Local Elections

[dullonien]

How can you call Plaid a 'poor mans BNP' Cymro? They have no racist views on immigration etc. and although they may not have British wide policies, they have policies important to myself and the rest of Wales. It's not as if Plaid are trying to be elected into government, they are trying to get MP's into Europe and the house of commons to make sure Wales is represented. I know Plaid isn't as good as it once was when Ron Davies was there, but there are some very good Plaid MP's.

As for the EU, for the sake of industries all over Britain, the improved trading of being part of the EU is invaluable, and inheriting the Euro as our currency would improve that further still (though it would be sad to get rid of the pound). Being a farmers son and the fact that farming is one of Wales' biggest industries, it's therefore important to stay in the EU in order to improve the value of stock. I dont care how good some of BNP's etc. policies are, their short sitedness on Europe and their recist views on immigration etc. makes their entire party appalling and I don't understand how anyone can vote for them. If someone wants to make a protest vote, vote for the Raving Loonies or the Green Party etc.

If I had to vote for one of the main 3 parties, I think I'd vote Labour. Anyone who tries to blaim Labour for the economical mess we find ourselves in are idiots, as the only people to blaim are the banks for messing up with peoples money. It was impossible for Brown to see this coming, and there's not much more he can or could have done to help. I'm not a fan or Brown and hope he goes soon, but I can't see the Tories doing any better. Lib Dem just don't cut it imo.

Overall, as others have said, we find ourselves in a poor situation where there isn't much difference between the main 3 parties. I can understand why young people can't be bothered to vote. The lives of politicians are so different from most peoples day to day lives that they can't surely represent them? The circus that is the house of commons with the stupid booing and yehing also needs to go imo. They should act like professionals and have a proper debate.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jun 8 2009, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Anyone who tries to blaim Labour for the economical mess we find ourselves in are idiots, as the only people to blaim are the banks for messing up with peoples money. It was impossible for Brown to see this coming, and there's not much more he can or could have done to help. I'm not a fan or Brown and hope he goes soon, but I can't see the Tories doing any better. Lib Dem just don't cut it imo.[/b]

Oooops. You lost me right there.

NuLab are fully to blame for the financial crisis. Like the Republicans and Democrats in the US they have been "captured" by the banking lobby, allowing a ridiculous system to blow past critical mass. That was on Brown's watch. If he was unable to see it coming, then his mantra words since 1997 - prudence and "no more boom and bust" - were the ravings of a true idiot. But he's not an idiot - just an arrogant fool who played up to the bankers. Now he's shoved the taxpayer in as a radiation shield, without democratic accountability, and we will all be bleeding out the arse for years and years and years.

Labour bankrupted the UK in the '70s, and they've just done it again. Thing's don't seem too bad now because they've bought time with mind boggling borrowing, which might tide them over for next year's election. After that it'll be last one out switch off the lights.

Tories will have to cut public spending. Painful, but better to do it through parliament than have the bond market and the IMF force it on us.

The Lib Dems have Vince Cable - who DID see this coming.

Grrrrrr.

 

[dullonien]

Fair enough shtove. I do agree that the Banks weren't monitored closely enough, both here and even more in the US. This all started with Northern Rock, after that it's all just been a deteriation of confidence and a realisation of how stupid the banks have been with their borrowing. I realise you know more about this than I do, but if a car manufacturer as big as General Motors can go bust (can't blaim Brown for that), then I don't think much could have been done. Afterall, this is a global economic crisis, many are to blaim.

It still makes my mind boggle at how banks could have getten it so wrong! They make more intrest on the money they lend than what they pay us for borrowing it, surely it's simple? I know it's more complicated and they've made poor decisions to who they lent to and that they've lent more than they really had etc. but it's still a stupid thing to have happened.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jun 7 2009, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

How can you call Plaid a 'poor mans BNP' Cymro? They have no racist views on immigration etc. and although they may not have British wide policies, they have policies important to myself and the rest of Wales. It's not as if Plaid are trying to be elected into government, they are trying to get MP's into Europe and the house of commons to make sure Wales is represented. I know Plaid isn't as good as it once was when Ron Davies was there, but there are some very good Plaid MP's.

