June International Test: Australia vs. England [1st Test] (11/06/2016)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Right, well let's not make generalizations on New Zealanders based on whatever happens to appear on your social media feed elsewhere. It paints a lot of reasonably fair minded posters with a pretty unfair brush.
     
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  3. ragerancher

    ragerancher First XV

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    Well my to do list for England:

    - Drift defence needs to improve, Aussies were creating overlaps for fun because our defence was always too tight. We are doing the Sarries wolfpack but are only doing it half heartedly. We are pressing enough to bring the defence forward but not enough to pressure anyone. That means when the ball gets to the wing, the entire defence is forward of where it needs to be. This happened in the 6N too. If we are going to press up in defence, we need to be engaging the Aussies before the ball gets to the wings.

    - Midfield defence. Especially with Burrell they were getting through here so easily. Suprised to see Ford made 2nd most tackles, didn't notice the Aussies really running through players that much but bouncing off some very passive tackling.

    - Youngs is too damn slow. Every single breakdown he slows the ball right down. The England U20 scrumhalf could have taught him something in fast delivery. Youngs always does a step, wind up and then pass. It makes it easy for the Aussies.

    - 1 out passing to forwards. Stupid and easy to defend. Achieves nothing. Aussie forwards look to do something more with the ball. Our forwards, especially the front 3, do nothing more than trot into the highest concentration of players they can find. Extremely ineffective carrying and they should look for the odd pop up to a player on their shoulder (there never is one).

    - Less aimless kicking to the back 3 but a kick chase to Folau will be good, he very rarely kicks and if we pressure him to try to run or pass from his 22, he could cause errors again.

    - Stop ****ing about in the scrums. Seriously, it's so **** to watch.
     
  4. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Pfft. In Olyy's wet dreams.
     
  5. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Sorry, that was uncalled for, not all of you do it, but there are the minority that are loud and stand out.
     
  6. Tony Manx

    Tony Manx TRF Season Ticket Holder

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    A minority of one maybe?
     
  7. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    Minority of one here.

    Pocock made 4 turnovers by my count. We didn't nullify him at all.

    Final ratings (imo)

    Brown - 4.5 -

    Good: One good kick return where he passed the ball to Watson to establish attacking position. Got on Joseph's shoulder for his break.

    Bad: Offloads said break to an Aussie player. Majority of his carrying easily marshalled. Lucky his missed tackle for Foley is called back. That catching flub.

    Yarde -5.5 -

    Good: Right place for his try. Mostly copes with the behemoths. One decent clearance kick.

    Bad: Decision to come for Folau and cut him off goes very badly. Doesn't make the most of the space provided by Faz to attack DHP with.

    Joseph - 7.5 -

    Good: Good hustle for his try. Made England's two most important breaks of the first half. Defensively very, very sound.

    Bad: Should have been tighter on Kuridrani for Kuridrani's try (easy to say now). Fluffs the first kick-off under pressure. Conceded late dumb penalty to let Australia have a bit more of a chance.

    Burrell - 5.5 -

    Good: Two decent half-breaks

    Bad: Should have put more pressure on Foley for Folau's score. Not George Ford. Often misses the man when shooting up out of defence.

    Watson - 4.5 -

    Good: One good read on Folau to cut off Aussie overlap. Does well to stay in bounds with Hooper sniffing off of Cole turnover. Good tackle off of stepping Fardy. Good link up with Brown.

    Bad: Consistently overrunning kick chases. Lack of trust in inside man twice leads to one try and one break that ultimately leads to try. Exposed by defence but does not deal well with it.

    Farrell - 7.5 -

    Good: Kicking all his points puts huge pressure on Australia to chase the game. Makes majority of one on one tackles, including a good one on Folau to stop 22 break out and one on Kerevi to induce final turnover. Lays on good chance for Yarde. Pulls strings nicely during his one spell at fly-half in Australia's half with inside ball to Joseph and a good ball to put Billy in space. Pressure on Foley for Joseph's try.

    Bad: Folau's try is a major f' up on his part. He's nowhere. Failure to trust Ford to make a tackle makes a hole for Kerevi - leads to Hooper's second.

    Youngs - 6 -

    Good: Cover tackle on Hooper when kick-off goes well, covers Phipps well from the outside break. Very few inaccurate passes. Lot of accurate box-kicks (shame about Watson's chase). Nice mini-break from lineout. Stops one Aussie exit with an openside-esque read and hammer on Foley.

    Bad: Should have organised defence for Hooper's first try better. Some box kicks too long (lucky Folau committed suicide off of one).

    Mako - 4.5 -

    Good: Came out on top on Poite Scrum Lottery. Great reactions to rescue turnover ball in their 22. Some okay carries.

