More News on a Professional American League

[jonny24]

Nevermind misread

 

[jonny24]

Here's something I came across tonight.

http://www.rugbymag.com/super-league-/9804-western-clubs-confirm-pacific-rugby-premiership.html

And the official site: http://www.pacificrugbypremiership.com/

A west coast American competition to be run separately from the US Elite League. Nothing is mentioned about professionalism, but it's a step towards having more competitive leagues. Considering that there hasn't been much news regarding pro competitions it's nice to see some development.

I wonder if this could possibly include British Columbia in the future. Whether it be the Bears themselves or some of the top teams from the CDI Premier league. The proposed season is pretty much in line with what they play in BC.

 

[norcalbuff]

Here's something I came across tonight.

http://www.rugbymag.com/super-league-/9804-western-clubs-confirm-pacific-rugby-premiership.html

And the official site: http://www.pacificrugbypremiership.com/

A west coast American competition to be run separately from the US Elite League. Nothing is mentioned about professionalism, but it's a step towards having more competitive leagues. Considering that there hasn't been much news regarding pro competitions it's nice to see some development.

I wonder if this could possibly include British Columbia in the future. Whether it be the Bears themselves or some of the top teams from the CDI Premier league. The proposed season is pretty much in line with what they play in BC.

This is basically just a re-hashed West Coast version of Super League. I don't see this really developing into much, although I'd obviously be happy if it did.

What we really need, and what I think is the best path to professionalism here, is to have a region-based league in the summer like you guys have with the CRC. I've posted this on a couple other rugby forums so some of you may have read it, but this is what I want to see:

I've had this idea for a little bit about rugby in the US and how to transition to pro rugby while still keeping the top level clubs like OMBAC, SFGG, etc. somewhat involved. What I would do is more of a New Zealand regional style where the clubs feed into a regional team that the entire rugby community in that region can get behind. It would also allow the top college players to play and get the higher level that they need so that they aren't so unprepared for international rugby. So I would pick 6 regions on the West Coast and have them form teams in the summer, after the club and college seasons are over and perhaps after the June internationals. I'd break it down like this:

San Diego: OMBAC, Old Aztecs, SDSU, USA 7s, etc.
LA: Belmont Shore, Santa Monica, UCLA, Back Bay, etc.
Norcal: SFGG, Olympic Club, Cal, St Mary's, Sac Lions, East Palo Alto, etc.
Utah: Provo Steelers, Park City, BYU, U of Utah, etc.
Northwest: OPSB, Central Washington, UW, Eastside, etc.
Colorado: Denver Barbarians, Glendale, Air Force, CU, Boulder, etc.


And of course any players from any other clubs in the region could represent those regions. Split the teams into 2 conferences: California and CO/UT/WA. Then play home and away within your own conference and 1 time against the other conference. Then have the winner of each conference play in the championship game. That's 7 games each plus a championship game. The conferences cut down on travel and keep costs down while still getting high quality competition.


The idea behind this is that rather than having one club step up in each region with many of the other clubs hating that big club (I see this first hand with Glendale in Colorado and SFGG in Norcal), you'd be able to engage the entire rugby community in the region and get them out to games. We've seen the power of engaging the local rugby communities for Eagles tests in Philly and Houston this year. That would at least get rugby to a semi-pro level. It would also get crucial experience for college players. Good college teams only play 3 or 4 matches per year that are remotely competitive so this would get a lot more competition for the better players on those teams. Lastly, it would encourage the D2 teams and lower level D1 teams to develop talent. As it currently stands, there isn't a lot of incentive to do that because the top club in the area ends up usually poaching that talent. Getting players into these teams would be a source of pride for everyone and probably help keep talent at all clubs.


You could do the same thing on the East Coast using Boston, NYC, Philly, DC/Baltimore, Atlanta and Chicago. If successful enough, the teams could eventually form a single league but in the beginning this would keep costs down. A few places do get left out in this scenario, but Texas has already started this concept between Dallas, Houston and Austin so they could all develop independently.

This could obviously link up with the CRC longer term too, but I wouldn't initially because splitting the US into 12+ regions and Canada into 4 would mean the Canadian teams would be too dominant IMO.

 

[jonny24]

This is basically just a re-hashed West Coast version of Super League. I don't see this really developing into much, although I'd obviously be happy if it did.

What we really need, and what I think is the best path to professionalism here, is to have a region-based league in the summer like you guys have with the CRC. I've posted this on a couple other rugby forums so some of you may have read it, but this is what I want to see:

This could obviously link up with the CRC longer term too, but I wouldn't initially because splitting the US into 12+ regions and Canada into 4 would mean the Canadian teams would be too dominant IMO.

Perhaps eight regions would work better to start out. You'd have to look at how the existing top-level club competitions compare between the two countries. Are the CDI Premiership (BC) or Marshall Premier League (Ontario) comparable to the Elite Cup, or more at the level of Division I? This summer Ontario Blues beat Life University 36-20, and New York Athletic Club 38-23. So if our regions are roughly at the level of top level US clubs then I think 8-12 regions should be competitive.

