Match Attendance in the Magners League.

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 28 2009, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 28 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Geography Lesson :bravo:[/b]

Wasn't meant to be.

I'm just trying to point out what a small area/high population density region the four Welsh ML teams are located in, and trying to understand why a rugby mad country like Wales cannot get full stadiums when all the supporters live within such a short distance.
[/b][/quote]
I know was only joking but seriously on your point i have feeling alot of welsh follow national team and not regions like in Ireland lots follow Munster and Leinster but not as many follow AIL teams or Junior teams.

Just giving example but know scenario is different
[/b][/quote]
That's the impression i've got over the last year,
Very passionate about Wales and their local team, many aren't that fussed about the regions in as much as they aren't going to make a 4hr/8hr round trip (Aberystwyth/Bangor, respectively) to watch the Scarlets play, when they could just watch it in the pub

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Sep 29 2009, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well if anyone is in Glasgow for a game give me a shout because I've been looking to go to more live games. I can also offer a place to crash if needs be.
I don't care what end I'd be sitting in.[/b]

That difference welsh regions ain't like that and in fairness to Scottish teams they still support team when doing sh*te.

But do welsh die-hard not realize regions had to be established to compete like imagine swansea team alone or neath playin Munster or Leinster it'd be massacre

 

[Olyy]

I think they realise that, but the region system is relatively new, and as said before, the combination of sides means alot of people won't identify with the teams
Like the Scarlets being all of north/mid wales together, so to a lot of oldies it'd seem strange to support a team which is also the team of their rivals etc.

All just assumption on my part for this though
I see tons of people in scarlets/ospreys jerseys/apparel around the place

 

[Blindside6]

It's interesting to see the different perceptions of Welsh rugby from other countries. It's also noticeable that everyone has dropped their own cultural idea on rugby watching onto the Welsh model and that's why you're all struggling to understand. In Wales the rugby club was quite often the focal point of a village or town. It was a place where you'd go to play. watch and then have a few beers with your mates. Normally it was close enough to walk home. Son followed father followed grandfather into the same club. In 2003 5 regions were introduced as a 'top tier' to the club game in Wales. This was reduced to 4 in 2004, which introduced a whole new set of reasons for avoiding regional rugby for a sector of fans. Now to watch top class rugby people generally had to travel. The games were being held in the evenings making it difficult to use public transport. In short the traditional 'clubman' was having his rugby hijacked by a brand franchise. To get attendances up it is the new generation of supporter that will have to be enticed through the turnstiles and it is not going to happen overnight as there is no real connection established yet between the regions and old die-hards.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindside6 @ Sep 29 2009, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It's interesting to see the different perceptions of Welsh rugby from other countries. It's also noticeable that everyone has dropped their own cultural idea on rugby watching onto the Welsh model and that's why you're all struggling to understand. In Wales the rugby club was quite often the focal point of a village or town. It was a place where you'd go to play. watch and then have a few beers with your mates. Normally it was close enough to walk home. Son followed father followed grandfather into the same club. In 2003 5 regions were introduced as a 'top tier' to the club game in Wales. This was reduced to 4 in 2004, which introduced a whole new set of reasons for avoiding regional rugby for a sector of fans. Now to watch top class rugby people generally had to travel. The games were being held in the evenings making it difficult to use public transport. In short the traditional 'clubman' was having his rugby hijacked by a brand franchise. To get attendances up it is the new generation of supporter that will have to be enticed through the turnstiles and it is not going to happen overnight as there is no real connection established yet between the regions and old die-hards.[/b]

Thanks for the frank and informative reply.

I guess its only natural for us to "drop our own cultural ideas" into the mix, because that is what we know and are comparing with.

We had a similar change when the Provinces were combined into franchises for Super Rugby in 1996. It took a few years for the concept to catch on, and it only really did so when the geographical references, e'g' "Auckland" Blues, "Canterbury" Crusaders were dropped from the team names after 1999. I see that of the four Welsh Regions, only Ospreys have no geographical reference; I had to look them up to work out who they represented.

Perhaps you should consider dropping it for the rest, and just call them the Dragons, the Scarlets and the Blues.

On that note, in the late 1980's while I was on exchange in UK I visited Llanelli one weekend (one of the RAF lads I worked with at RAF Brawdy lived there). He took me to Stradey Park for a local Club match (Llanelli v Newport I think). I was amazed when I got there to find the scoreboard had the score from Llanelli's 1972 win over the All Blacks (9-3). At first, I though the buggers had set that up to have a dig at me, but apparently, the score was always returned to that when the ground is not in use.