As for the EU, for the sake of industries all over Britain, the improved trading of being part of the EU is invaluable, and inheriting the Euro as our currency would improve that further still (though it would be sad to get rid of the pound). Being a farmers son and the fact that farming is one of Wales' biggest industries, it's therefore important to stay in the EU in order to improve the value of stock. I dont care how good some of BNP's etc. policies are, their short sitedness on Europe and their recist views on immigration etc. makes their entire party appalling and I don't understand how anyone can vote for them. If someone wants to make a protest vote, vote for the Raving Loonies or the Green Party etc.

If I had to vote for one of the main 3 parties, I think I'd vote Labour. Anyone who tries to blaim Labour for the economical mess we find ourselves in are idiots, as the only people to blaim are the banks for messing up with peoples money. It was impossible for Brown to see this coming, and there's not much more he can or could have done to help. I'm not a fan or Brown and hope he goes soon, but I can't see the Tories doing any better. Lib Dem just don't cut it imo.

Overall, as others have said, we find ourselves in a poor situation where there isn't much difference between the main 3 parties. I can understand why young people can't be bothered to vote. The lives of politicians are so different from most peoples day to day lives that they can't surely represent them? The circus that is the house of commons with the stupid booing and yehing also needs to go imo. They should act like professionals and have a proper debate.[/b]

Plaid are the Welsh Nationalist Party and are fairly similar to the BNP, yes they dont want the fascist element.

Labour are the arguable the major reason why they are in debt as shtove mentioned! They are running this government with policies they drafted in the 50s and are currently outdated!

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jun 7 2009, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Labour bankrupted the UK in the '70s, and they've just done it again. Thing's don't seem too bad now because they've bought time with mind boggling borrowing, which might tide them over for next year's election. After that it'll be last one out switch off the lights.[/b]

That is hilariously true. My Dad has been saying that since he fell out with Labour which was roughly when he saw Mikey Foot and took a dislike to his fashion and he said that word for word since we found out Gordie Broon sold off the UK's remaining gold at bargain basement prices...

For someone who voted SNP and Tory in the Scottish Parly elections (in a desperate but vain attempt to unseat the labour MSP) I can say that PR can be great fun but thats about it. AMS is flawed as you have the worst of both worlds: one member elected via FPTP and then a whole gang of random people who you neither want or even like arriving via the closed list system. And yet you have people who detest both FPTP and closed list systems singing its praises which is baffling to be honest.

Ireland leads the way. If we're going to have PR in the UK then everyone needs to have STV and pronto.

But now for my tired and slightly drunken ramble so please fast forward your TiVo now. I'm a (soft and polite non-Ulster) Unionist, I'm a patriot, I fly both the Union Flag and the Cross of St George, am a proud East Anglian and take great interest in the wide and varied cultures across these sceptered isles.

However nowhere in this happy-dappy script with Union Jack coloured bunny rabbits skipping around while the sun shines with a happy happy smile is there room for quite possibly the biggest and most shameful blot on this great nation's character. I'm talking about the BNP.

The party is inept, laughable and pretty lazy but on the news that they have managed to sneak themselves a seat in the Europarl highlights that slowly and surely they are becoming more and more organised and this is a danger. The issues regarding its stance on immigration and race for instance.

Like I said, I am a patriot but my interpretation is of the civic nationalist variety in that I want Britain to be a great place to live in. But to achieve that, the UK must be open, fair, tolerant and pragmatic. I want the best to see what the UK is doing and say "I want to be part of that" and come here. I'm talking about revamping immigration policy by putting heavy emphasis on amnesty for illiegal immigrants, free English tuition and an increased push on integration with British society not just in a cultural sense but in a sense that the more in tune with your surroundings you are then the more likely you are at founding your own business or getting a job and making your way in the world. This is what I would love to see on top of a beefed up and heavily reinforced immigration service.

What the BNP calls for in its launatic ethnic-nationalism belongs more in the nightmare days of the Balkan wars than on the British streets. Bans on mixed marriages, regarding "non-europeans" as "permenant guests" regardless of them being born here or not, its shameful and disgusting refusal to even recognise the bravest of the brave in the British Army (the Ghurkhas) as even worthy of British citizenship puts them in one class and one class only for me: traitors.

What they suggest would mean disaster for the Union and for Britain generally. Not only would a BNP government accelerate the breakup of the United Kingdom but the bare rump that survives will be cast out by international institutions such as the EU and NATO and shunned by its traditional allies. It would mean isolation and disaster and the destruction of all that I hold close and dear.

And thats probably more or less why I'd never vote BNP. Ever.

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meh @ Jun 6 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Still a year to wait for me but atm looking at it...

I wouldn't vote Tories if you paid me £100. None of my family ever have or will. As an entity I hate them with a burning passion.

Labour aren't much better and you could probably interchange them with the Tories now quite easily. Same corruption. Same rubbish.

Lib Dems are just a joke.

BNP - they sadden me. They do actually have some good socialist policies but they also drag out this immigration nonsense that sounds like a policy that an 8 year old would come up with. It will never ever work in the real world and if it did I'd be very afraid...Anyone who votes them isn't racist, just stupid.

I'd probably vote SNP at the moment and Plaid if I was back in Wales. I don't approve of staying in the EU tbh and I'm quite sceptical of it in general but compared to life under Labour and the Tories, things have changed dramatically. Even as a young fella I can see that although my parents have experienced it as well. They definitely have let us down in some areas though, education being one of them. I don't trust Salmond either.[/b]

Exactly the same as me pretty much, I've still got a year before I can vote (turns out there's a few Welsh guys my age on here) and your views are pretty much the same as mine.
Not a big fan of the Tories, David Cameron really gets on my nerves with the whole ''I'm not a Toff! I'm common just like you!'' thing. So really wouldn't vote for them.
I don't mind Labour too much, but I find it a bit disgusting how all of Gordon Browns Cabinet seems to have stabbed him in the back a bit, so that puts me off a bit. Tbh, I;d prefer to have a Grumpy Scotsman like Brown as PM than a smarmy asshat like Cameron.
Lib Dems, well all I can say is do they actually do anything?

When I can vote I'd probably vote for Plaid because I'm all for their views on helping Wales be more indepentant and not getting thrown in with England on some important laws and changes. I'mm not saying that because I don;t like the idea of being ''ruled'' by England, just I think it would suit Wales to be able to have a bigger say in what happens in it's borders, very much like up in Scotland.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Well the BNP won 2 seats in the European elections...

 

[Laetca]

Not getting any of the UK politics in this topic, but to answer to the general question:

I voted to elect the Flemish Parliament and the European Parliament, because I have to. If I don't vote I'll have to appear in court, explain myself and pay a fine for not being present. Belgium is one of the only three countries in the EU that have obligated vote rather than a right to vote (the other two are Greece and Luxemburg if anyone's wondering) so every other year we have to vote for something or other, two years ago I had to vote for federal government, and I will have to vote in 2010,2011,2012 for I'm not sure what yet.

Which is basically ridiculous, fine if we have too many governments, but with each election everything changes for all governments! People who already have a seat on one senate put themselves on the list for another, get elected, and then they have to find someone to replace them, or decide not to take their seat in the other senate so they give the spot to the next in line, power shifts so new agreements are made on all levels, ...

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laetca @ Jun 8 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not getting any of the UK politics in this topic, but to answer to the general question:

I voted to elect the Flemish Parliament and the European Parliament, because I have to. If I don't vote I'll have to appear in court, explain myself and pay a fine for not being present. Belgium is one of the only three countries in the EU that have obligated vote rather than a right to vote (the other two are Greece and Luxemburg if anyone's wondering) so every other year we have to vote for something or other, two years ago I had to vote for federal government, and I will have to vote in 2010,2011,2012 for I'm not sure what yet.

Which is basically ridiculous, fine if we have too many governments, but with each election everything changes for all governments! People who already have a seat on one senate put themselves on the list for another, get elected, and then they have to find someone to replace them, or decide not to take their seat in the other senate so they give the spot to the next in line, power shifts so new agreements are made on all levels, ...[/b]

Basically, to put the BNP's position in plain english: They would view you as not Belgian and never would be seen as Belgian but merely as a "guest of Belgium". That phrase, "guest of Britain" is a hugely loaded and dangerous statement because as we all know, all guests have to leave sometime.

Honestly, if the UK turns into a island version of Rhodesia, I'm going to move to Scotland and demand a referendum on Independence.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jun 8 2009, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well the BNP won 2 seats in the European elections...[/b]

It was a very touch and go thing though, UKIP is complaining that many local authorities in Manchester and Liverpool insisted on folding the ballot papers against repeated direct orders from both the Electoral Commission and EU monitors which meant that if you wanted to vote UKIP you had to first "discover" the UKIP option by unfolding everything first. Obviously, most people never saw the UKIP option and just ticked the usual three or the BNP or Greens.

The North-West of England may have turned neo-nazi, but lets be brutally honest here, we're not exactly making it easy for ourselves to fight back.

