Match Attendance in the Magners League.

[dullonien]

I don't think the marketing has a huge amount to do with it. Of course you're only going to see the Irish teams marketing, you live in Ireland! The Ospreys for example are very well marketed, I'm sure a few seasons ago they were selling more shirts than any other rugby club team in the world. This is where much of their money has come from, why they can afford the high salaries they pay, as at the end of the day they are still making profits. It's the poor and frustrating manor in which they have been playing for the last few seasons which has held them back in terms of attendances. If they had lived up to their potential, won the HC and generally played a good brand of rugby, I'm sure their attendances would be much, much higher. Instead they are a frustrating team to watch, who generally win playing poorly and loose playing even worse. I can't actually remember the last time they put in a full 80mins performance. I wouldn't pay to see that, it's a wonder there's still 7 to 8 thousand who are still willing!

The Blues showed last season that when a team is winning, and playing an attractive brand of rugby, the supporters will come. Their attendances were climing all the time. This translated into their first warm-up game of this season, where 16,000 went to watch. Unfortunately they've managed to bugger u that momentum and the fans appear to be waiting till their form improves before returning.

At the moment, the 6 to 8 thousand fans who are turning up to the regions games are the die-hard style fans who would turn-up rain or shine. That's a good thing, as it's up from a few years ago. However the regions need to tap into the kind of supporters that go and watch Wales play, the casual supporters who enjoy good rugby, but don't really want to sit thtough the s**t. The only way to do that is to play well and win more often. Here the HC is the holy grail, and would instantly draw thousands of extra fans.

 

[An Tarbh]

what are prices like for the Welsh teams and and how far out from the cities are the stadia, I know the new Cardiff one is much further out than the Arms Park was but what about the others. Even for HEC matches the venues look only half full and it's matches with Italian sides I'm talking about.

 

[munstermuffin]

Have to disagree Dullonien about marketing aspect.
Like here in Munster for every soccer and Gaa jersey you see on an normal say you will see possibly 10 people with Munster gear be it jacket, jersey or tracksuit.

Addidas have reclaimed everything they've invested in Munster already also as was claimed by them recently that the brand is 'Competitive' to the All Blacks Brand.

But don't think it solely marketing, What are ticket prices for a game there and maybe the stadia been outside city is another reason.

Like it not just this season or last but since ML was established the Irish province were first to buy in and get behind it like Munster and Leinster fans were selling massive amount of tickets even before the H'Cups arrived

 

[Blindside6]

If you actually take a look at the average gates per season for the regions the attendances have been increasing slowly year on year. However relatively speaking the regions as 'brands' are still very new. A lot of die hard Neath/Swansea fans won't go to watch the Ospreys and although Pontypridd is within the Blues region you won't see many down in Leckwith. The crowds are going to have to be built by attracting in the youngsters who don't remember the old club rivalries. It's not something that will change over night.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindside6 @ Sep 28 2009, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If you actually take a look at the average gates per season for the regions the attendances have been increasing slowly year on year. However relatively speaking the regions as 'brands' are still very new. A lot of die hard Neath/Swansea fans won't go to watch the Ospreys and although Pontypridd is within the Blues region you won't see many down in Leckwith. The crowds are going to have to be built by attracting in the youngsters who don't remember the old club rivalries. It's not something that will change over night.[/b]

Thats pretty much hit it on the head for me.

The Irish setup is based on the traditional provincial setup so the fans immediately had something to attach themselves to. Wales, Scotland and Italy have changed their entire structures from the traditional clubs to the new franchises (not sure if thats the right word) and it will take time for the fans to connect to those franchises.

Add to this the fact that professional rugby, and the Magners league is still quite new to a lot of fans and you can understand the low attendances. Friday and Saturday night matches have never been part of the average supporters routine and it takes time to change this. The "experience" has to be sold.

Leinster have done well with their season ticket sales but in a city the size of Dublin (1.sumpin million people) we are still only getting 11,000 season tickets. They go a long way to contributing to the average attendance. The thing is, there is massive room for improvement across the board. I'd be surprised if all the clubs dont continue to see an increase in attendances over the coming years. I'd be surprised if Leinster arent moving into the Aviva for a good percentage of their matches in about 5 years.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Sep 28 2009, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'd be surprised if Leinster arent moving into the Aviva for a good percentage of their matches in about 5 years.[/b]

I completely agree. Give it a couple of years and Leinster will move their Heineken Cup and big Magners League games (against Munster, Ulster) to the new Aviva Stadium. There's massive potential for growth in Leinster.

 

[Blindside6]

I did a bit of digging and found these figures for Magners League fixtures only, they are season averages. If the HEC & EDF figures were included I would expect the Blues ave to jump significantly as we were using the Mill Stad for the big games with attendances nearing 40k.

2009/10(so far)
Cardiff Blues 10,161
Ospreys 7,127
Scarlets 6,194
Newport Gwent Dragons 4,890

2008/9
Cardiff Blues 8,672
Ospreys 8,405
Scarlets 7,293
Newport Gwent Dragons 6,088

2007/8
Ospreys 8,797
Cardiff Blues 8,240
Llanelli Scarlets 7,300
Newport Gwent Dragons 5,442

2006/7
Ospreys 9,027
Cardiff Blues 7,747
Llanelli Scarlets 6,396
Newport Gwent Dragons 5,573

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Sep 28 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Sep 28 2009, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd be surprised if Leinster arent moving into the Aviva for a good percentage of their matches in about 5 years.[/b]

I completely agree. Give it a couple of years and Leinster will move their Heineken Cup and big Magners League games (against Munster, Ulster) to the new Aviva Stadium. There's massive potential for growth in Leinster.
[/b][/quote]

Would Leinster not consider building a new Stadium of their own or develop Donnybrook if possible like Thomond?