    Bad: Has no business defending a wide channel and was a tower of strength for Australia doing so in the first ten minutes. Knocks on from first carry. Another knock on for little reason in their half. Twice fails to clear Pocock from ruck leading to turnover. Most of his carrying well marshalled.

    Hartley - 7.5 -

    Good; Makes Joseph's break by working hard to get on blindside to act as first receiver. Lineout virtually immaculate with him on. High work rate. First forward over Hask's break.

    Bad: Uhm... oh yeah, doesnt support Robshaw when going for a restart leading to turnover. Tiny thing.

    Cole - 6.5 -

    Good: Wins Poite scrum lottery. Two good turnovers. Reads the short lineout to Mumm and disrupts Aussie line out when they were pressing.

    Bad: An embarassingly bad pick and carry. Lost some on Poite scrum lottery too. Decision to hunt Foley rather than push out helps create the Kerevi break that sets up Hooper's second.

    Itoje - 6.5 -

    Good: Turnover under posts huge. Makes a good rescue of one of our bad lineouts. Good physicality.

    Bad: Little responsible for LCD's lost line out (Not as much as LCD). Dumb penalty in front of the posts just outside our 22. Twice second man in when Pocock steals it. Twice misses tackle wider out (okay, I'm being a little harsh here). Flops needlessly on a ruck to slow down our own ball.

    Kruis - 6.5 -

    Good: Lineout goes well. Second forward to Hask's break.

    Bad; Carrying doesn't make much impact. Loses a restart for no obvious reason.

    Robshaw - 7

    Good: Great chase on Faz's missed kick. Lovely hands to provide space for Watson in our 22 and for Faz to create Yarde's space. Wins a turnover penalty. Supported Care's last break.

    Bad: Can't stop Hooper's second try as he's too slow. Flubs a restart.

    Haskell - 8.5

    Good: Great turnover in 22. Good reactions off of Cole's kick out (but offside, so bit lucky). Huge tackle rate. Big hit on Pocock. Good kick chase. Good clear outs. That break. Forces two knock-ons. Great support to force Kuridrani into touch.

    Bad: Misses a couple of tackles on Pocock and Hooper I'd like to see made. Part of allowing one steal by Pocock.

    Billy - 7

    Good: Consistently makes ground. Deals well with kicks when in back field. Some big hits. Wins one turnover penalty and would win another if not for Ford being offside.

    Bad: Couple of bad defensive reads. Also exposed by Folau when on end of defensive line.

    bench:

    LCD - 5

    Doesn't do a huge deal but underthrows at the end allowing a steal.

    Mullan - 6

    Scrum is wobbling but I love his awareness to pop up that last knock-on to Care so he stays a 6

    Hill - 5.5

    Scrum is wobbling to be fair

    Launchbury - 6.5

    One big hit, great support for Care's break

    Lawes - 6

    Busy without standing out

    Care - 6

    Big part in conceding one try, big part in scoring one

    Ford - 8

    Second game in a row where he changes a game against Australia. Lays on two tries on a plate. Tactical kicking could be better but good clearances and restarts. Defensively solid.

    Nowell - 6.5

    Good tackle on Kuridrani, good speed for try.


    Additional thoughts

    Launchbury + Itoje are clearly not trusted as lineout combo. Whatever needs to be done to make a lineout unit that can contain both should be done.

    Hard day for back three as their only purpose was to be run at by Australians. Hard day for tight five as they watched the Australians pass it from one end to the other except for Mako, who instead got run by at Australians.

    Tight five probably deserve an extra .25 each for decent day at maul but blaaah.

    We're beginning to look like a team with plenty of leaders. Robshaw, Itoje, Fazlet, Ford, Youngs all vocal and encouraging at times

    The Australians were incredibly dumb and suicidal with Fardy leading the way. Poor support of their own ball carrier.

    Slow back row is still an issue.

    Finally, since I've spent so long slagging him off, I'd like to note that Hartley is the biggest winner from the Jones era to date and had his best game in a long time.
     
  8. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Ennit,
    I was very vocal in my dislike of his selection/captaincy selection, but fair play he's taken it with both hands.
    Good captain and has taken his shot with both hands.
    Don't think he's the best hooker in the country, but no qualms with his selection at all. Still really want George brought through more, though.
     
  9. j'nuh

    j'nuh First XV

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    I would still rather we phased George in over the next two years, but Hartley's done well admittedly.

    On this point, I feel that most of the credit for this goes to Jones. It is so much easier for leaders to lead a team when everyone knows what their roles are. It's just like any job. You can't tell people what to do if you have no idea what they should be doing.
     
  10. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Really, you'd rate Billy higher than Itoje? In the first half Itoje was a 1 man pack. Granted he was quiet in the second, but Billy was quiet all game. Just a little thing, but that seems unfair on Itoje.
     
  11. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    I think even the most fervent Hartley supporter would have to admit phasing in the replacement of a 30 year old hooker with head knock troubles is probably a good idea ;) But I know what you mean J'nuh. And I agree. But for now, Hartley's doing us proud.

    Toby - Yup. On first watch, I had the scores the other way around, but on close inspection, Itoje makes a lot of mistakes and is quiet outside his superman impressions where as Vunipola is largely error free and making lots of small vital contributions.

    I'm being a grinch here, but Itoje needs to calm down and tighten his game down to reach his potential. Should happen with time but the sooner the better.
     
  12. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    George should certainly be our 16. But there's no vacancy at 2 at the moment. I think Hartley and Jones totally get each other and have bought the on and off field leadership we were so badly missing before.

    Hartley's got to have a good shot at the Lions captaincy next year.
     
  13. johnmac99

    johnmac99 Academy Player

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    In fact I think some of your markings are well out, but its your opinion I know.

    You gave 4.5 for
    Brown,
    Watson
    Mako

    5
    LCD

    5.5
    Burrell
    Yarde
    Hill

    6
    Youngs
    Mullen
    Lawes
    Care

    6.5
    Cole
    Itoje
    Kruis
    Launchberry
    Nowell

    7
    Robshaw
    Binny

    7.5
    Joseph
    Farrell
    Hartley

    8
    Ford

    8.5
    Haskell
     
  14. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  15. Ka_Mate

    Ka_Mate Academy Player

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    Every country has their loud obnoxious supporters who use their countries sports teams as an extension of their ego and nationalism.

    Looking at the Euro's many of them are using football as an excuse to be d!ckheads.
     
  16. Maverick1987

    Maverick1987 First XV

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    You're a hard man to please ! Can't say I agree with your markings but understand the meaning behind them . My main gripe would be that Burrell was clearly the worst player in the park . He had to be removed on 30 mins because he was basically as useful in defence as a bloody tackle bag !
     
  17. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    I don't think there was ever any argument over that!

    Honestly don't think Burrell was that bad. I guess maybe Eddie was thinking Faz at 12 equals a more aggressive charge out (cos they were passing it from one side to the other in front of us with no dramas) but that didn't pay out too hot. Maybe he wanted Ford as an extra cool head and organiser - I think the main attraction was someone to get some territory.

    While some had quite the reverse Midas touch.

    That was genuinely the worst performance you'll ever see score 39 points. Credit to how clinical we were (i.e. Ford and Faz's goal kicking) and our cool under pressure (only 8 penalties conceded while making a number of ruck turnovers is *big*) but our ability to exit our own territory was abysmal, our defence let them do what they like, we struggled with removing Pocock and are very lucky Australia gifted us ten points while failing to take nine (just from kicks, nevermind two turnovers on our own line and a try scratched off for crossing).

    Feel free to suggest any I should adjust :)
     
  18. Ka_Mate

    Ka_Mate Academy Player

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    Peats markings are good, no room for complacency and that's the attitude Eddie Jones will be promoting and always telling palyers in areas they can improve, instead of basking on a result and thinking the jobs done for the next 3 years (cough ABs vs England 2012)
     
  19. Zed

    Zed Bench Player

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    I agree. I don't think England played that great. If they don't get their defence sorted out next week they could be in trouble. They did seem to improve in the latter part of the game especially when it came to shutting down attacks out wide, but there were times that Folau got though when he shouldn't have done. I don't think we will have it that easy next week though, England will look to shut down our runners down the 13, 15 channel so we are going to have to have a plan B and perhaps look to play a tad more conservatively, kick for territory etc
     
  20. austingtir

    austingtir First XV

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    The rules are changing and Pocock will be even less effective than he is now.

    Fact is any team with common sense can totally nullify him to the point where he's a EPIC failure in any big match. We've done it more than twice now in the biggest matches of Pococks career. Incredibly one dimensional player being played at 8 where he's totally out of his depth at international level. I'll say it again if Cheika continues to play him out of position at 8 he can kiss goodbye to this test series.
     
  21. johnmac99

    johnmac99 Academy Player

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    As was said previously, Pocock is out injured for the rest of this series, so Cheika won't be playing him anywhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Peat - I don't agree with a lot of your markings, but as I said earlier, they are your markings and you're entitled to your opinion.

    I thought it was a superb performance by England overall, and only poor in the first 15/20 minutes. That won't happen again.
    Watch us play Italy in the 6N for a worse 39pts victory.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Amazing how some Aussie supporters on here didn't think we played that great.

    It was good enough to well beat Australia, even after they took a 10pt lead.

    So what do we think of Australia's performance?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's Foxsports markings on our players

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/who-starred-and-who-flopped-for-england-during-their-hoodoo-breaking-win-over-the-wallabies/news-story/0ec12c5fcd4dfd14a90bba412c45f7e8
     
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