This is the time now to get our heads out of the sand the bees out of our behinds and take these gimps head on, thrash out their arguments and destroy them in open debate. If any BNP member ever went on Question Time he'd be ripped to shreds because their policies would mean gauranteed disaster for the UK and Europe as a whole.

We need to take our flag back, we need to ask Nick Griffon why he doesn't want men who put their lives on the line day in day out for Queen and Country to settle here in the UK if they want, we need to ask the nearest BNP man just how they plan to tell guys like Mike Catt, Delon Armitage, Ugo Monye and Riki Flutey that they are now merely "guests" of England and the UK at large. We need to destroy them, we must destroy them and if we fail then the future of Britain is at risk.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jun 8 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laetca @ Jun 8 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not getting any of the UK politics in this topic, but to answer to the general question:

I voted to elect the Flemish Parliament and the European Parliament, because I have to. If I don't vote I'll have to appear in court, explain myself and pay a fine for not being present. Belgium is one of the only three countries in the EU that have obligated vote rather than a right to vote (the other two are Greece and Luxemburg if anyone's wondering) so every other year we have to vote for something or other, two years ago I had to vote for federal government, and I will have to vote in 2010,2011,2012 for I'm not sure what yet.

Which is basically ridiculous, fine if we have too many governments, but with each election everything changes for all governments! People who already have a seat on one senate put themselves on the list for another, get elected, and then they have to find someone to replace them, or decide not to take their seat in the other senate so they give the spot to the next in line, power shifts so new agreements are made on all levels, ...[/b]

Basically, to put the BNP's position in plain english: They would view you as not Belgian and never would be seen as Belgian but merely as a "guest of Belgium". That phrase, "guest of Britain" is a hugely loaded and dangerous statement because as we all know, all guests have to leave sometime.

Honestly, if the UK turns into a island version of Rhodesia, I'm going to move to Scotland and demand a referendum on Independence.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jun 8 2009, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well the BNP won 2 seats in the European elections...[/b]

It was a very touch and go thing though, UKIP is complaining that many local authorities in Manchester and Liverpool insisted on folding the ballot papers against repeated direct orders from both the Electoral Commission and EU monitors which meant that if you wanted to vote UKIP you had to first "discover" the UKIP option by unfolding everything first. Obviously, most people never saw the UKIP option and just ticked the usual three or the BNP or Greens.

The North-West of England may have turned neo-nazi, but lets be brutally honest here, we're not exactly making it easy for ourselves to fight back.

This is the time now to get our heads out of the sand the bees out of our behinds and take these gimps head on, thrash out their arguments and destroy them in open debate. If any BNP member ever went on Question Time he'd be ripped to shreds because their policies would mean gauranteed disaster for the UK and Europe as a whole.

We need to take our flag back, we need to ask Nick Griffon why he doesn't want men who put their lives on the line day in day out for Queen and Country to settle here in the UK if they want, we need to ask the nearest BNP man just how they plan to tell guys like Mike Catt, Delon Armitage, Ugo Monye and Riki Flutey that they are now merely "guests" of England and the UK at large. We need to destroy them, we must destroy them and if we fail then the future of Britain is at risk.
[/b][/quote]

Prest im not going to argue with you here but people often get completely the wrong idea with the BNP. People like Catt, Armitage's, Money's, Flutey's etc would not be guests in a BNP place as they are already here and are British. The BNP ARE against coloured people who just use Britian e.g. benefits, housing etc.

Dont get me wrong the BNP would do no good to this country but they would sort out some problematic areas in this country in which the Torries, Labour etc must address!

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 8 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Prest im not going to argue with you here but people often get completely the wrong idea with the BNP. People like Catt, Armitage's, Money's, Flutey's etc would not be guests in a BNP place as they are already here and are British. The BNP ARE against coloured people who just use Britian e.g. benefits, housing etc.[/b]

Actually no, unless you are ethnically British (i.e. white, european, born here etc) then under official BNP policy you are seen as a "guest" of the United Kingdom. Do your homework, question your BNP rep (before you punch him that is, thats what 99% of Scots do to BNP men anyway; punch first, ask questions later ) and get the facts.

For example, even though there are many Ghurkas who have already settled here and have British citizenship, under a BNP government they would have to hand in their passports and have some crappy and insulting "guest pass" which, as we all know, can (and probably) will be revoked in an eventual British Krystalnacht. BNP Nick actually went on record on BBC Radio 5 Live and said that they were no better than "economic mercenaries". This was in between belittling Johnson Beharry VC and his award as "positive-discrimination gone mad" and then saying that he wasn't racist.

Actually, here are a few more "guests" who we'd have to ask to turn in their passports: Chris Czekaj (Polish Grandad, not good enough according to the BNP), Lawrence Dallaglio (Italian and Irish parents, oh dear oh dear, GTFO!) Nathan Hines (not even born in the UK! Unacceptable!) Jordan Turner-Hall (take the Chariot outta town!), need me to name any more?

EDIT: I need to go back to Scotland and Aberdeen where the place is BNP free. The few BNP Scots there are are usually outnumbered 100-1 by the number of angry Scots pounding fists into open palms. They're seen as a wholy English phenomenon which needs to be (understandibly) get beat outta town.

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 7 2009, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Plaid are the Welsh Nationalist Party and are fairly similar to the BNP, yes they dont want the fascist element.

Labour are the arguable the major reason why they are in debt as shtove mentioned! They are running this government with policies they drafted in the 50s and are currently outdated![/b]

You are right that Plaid are the Welsh Nationalist party, but that is where the similarities between them and the BNP end. Plaid are there to represent Wales, they have no policies to throw foreigners out of it's borders etc. It's also very few members who want Wales to become independant, as most people in their right mind can see that Wales could never survive as an indipendant country in our current state. However, many people rightly sugest that Wales should be given more powers to decide how things are run in Wales, in the same way Scotland does (as thingimubob pointed out). It's about time the fact that 'Wales was conquered wheras Scotland decided to join Britain' argument as to why we are treated differently is put to rest, 800 years is long enough!

I honestly do not understand how you can compare Plaid and the BNP!

 

[Laetca]

I can just imagine the meeting in which it's decided if a person is a guest or not, and how far back in the family tree they'll search for contamination.

Not sure if it's similar to the BNP but the Flemish VB sounds like it, they were the biggest losers of yesterdays elections. I wouldn't know why, with all the charming images they tend to use:

(the 'traffic sign' symbolises the VB's stance on Islam, in case people miss that bit)

Wasn't it so that the nationalistic parties (from Flanders, Austria, Denmark, don't know about others) form the strongest alliance in the EU Parliament?

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laetca @ Jun 8 2009, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not sure if it's similar to the BNP but the Flemish VB sounds like it, they were the biggest losers of yesterdays elections. I wouldn't know why, with all the charming images they tend to use:

(the 'traffic sign' symbolises the VB's stance on Islam, in case people miss that bit)[/b]

Holy crap, that's appalling!

 

[Prestwick]

I know, that Gordon Brown impersonation looks- OOOH! YEAH! The anti-Islam thing!

 

[Laetca]

The great thing I think is that there isn't a single mosque with minarets in Antwerp, but still, the fight continues bravely.

I heard they got a lot of votes a lot of years ago from Muslims, more specifically Muslims whose Dutch wasn't too good, because they actually had Muslim people on their election campaign posters. The voters didn't realise the text on the poster actually said the VB wanted them out.
Never heard this confirmed anywhere, so I hope it's an Urban Myth.

I think all countries probably have a political party like that, or am I just assuming now?

 

[MunsterMan]

I don't think we do, there was an Immigration Control party in the 2007 General elections but nobody voted for them, and I never saw 1 poster. We have lots of small left wing parties here though, stuff like "People before Profit". But not any far right parties that I am aware of. Lucky us i suppose.

 

[An Tarbh]

the PDs were as far right as it gets in Ireland. It's the left we've got to worry about, albeit they're still majorly in the minority but wack jobs like Joe Higgins and Sinn Féin still need to be kept from power.

 

[Prestwick]

I know Sinn Fein are in the "Left" bloc with the Communists and the Marxists and what not in the European Parliament.

You'd think all the Irish parties would join the Green bloc, thinking its a bloc of Irish culture enthusiasts *slaps knee and laughs at his own rubbish joke*

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 8 2009, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

But not any far right parties that I am aware of. Lucky us i suppose.[/b]

All the crazy people are too busy picketing Croke Park for a return to "no foreign games" whilst wearing Glasgow Celtic soccer jerseys I guess...also nobody really wants to cause a fuss over there because they have beer and bloody awesome carveries (especially in Kildare, seriously, you gotta check it out)

 

[An Tarbh]

*extremely slow hand clap*