The game in Ireland is booming and rapidly growing so think it'd be great if Leinster had somethin like Thomond.
Having been in RDS last year i don't know it nice stadium and ok for short-term there just something there to make it feel weird in a way.

As for records of attendances can anyone suggest why Ospreys loosing alot seasonally

 

[shazbooger]

Donny brook is up for redevelopment but it would only ever make a 15,000 seater at most (I'd imagine). Adding to that the IRFU are going to have a nice shiney new 50,000 seater with sod all to use it for in a year or so.

There's a chance we could build our own, but not for a long while yet. If they it shouldnt be in the city centre, they should push the boundaries a bit more. Either way, its not necessary at the moment, and there is a couple of years left on the lease with the RDS I think.

 

[An Tarbh]

I thought that Leinster were in the RDS for the long haul and as far as I know there's the potential to bring the capacity up to 26000 with the redevelopment of the Anglesea Stand.

There's no point in Leinster building a new stadium, firstly the cost would be outrageous and secondly in the RDS and Lansdowne Road they've got 2 venues which will more than meet their needs with or without a redevelopment of the Anglesea stand.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Sep 28 2009, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I thought that Leinster were in the RDS for the long haul and as far as I know there's the potential to bring the capacity up to 26000 with the redevelopment of the Anglesea Stand.

There's no point in Leinster building a new stadium, firstly the cost would be outrageous and secondly in the RDS and Lansdowne Road they've got 2 venues which will more than meet their needs with or without a redevelopment of the Anglesea stand.[/b]

As far as I know Leinster have a long term deal with the RDS. How long it is, I'm not sure. I've heard there is room to increase the capacity of the RDS by a few thousand. Didn't realise that it could be increased to 26000 though.

The problem with increasing the capacity of Donnybrook appears to be the tennis club behind the terrace opposite the main stand. I've heard they want an exorbitant wedge of money to up sticks and Leinster are obviously reluctant to pony up the cash.

 

[An Tarbh]

the lease on the RDS is at least 20 years. I haven't been able to find exact details on what any new capacity would be but 26k was one that I read elsewhere, can't remember where though. There was major plans for a €100m redevelopment of the RDS announced well before Leinster started playing there which included knocking and rebuilding the Angelsea stand but again the details aren't exact in what was proposed, whether or not they still use those plans though remains to be seen.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Sep 26 2009, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Time of day (Friday evenings and sundays), relative success, travel difficulties, the recession & lack of interest compared to the HEC will all be factors.[/b]

The others I can believe, but travel difficulties in Wales.....a country that is no bigger than Waikato?

Rugby in Wales is played in a relatively small geographical area

The dark red area is where all the Welsh Magners league teams are located, and 80% of Wales' population lives. How on earth can there be travel difficulties?

That dark red area represents an area less than that of my union, Tasman, where about 100,000 people live, yet we can put 6000 to 9000 people in the stadium every weekend.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 28 2009, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Sep 26 2009, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Time of day (Friday evenings and sundays), relative success, travel difficulties, the recession & lack of interest compared to the HEC will all be factors.[/b]

The others I can believe, but travel difficulties in Wales.....a country that is no bigger than Waikato?

Rugby in Wales is played in a relatively small geographical area

The dark red area is where all the Welsh Magners league teams are located, and 80% of Wales' population lives. How on earth can there be travel difficulties?

That dark red area represents an area less than that of my union, Tasman, where about 100,000 people live, yet we can put 6000 to 9000 people in the stadium every weekend.
[/b][/quote]

Great Geography Lesson :bravo:

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Great Geography Lesson :bravo:[/b]

Wasn't meant to be.

I'm just trying to point out what a small area/high population density region the four Welsh ML teams are located in, and trying to understand why a rugby mad country like Wales cannot get full stadiums when all the supporters live within such a short distance.

 

[MunsterMan]

I'm not sure about Wales, but matchday traffic in Ireland is normally a f***ing *****

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Sep 28 2009, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm not sure about Wales, but matchday traffic in Ireland is normally a f***ing *****[/b]

True to that we only have roadworks when there is a match :lol:

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 28 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Geography Lesson :bravo:[/b]

Wasn't meant to be.

I'm just trying to point out what a small area/high population density region the four Welsh ML teams are located in, and trying to understand why a rugby mad country like Wales cannot get full stadiums when all the supporters live within such a short distance.
[/b][/quote]
I know was only joking but seriously on your point i have feeling alot of welsh follow national team and not regions like in Ireland lots follow Munster and Leinster but not as many follow AIL teams or Junior teams.

Just giving example but know scenario is different

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 28 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Geography Lesson :bravo:[/b]

Wasn't meant to be.

I'm just trying to point out what a small area/high population density region the four Welsh ML teams are located in, and trying to understand why a rugby mad country like Wales cannot get full stadiums when all the supporters live within such a short distance.
[/b][/quote]
I know was only joking but seriously on your point i have feeling alot of welsh follow national team and not regions like in Ireland lots follow Munster and Leinster but not as many follow AIL teams or Junior teams.

Just giving example but know scenario is different
[/b][/quote]

Could it be a "hangover" from the animosity over the demise, or rather, the decline in importance of the Welsh Clubs. I'll bet the was a lot of anger over the combining of teams like Newport and Gwent to make the Dragons, and Swansea, Neath and Bridgend to make the Ospreys.

I have found that the Welsh tend to have very long memories when it comes to rugby e.g. the Bob Deans try in 1905, the Andy Haden dive in 1978 etc.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

Well if anyone is in Glasgow for a game give me a shout because I've been looking to go to more live games. I can also offer a place to crash if needs be.
I don't care what end I'd be sitting in.