I also think we should also be paying attention to the new Australian competition as it gets off the ground, and learn what we can from them.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

This is basically just a re-hashed West Coast version of Super League. I don't see this really developing into much, although I'd obviously be happy if it did.

What we really need, and what I think is the best path to professionalism here, is to have a region-based league in the summer like you guys have with the CRC. I've posted this on a couple other rugby forums so some of you may have read it, but this is what I want to see:



This could obviously link up with the CRC longer term too, but I wouldn't initially because splitting the US into 12+ regions and Canada into 4 would mean the Canadian teams would be too dominant IMO.

Franchising, based on a regional model is by far the best way to go here in North America. Individuals clubs don't have the resources or funding levels for professional rugby. The club model will not work in Canada or the USA.

 

[Jayatron]

Very frustrating subject because of its speed.

"Back in the USA, Melville has plans to introduce a professional six-team league with the hope that one day those <nobr>stars</nobr> will be playing on home soil rather than foreign turf, but funding is the issue.
One place the funding does not appear to be coming from, at present, is National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) - the body who pumps huge amounts of money into various college sports. Rugby is still predominantly a 'club' sport and does not receive this funding.
Despite this lack of financial aid, USA Rugby has 900 college programmes across the country with over a million children involved in the organisation's youth programme. But the jewel in the crown is still turning the current amateur league into a professional one.
"The big missing piece for us is professional rugby and a professional rugby tournament," Melville added. "That requires a large amount of money. We're still a small Union and we have plenty of competition from other sports.
"We have a good business plan which people can see, we have investors looking at it so we just need to move that forward."

Overall a good read, an offers a interesting insight into the American game. He says niche market but many nations would kill for these sorts of stats.

http://www.espn.co.uk/other/rugby/story/211697.html

 

[CoachInTexas]

I coach collegiate rugby where we are a "club" sport. We get very little money from the university to help with travel, yet have regularly scheduled matches as much as 7 hours away (Texas is a BIG state). It costs our players a good bit of their own money to play, but they do so because they LOVE the game. Unfortunately, there is no real path for them to continue their careers professionally beyond college. They usually continue to play club rugby, but that is not really a viable avenue to take to get to the 'professional' level anywhere (it only happens in very rare cases - i.e. Samu Manoa, Chris Wyles).

It is frustrating as a coach to not have anything to prime my players for or to help them develop an attainable career path for a viable, non-club rugby career post graduation.

 

[norcalbuff]

I coach collegiate rugby where we are a "club" sport. We get very little money from the university to help with travel, yet have regularly scheduled matches as much as 7 hours away (Texas is a BIG state). It costs our players a good bit of their own money to play, but they do so because they LOVE the game. Unfortunately, there is no real path for them to continue their careers professionally beyond college. They usually continue to play club rugby, but that is not really a viable avenue to take to get to the 'professional' level anywhere (it only happens in very rare cases - i.e. Samu Manoa, Chris Wyles).

It is frustrating as a coach to not have anything to prime my players for or to help them develop an attainable career path for a viable, non-club rugby career post graduation.

The USA coaching staff and USA Rugby in general have been better lately at getting players who are good enough pro contracts overseas. In the last 6 months ***i Lamositele, an 18 year old prop has gone straight from high school to being signed to the Saracens academy and Cam Dolan has gone straight from college rugby to Northampton. Basically, if you're good enough you'll get there these days at the top level at least. Obviously it would be good to have a pathway for guys who aren't quite at that level but in the meantime the Texas Cup might be a good pathway for your players. I noticed that none of the teams listed college players in the teams. Personally, I'm hugely in favor of any attempts to expand regional rep rugby and I think those sides should be required to have at least a couple college players in each team. Might be something worth approaching them about?

Do you coach at UT?

 

[welshglory]

I think a lot more american players have the quality to get pro contracts but visa issues, league nationality restrictions don't really help.

 

[CoachInTexas]

norcalbuff

We work through every avenue currently available - it would just be nice if there were more of those avenues. As far as the Texas Cup goes, I'm actually in favor of a Collegiate Texas Cup with ONLY college players representing the regions. USA Rugby is really good at reorganizing competitions, especially on the college side of the house - maybe someday we'll get more avenues opened up for ALL college players to be seen by the powers that be who have the connections to get more of our players exported.

welshglory is correct - there are a lot more American players with the quality to get pro contracts these days, but along with the problems he pointed out - if you aren't in certain parts of the country or affiliated with certain colleges or clubs, it is VERY hard to get any attention for your players.

On the plus side - we are having a RUGBY conversation

And no, I'm not at UT - down the road a bit

 

[norcalbuff]

norcalbuff

We work through every avenue currently available - it would just be nice if there were more of those avenues. As far as the Texas Cup goes, I'm actually in favor of a Collegiate Texas Cup with ONLY college players representing the regions. USA Rugby is really good at reorganizing competitions, especially on the college side of the house - maybe someday we'll get more avenues opened up for ALL college players to be seen by the powers that be who have the connections to get more of our players exported.

welshglory is correct - there are a lot more American players with the quality to get pro contracts these days, but along with the problems he pointed out - if you aren't in certain parts of the country or affiliated with certain colleges or clubs, it is VERY hard to get any attention for your players.

On the plus side - we are having a RUGBY conversation

And no, I'm not at UT - down the road a bit

That would be a good idea to have a college Texas Cup, perhaps playing in curtain raiser matches before the senior Texas Cup games. That could help increase the interest in both. But if you're talking about college players who have professional aspirations, they should absolutely being playing in those full Texas Cup sides. If they aren't at that level by the age of 19 or 20, and unless they are completely new to the sport, they really have little hope of playing rugby professionally. That's not meant to demean anyone, but it is reality.

I'm all for combing the country for the best players, but I really don't believe as many players are falling through the cracks as people claim. I heard for years, when Jack Clark and Tom Billups were the USA coaches, that selection was biased towards Cal and the West Coast, but the regional mix of players really didn't change once foreign coaches and admin came in. The best rugby is played in specific areas of the country and that's generally where the best players are going to come from. Guys who are good enough from the non-traditional areas, like Paul Emerick, generally get noticed.

 

[sigesige00]

I have some questions:

Why is the rink size of NHL different from international standard?
Why was Baseball born? If there had been a limited-over Cricket, there would have been no Baseball?

 

[LittleGuy]

I have some questions:

Why is the rink size of NHL different from international standard?
Why was Baseball born? If there had been a limited-over Cricket, there would have been no Baseball?

The rink size is different here just because it's always been that way to be frank, it's really how the arena's were built, when I was a kid the NHL didn't even have standard size rinks, some were shorter than 200 feet(including Buffalo where I went as a kid) and some were narrower than 85 feet. The NHL could have moved to International size in the 90's if they'd really wanted to but didn't for a couple of reasons.

1) You can't fit as many fans in the building with a wider rink. Plus older building would have had to undergo expensive renovations.

2) Entertainment, the bigger ice surface in the International game leads to a more possesion oriented game and less physical play. The NHL likes to market the big hits and rapid turnovers the smaller ice surface creates.


On baseball, it's most likely a derivative of the British game of "rounders" with additional elements of other bat and ball games along with added rules over time. The United States and Canada actually played agianst one another in the first ever Cricket international in 1844.

Baseball took off in popularity during the American Civil War (1860's) when bored soldiers needed a game to play in downtime and Baseball was much easier to fit in a smaller time frame than a cricket match. Modern baseball rules had probably been developed in the 1830's to 1840's but had been more local the Civil War spread the game States wide and into Canada by extension as well. Baseball continued to overtake Cricket in North America until the 1930's when Cricket essentially dissapeared in the United States and was a barely active fringe sport in Canada (the sport has seen some recent growth virtually all due to immigration from cricket interested countries). It's possible that limited overs cricket might have eliminated the growth of baseball but it's sooooo long ago I can only speculate, I'd say it wouldn't have but who really knows.

 

[sigesige00]

Thank you. I have another question. What sports are popular in Yukon and Alaska?

 

[jonny24]

Thank you. I have another question. What sports are popular in Yukon and Alaska?

Drinking. And moose polo.

 

[LittleGuy]

Thank you. I have another question. What sports are popular in Yukon and Alaska?

Ice Hockey. Dog sledding. Winter Sports. In Alaska there are probably people playing everything I would think though with shorter summer sports seasons due to the weather. Alaska has a population base big enough to even have competeive local leagues. There are about 730,000 people in Alaska with a substantial population around the biggest city Anchorage.

Alaska have a lower division Ice Hockey team that play out of Anchorage and have had a couple of NHL players.

Hockey would be big in the Yukon as well. Along with various other winter sports curling especially. Keep in mind that the population of Yukon is pretty tiny (34,000) and most of that is concentrated in the town of Whitehorse.(28,000 in the town and immediate area)

 

[sigesige00]

Ice Hockey. Dog sledding. Winter Sports. In Alaska there are probably people playing everything I would think though with shorter summer sports seasons due to the weather. Alaska has a population base big enough to even have competeive local leagues. There are about 730,000 people in Alaska with a substantial population around the biggest city Anchorage.

Alaska have a lower division Ice Hockey team that play out of Anchorage and have had a couple of NHL players.

Hockey would be big in the Yukon as well. Along with various other winter sports curling especially. Keep in mind that the population of Yukon is pretty tiny (34,000) and most of that is concentrated in the town of Whitehorse.(28,000 in the town and immediate area)

Oh, the population of Yukon is so tiny! What is the main industry in Yukon? Are they mainly indigenous people?
If I were US President I would sell Alaska to Canada...

 

[smartcooky]

If I were US President I would sell Alaska to Canada...

Is this guy for real!?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

 

[jonny24]

Oh, the population of Yukon is so tiny! What is the main industry in Yukon? Are they mainly indigenous people?

At this point I'd suggest a trip to Wikipedia sige.