 

[dullonien]

The Scarlets have in fact dropped the name Llanelli from their urm.. name. Problem is, no-one seems to realise that, i.e. Irish players still refer to them as Llanelli, instead of the Scarlets, as do some tv presenters, even Welsh ones. But I agree that the Blues (I refuse to call them Cardiff or Cardiff Blues) and the Dragons (same here, won't call them Newport) need to do the same. They also need to insist that people do call them correctly.

As Blindside6 has alluded to, a huge portion of the Rugby heartland in the valleys of South Wales feel like they've been 'done over'. When the Celtic Warriors (Pontypridd & Bridgend) were dispanded in 2004, the WRU alienated that entire region. They have now been bundled in with the Blues' region, however there has always been huge rivalries between the likes of Bridgend and Cardiff. The fact that the Blues still carry the name of Cardiff and their colours doesn't help in the slightest. From what I've heard, many supporters who still want to watch top tier rugby travel to support either the Ospreys or Dragons, while the rest have boycotted the Regions entirely and watch Pontypridd/Bridgend etc. in the Principality Premiership.

 

[Blindside6]

The 2 remaining regions are stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea regarding the names. The Dragons have gone a small way by becoming the Newport Gwent Dragons hoping to suck in the likes of Ebbw Vale and Pontpool etc. With the Blues I think it will take more than that. Because of the recent ground move a lot of the old Cardiff fans have become disgruntled at losing the Cardiff Arms Park connection. However while they were there fans of Ponty would never have set foot in the place to support a home team.


Smartcooky - Were you on 'Long Look'?

 

[bgrugbyfan]

Added to the issue with Cardiff, many fans are refusing to go now that the games are in the new stadium. They're outright boycotting it.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bgrugbyfan @ Sep 29 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Added to the issue with Cardiff, many fans are refusing to go now that the games are in the new stadium. They're outright boycotting it.[/b]

I've heard alot of grumbling/seen on some forums people boycotting the Scarlets since they moved into Parc y Scarlets :huh:
I understand liking your home ground, but to choose it over the team, it's a bit crazy imo

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I think the new ground is a better place than the Arms Park, but the legendary status it had, and the convinence of being at the centre of the city, are understandable. CCS is too far out- It's towards the edge of the city, and not very easy to get to except from the Bay.

The atmosphere was fantastic when I went to the first friendly, although it looks like everything's began to die down. I haven't been able to go back since, (Due to living way over in England) but would love to, providing they get a scoreboard.

 

[bgrugbyfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Sep 29 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bgrugbyfan @ Sep 29 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Added to the issue with Cardiff, many fans are refusing to go now that the games are in the new stadium. They're outright boycotting it.[/b]

I've heard alot of grumbling/seen on some forums people boycotting the Scarlets since they moved into Parc y Scarlets :huh:
I understand liking your home ground, but to choose it over the team, it's a bit crazy imo
[/b][/quote]

It's an interesting dynamic. Some are outright boycotting (they don't like the loss of CAP, which was a much "friendlier" ground, and their team playing in a football stadium) and some are irritated with the hassle of getting to the new ground (and the new expenses), and lastly some don't like the new atmosphere (it's, as been said, empty, and "souless" as I've heard it described). And there are a whole realm of fans in the middle- everyone has an opinion and the decision to move was not one met with happiness by many of the fans. I think some are hoping that the Blues will revert to playing some games at the old stadium and reserve the bigger games at the new stadium.

It's a total behavioral change for most. It requires alot more effort to be a visible fan in the stadium rather than just watching the game in a local pub now.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Sep 29 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bgrugbyfan @ Sep 29 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Added to the issue with Cardiff, many fans are refusing to go now that the games are in the new stadium. They're outright boycotting it.[/b]

I've heard alot of grumbling/seen on some forums people boycotting the Scarlets since they moved into Parc y Scarlets :huh:
I understand liking your home ground, but to choose it over the team, it's a bit crazy imo
[/b][/quote]

Yeah, can you put Parc y Scarlets or the Cardiff City stadium on a lorry and send it to Watford so fans more appreciative and grateful can enjoy it? Please? Vicarage Road has turned into a building site now

 

[Bullitt]

They wouldn't though, Mr. P; They'd only start booing...

 

[Prestwick]

The Gloucester fans were booing too

EDIT: I didn't boo but, seriously, about ten straight minutes of random kicking with no running. Nicky Robinson, Tom Voyce, Alex Goode and Glen Jackson should be ashamed of themselves. Fans from both sides were booing.

I can totally understand Sarries wanting to boot it because, well, we (don't) have the most dynamic tactics (which is a waste on Noah Cato and Alex Goode) but Gloucester?! What excuse did they have?! They've got:

• Rory Lamont
• Nicky Robinson
• James Simpson Daniel
• Lesley Vainakolo
• Some crap player from Wasps.

Four out of those five should be perfectly capable of running teams to death. In fact THEY DID THIS TO BATH IN THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON!

So, explain to me why on a perfectly sunny day with no wind with the pitch good to firm, did Robinson, Voyce AND EVEN VAINAKOLO decide to put boot to leather rather than run?!

EDIT: Take it up the jumper and go up route 1, run with it, try kicking for the corners properly, do some line dancing with it even hand stand and try and hold the ball with your ankles, I don't care but I didn't see the actual point in ten straight minutes of endless hoofing it up the middle of the pitch. I had horrible memories of Scotland vs Italy in 2007...

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads back to point why dont the WRU enforce it so and drop Cardiff from Blues etc and i know there rivalries at club level but like here in Ireland Munster play on sat we'll all shout on Paulie and boys then Sunday Shannon Garryowen Young Munster etc be knocking off eachother like same happens in Dublin and Cork.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Lads back to point why dont the WRU enforce it so and drop Cardiff from Blues etc and i know there rivalries at club level but like here in Ireland Munster play on sat we'll all shout on Paulie and boys then Sunday Shannon Garryowen Young Munster etc be knocking off eachother like same happens in Dublin and Cork.[/b]

true but that's the way it's always been, there's always been an identity with the Irish provinces, this hasn't been the case in Wales and itcan't just be shoved down their throats.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Sep 29 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lads back to point why dont the WRU enforce it so and drop Cardiff from Blues etc and i know there rivalries at club level but like here in Ireland Munster play on sat we'll all shout on Paulie and boys then Sunday Shannon Garryowen Young Munster etc be knocking off eachother like same happens in Dublin and Cork.[/b]

true but that's the way it's always been, there's always been an identity with the Irish provinces, this hasn't been the case in Wales and itcan't just be shoved down their throats.
[/b][/quote]
I know that but they still have clubs and equivalent of AIL so like what really lost nothing. Welsh rugby at club level has became much more competitive and benefited national team to 2 grand slams since regions merged so don't agree with this boycotting cr*p.

Like in provinces we've seen every part of Europe following our teams while they struggle to travel within own country

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Sep 29 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 29 2009, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lads back to point why dont the WRU enforce it so and drop Cardiff from Blues etc and i know there rivalries at club level but like here in Ireland Munster play on sat we'll all shout on Paulie and boys then Sunday Shannon Garryowen Young Munster etc be knocking off eachother like same happens in Dublin and Cork.[/b]

true but that's the way it's always been, there's always been an identity with the Irish provinces, this hasn't been the case in Wales and itcan't just be shoved down their throats.
[/b][/quote]
I know that but they still have clubs and equivalent of AIL so like what really lost nothing. Welsh rugby at club level has became much more competitive and benefited national team to 2 grand slams since regions merged so don't agree with this boycotting cr*p.

Like in provinces we've seen every part of Europe following our teams while they struggle to travel within own country
[/b][/quote]

of course they lost something, they had their own clubs at the top level of the game in Wales, only for the regions to be created and usurp all that. They had the equivalent of a Premiership side only to be turned into a division 1 side the following season. It's easy seeing why regionalisation is so unpopular an idea in England.

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah, I think things are as good as they are right now with gradual evolution. Scarlets have gradually evolved from their roots and probably so will other teams throughout Europe. Trying to just issue draconian edicts to "create" new corporate identities, Pol Pot "Year Zero" style just turns off fans...

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindside6 @ Sep 30 2009, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Smartcooky - Were you on 'Long Look'?[/b]

No that was the Army exchange program.

I was on "Airwave", but it ran at the same time as "Long Look" and we traveled to UK together on board an RAF VC10 on a seemingly never ending stop-start flight that ran Auckland > Sydney > Singapore > Bahrain > RAF Gutersloh > RAF Brize Norton.

I was posted to 30MU at RAF Sealand, but did some short stay attachments to Brawdy (79 SQN Hawk T1) and the Phantom OCU at Leuchars.