My concerns

Discussion in 'Rugby Video Games & Apps' started by lazy_chesnut, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. lazy_chesnut

    lazy_chesnut Guest

    I have been very reserved so far in posting on this forum. One post so far to be exact, as I only signed up a few minutes ago, though I have been watching this forum for ages.

    I have a few questions/gripes which I don't think have been brought up as yet. So if any of you lot who have played the game/demo yet could answer this post it would be great. As a rugby player myself I have points which I consider valid and hope I'm not just wasting space on this great forum!

    I am numbering my points so potential reply-ers have an easier job, hopefully!

    Right, here goes.

    1 - Defence

    a) From what I have seen in the videos, it seems that the outside centre and wing seem to mark their opposite numbers very closely. This means that any team with a quick inside centre can easily get through the gap created by this strict marking.

    I know this is sometimes what happens in real rugby - I remember Matt Giteau scoring for Australia against England in the Autumn Tests by using this gap - but quite often, wouldn't the outside centre take a chance and go for the ball-carrier, leaving the winger to mark the outside centre, and the full-back to mark the overlapping winger? The marking seems to be a little too strict here.

    b) The defense never seems to progress as a line - ever! When the ball is played from the ruck, the human player seems to always charge the attacking line, but the rest of the defense stays behind, leaving "d0g-leg" gaps in midfield.

    2 - Attacking

    a) One of the first things I noticed in these videos was how the ball was always taken standing still. This didn't happen if the player decided to "pop" the ball to a forward on the fringes, however.

    It seems to take for ever for the players to get up to speed when taking the ball whilst still. However, the AI attack seems to be able to accelerate from standing start pretty well. This may be to do with when the sprint button is pressed, but I don't know.

    b) In Rugby 2001 (on the PC at least) when attacking, if the player ran the ball-carrier along the line (i.e. diagonally or literally sideways, like happens in a switch set play) your team-mates would continue their running lines, leaving you the option of passing to a team mate running a very good line, allowing line-breaks. In the videos, it seems that your team mates will always try to keep a set distance from you, both sideways and backwards, which means you can't pop the ball or dummy it for a break as described above.

    3 - Rucks/Mauls/General Forward Play

    a) I know rucking has been discussed over and over, but there is one thing that has never been asked, to my knowledge. Do the backs ever involve themselves in rucks? I remember playing on Rugby 2004 where I would make a tackle with, say, my outside centre, and the tackler and tackle-ee (?) would go to ground presenting the ball nicely. My winger would just stand and watch and basically wait until the team-with-the-ball's forwards came and won it.

    Does this still happen or will the backs get into the rucks? This would also allow for some interesting events in open play, like ending up with a prop defending on the wing or in the centre for the player/AI to try and target.

    Even Rugby 2001 allowed the backs to join rucks/mauls.

    b) The way in which the camera very quickly turns round to show who has possesion of the ball at the breakdown seems to imply automatic rucks again. I know you can add players and stuff, but it seems a bit pointless - better off leaving your forwards in the defensive line as possession seems to be decided as soon as the ball hits the ground, rather than waiting to see who has the momentum in the ruck (a la JLR).

    c) Only a small point this one. I hate the way in which sometimes when a player is tackled, a forward from one team or another will just come along and lie around the ball, just like in Rugby 2004. Now being a fullback by trade, I don't get into too many rucks, but I'm sure this is illegal!!

    d) The scrums seem to be pretty dodgy. I thought the Rugby 2004 system was good, but this time it seems that the scrum can be driven very quickly and excessively far, which could lead to easy push-over tries.

    e) Mauls seem a little pointless. There again seems to be a set distance which the maul can drive before being stopped. I think they should use what somebody suggested somewhere else on this forum for a control system for mauls - the attacking team has 3 options. Go "up the middle", to the right, or to the left, each in accordance with a button press, and the defence has to guess which "way" to defend. Getting it right stops the maul, but getting it wrong means you concede ground. But that's for next year's wishlist!

    4 - Miscellaneous Points

    a) Can tackles be penalised for being late, early on in the air at all?

    b) Do these highly-publicised high-tackles (I remeber seeing a clothesline by a French guy in a "Hits Don't Come Bigger" promo video) actually exist and are they penalised?

    c) Are yellow/red cards still in existence?

    d) Does the "Kill the ball" control actually have any useful purpose this time around rather than conceding an automatic penalty? For example, if the referee is a good distance from the ruck, could you sneak a hand in and try to steal the ball? Is there an actual animation for this this time, or does the game just stop, and the penalty is given, like in Rugby 2004?

    e) In Rugby 2004, if you chose a "Kick defense", the AI would automatically run the ball to the vacant space where the winger was, regardless of field position, effectively cheating. Does this still happen?

    f) Is it EVER possible to get a line-break using crash-ball, or does even getting through a miss-tackle slow you down so much that you are instantly tackled by all the forwards, like in Rugby 2004?

    g) What options are there with regards to tactics for the team? Like choosing defence type (rush, slide, agressive, reserved, etc.) or style of play (forwards, backs, kick for position, etc.). This would seem an obvious step forward given the "Forwards/Backs/Balanced" tactics in Rugby 2004


    Right, I think that's about it. There was one other thing but I forgot it just now. Never mind.

    I think the above is quite enough!

    Thank-you in advance to the people who reply to this!
     
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  3. Gay-Guy

    Gay-Guy Guest

    With the AI defence and the rushing line thing.....well, we don't know exactly how that works until we play the game, remember there are 4 defence types to choose from.

    Also keep in mind that perhaps the programmers were not putting a deliberate rush defence as this might kill the game. You can (I theorise) rush I suppose by converting to each player individually. I don't actually know.....just a theory.
     
  4. lazy_chesnut

    lazy_chesnut Guest

    Could you possibly elaborate on these 4 defence types? Are you talking in-game ore real-life here?

    I hadn't heard about these 4 defence types before now!
     
  5. Gay-Guy

    Gay-Guy Guest

    Oh...sorry,they are in a lot of the videos when Locks is defending. Look at the bottom of the screen and you will see the 4 options come up at a defensive ruck to choose from (just like you have 4 attacking options when are are attacking at a ruck. These come up on the screen pbecause Locksley is playing on the baby [​IMG] level. He also talks about them in his reviews. For memory they are Classic, Kick, Tight, and wide. However I am not sure if they rush.

    Both SJRL and R2004 had a line that moved forward as well as if you selected a player and turboed him forward he would go even faster for a behind the advantage line tackle.

    I am surprised yopu haven't heard about it as this is one of their big things in this game. They call it "on the fly plays" and it is widely known on their official sites and previews etc.
     
  6. Gay-Guy

    Gay-Guy Guest

    With Matt Giteaus inside break situation. Well Locks said this was done to stop people playing a run around the outside game. I suppose the setup might change at a ruck if someone chose the "tight " or "kick" (which I assume means the wingers hang back) defence. You should be able to convert to the outsides to make them come in for the tackle. I suppose it is all about practice..just like the other rugby games. I mean JLR was the worst hang back dee. You had to try out ways to fix up that problem.


    With the players recieving the ball standing still (one of the stink things about SJRL until you figured out what to do) if you watched the other videos you would have seen lots of forwards hitting the balls (ala R2004). I am sure Locks and AK47 have also talked about pick and go in their reviews.


    With the camera swithching to show who has possession must mean you are looking at the end typr of view. They do have the almost JLR side cam which is a bit like watching it on TV. Locks and Co. agree that this is the best cam and that only 2 are actually playable. The reason the camera swings around is to help the attacker (if you are playing multiplayer) otherwise the attacker would have to run and think everything in reverse.




    The player lying on the ruck animation is probably just that.....an animation. I don't think the player is actually lying and killing the ball. Remember it is not a real life game.



    With choosing tactics I have already mentioned this in my earlier post where you hadn't yet edited your post.
     
  7. ak47

    ak47 Guest

    1 - Defence

    a) From what I have seen in the videos, it seems that the outside centre and wing seem to mark their opposite numbers very closely. This means that any team with a quick inside centre can easily get through the gap created by this strict marking.

    I know this is sometimes what happens in real rugby - I remember Matt Giteau scoring for Australia against England in the Autumn Tests by using this gap - but quite often, wouldn't the outside centre take a chance and go for the ball-carrier, leaving the winger to mark the outside centre, and the full-back to mark the overlapping winger? The marking seems to be a little too strict here.

    I had no gripes with the one on one defense..it was tight and u were rewarded, for beating it

    [​IMG] The defense never seems to progress as a line - ever! When the ball is played from the ruck, the human player seems to always charge the attacking line, but the rest of the defense stays behind, leaving "d0g-leg" gaps in midfield.

    True but if the whole line moved up with the human player, and the attack got passed the human player, then there’d be nobody left to defend other than the FB.
    If u do not control anyone the defense stays in a line, if u decide to leave the defensive line, u gotto make sure, u make the tackle otherwise easy metres are gained, just like in real rugby
    If you pick the correct defense, for the offensive play, and use the big hit, u can really drive the offense backwards, losing momentum, and consequently possession, just like real rugby


    2 - Attacking

    a) One of the first things I noticed in these videos was how the ball was always taken standing still. This didn't happen if the player decided to "pop" the ball to a forward on the fringes, however.

    It seems to take for ever for the players to get up to speed when taking the ball whilst still. However, the AI attack seems to be able to accelerate from standing start pretty well. This may be to do with when the sprint button is pressed, but I don't know.

    This is all about what play you have picked from the ruck…if u pick a play and do not follow it correctly (ie pick a hit-up, but pass to fly half), the ball goes to ground, or the pass receiver will be flat footed. The #9 can run from the rucks like 2004 aswell

    [​IMG] In Rugby 2001 (on the PC at least) when attacking, if the player ran the ball-carrier along the line (i.e. diagonally or literally sideways, like happens in a switch set play) your team-mates would continue their running lines, leaving you the option of passing to a team mate running a very good line, allowing line-breaks. In the videos, it seems that your team mates will always try to keep a set distance from you, both sideways and backwards, which means you can't pop the ball or dummy it for a break as described above.

    At times it does look like this, but sometimes, u can get a supporter running hard onto a ball, at a different angle….furthur to this, I do believe, u can take control of the reveiver once the ball is passed, therefore the onus is on the player, to run which ever angle he/she (GF playing rugby) desires. Otherwise use the ‘on the fly’ play calling, where runners switch angles and wrap around creating multiple options to break the line



    3 - Rucks/Mauls/General Forward Play

    a) I know rucking has been discussed over and over, but there is one thing that has never been asked, to my knowledge. Do the backs ever involve themselves in rucks? I remember playing on Rugby 2004 where I would make a tackle with, say, my outside centre, and the tackler and tackle-ee (?) would go to ground presenting the ball nicely. My winger would just stand and watch and basically wait until the team-with-the-ball's forwards came and won it.

    Does this still happen or will the backs get into the rucks? This would also allow for some interesting events in open play, like ending up with a prop defending on the wing or in the centre for the player/AI to try and target.

    Backs do enter the rucks…in fact I nearly put the whole team into a ruck, in which left me short on defense on both openside and blindside, and I struggled in catch-up defense..truly brilliant.


    [​IMG] The way in which the camera very quickly turns round to show who has possesion of the ball at the breakdown seems to imply automatic rucks again. I know you can add players and stuff, but it seems a bit pointless - better off leaving your forwards in the defensive line as possession seems to be decided as soon as the ball hits the ground, rather than waiting to see who has the momentum in the ruck (a la JLR).

    I myself didn’t grasp how the rucks work, there’s a power bar, there’s other options with, binding and pushing, and even heard there’s a steal ball button, so its a lot more complex than rugby 2004 already, which is good news. I did see isolation get very penalized, ie u 90% lost the ball if u got urself isolated. Maybe use side cam if u don’t like the camera switch

    c) Only a small point this one. I hate the way in which sometimes when a player is tackled, a forward from one team or another will just come along and lie around the ball, just like in Rugby 2004. Now being a fullback by trade, I don't get into too many rucks, but I'm sure this is illegal!!

    Just part of the ruck animation I think..although I have not looked into things going on around the action…when playing, and in a panic, u just wanted to get the ball out of the ruck asap.

    d) The scrums seem to be pretty dodgy. I thought the Rugby 2004 system was good, but this time it seems that the scrum can be driven very quickly and excessively far, which could lead to easy push-over tries.

    Didn’t try a pushover try…but the srums are great….the hook button really works well, when timed right…it’s the same as 2004 basically….if u can drive the scrum along way its due to the opposition not pushing back

    e) Mauls seem a little pointless. There again seems to be a set distance which the maul can drive before being stopped. I think they should use what somebody suggested somewhere else on this forum for a control system for mauls - the attacking team has 3 options. Go "up the middle", to the right, or to the left, each in accordance with a button press, and the defence has to guess which "way" to defend. Getting it right stops the maul, but getting it wrong means you concede ground. But that's for next year's wishlist!

    The only maul I saw was from the lineouts….and u can push them as far as u want, until the opposition pushes back….and yes there’s no options but, either pass, or run from the back

    4 - Miscellaneous Points

    a) Can tackles be penalised for being late, early on in the air at all?

    Don’t know, did a mid air tackle and wasn’t penalized tho

    [​IMG] Do these highly-publicised high-tackles (I remeber seeing a clothesline by a French guy in a "Hits Don't Come Bigger" promo video) actually exist and are they penalised?

    Yes they exist, no haven’t seen a penalty other than for offside

    c) Are yellow/red cards still in existence?

    Have heard they are, didn’t see one in the 2 hrs I played

    d) Does the "Kill the ball" control actually have any useful purpose this time around rather than conceding an automatic penalty? For example, if the referee is a good distance from the ruck, could you sneak a hand in and try to steal the ball? Is there an actual animation for this this time, or does the game just stop, and the penalty is given, like in Rugby 2004?

    Cant answer this but have heard “kill the ball†is back, but better used

    e) In Rugby 2004, if you chose a "Kick defense", the AI would automatically run the ball to the vacant space where the winger was, regardless of field position, effectively cheating. Does this still happen?

    Hmmm???

    f) Is it EVER possible to get a line-break using crash-ball, or does even getting through a miss-tackle slow you down so much that you are instantly tackled by all the forwards, like in Rugby 2004?

    No the line-breaks are bliss, like 2001, once thru, the winds in the hair, and its time to line-up the FB, or slow down for support

    g) What options are there with regards to tactics for the team? Like choosing defence type (rush, slide, agressive, reserved, etc.) or style of play (forwards, backs, kick for position, etc.). This would seem an obvious step forward given the "Forwards/Backs/Balanced" tactics in Rugby 2004

    Offense – Standard, Wide, Tight, Kick
    Defense – standard, Wide, Tight

    I do recall a pivot option aswell
     
  8. locksley

    locksley Guest

    [/B]a) Can tackles be penalised for being late, early on in the air at all?

    No! I don't think so! After many hours, days, weeks of play, I've NEVER been penalised for a high, early or late tackle!

    [​IMG] Do these highly-publicised high-tackles (I remember seeing a clothesline by a French guy in a "Hits Don't Come Bigger" promo video) actually exist and are they penalised?

    There are massive hits, that look suspiciously high, but they're never penalised!

    c) Are yellow/red cards still in existence?

    Yes! Definately. Collapsing scrums is the best way to get your players sin-binned/sent off! Although how the hell they can pick just one man for collapsing a scrum is beyond me! [​IMG]

    d) Does the "Kill the ball" control actually have any useful purpose this time around rather than conceding an automatic penalty? For example, if the referee is a good distance from the ruck, could you sneak a hand in and try to steal the ball? Is there an actual animation for this this time, or does the game just stop, and the penalty is given, like in Rugby 2004?

    Mmmmm! Dodgy this one! Yes, it's better than 2004! You get away with it occasionally, but almost 9 times out of 10 you'll be spotted!


    e) In Rugby 2004, if you chose a "Kick defense", the AI would automatically run the ball to the vacant space where the winger was, regardless of field position, effectively cheating. Does this still happen?

    No. If you're pinning the attacking team in their own 22, choose a kick defence at the ruck and your wingers will run back. The half back nearly always kicks the ball away! But more often than not, he'll try to kick it into space rather than straight at the wingers/full back!

    f) Is it EVER possible to get a line-break using crash-ball, or does even getting through a miss-tackle slow you down so much that you are instantly tackled by all the forwards, like in Rugby 2004?

    Yes, it is, but, I'll have to disagree with AK47 on this, it's very hard to keep on running once you've made that initial break! The defenders catch you very quickly!


    g) What options are there with regards to tactics for the team? Like choosing defence type (rush, slide, agressive, reserved, etc.) or style of play (forwards, backs, kick for position, etc.). This would seem an obvious step forward given the "Forwards/Backs/Balanced" tactics in Rugby 2004

    OFFENCE SET PLAYS AT RUCKS or SCRUMS

    D pad left - Classic
    D pad up - Switch
    D pad Right - Pivot
    D pad Down - Pocket

    DEFENCE AT RUCK

    D pad left - