.

 

[Big Ewis]

see, interesting thread (answers) after all. I'd have imagined some sarcastic replies to the obviousness of the question and a gigantic unanimous YES.

I'd like to disagree with the ppl saying "in his day in his day...", I feel Wilkinson again fits that "perfection" dimension in that he's given himself the chance and conditioned himself for a fantastic after-career. He's won a GS and RWC the same year, has had success individually throughout no matter the state of the rest of the team he was on; and now, 10 years after his prime he's leading the most dominant team of the Top 14, he's still hammering down some dudes on defense, still throwing those solid passes and making 103% of his kicks at age 47 ffs. He just never goes wrong. Sure he's not a god, but what he does he does with tremendous consistency, work ethic and discipline AND QUALITY. And those things he does...happen to be the most important elements of the fly-half game mind you.

Oh and I read "he was over-rated for his role in 2003". Well surely you must have arguments to back that up, but as a Frenchman I should say this, England knocked France out with Wilko. Sure the forwards were doing their work, but THREE DROP GOALS in a semi-final and 24 points exclusively off kicks VS one french try. Not to mention the last 3 points scored, that tournament...
I think if England had anybody else in stead of Wilkinson, they lose a small handful of those matches during that golden 2001-03 era. For one, they'd never have won in NZ in June 2003, that's just a fact. The wind out there was crazy and he nailed every single one when the kiwi kicker was missing everything, England won by A POINT. And I'd put a match like 2003 6N ENG FRA on hold, not that we'd have won, but hey who knows when penalties/drops aren't falling SYSTEMATICALLY as when you have Wilko.
He was the perfect man for the job on that England team.

Call things what they are.

No need to call out the name Dan Carter on this thread. I don't think too many ppl doubt that Carter is better. Carter is just this ridiculous gift to a sport, I believe he's as great (or almost) as MJordan was for the NBA. Which is Tier miraculous. They're just these complete aliens, these freaks...J.S.Bach for composition, they're just inhuman.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I like him, he's incredibly modest for what he's achieved and to hear what he puts himself through in his book is inspirational and a little bit scary.

The latter stage of his International career '05 onwards wasn't great due to the pressure he was put under by the press and himself and he played at around the same level as Jones and O'Gara while plagued with injuries.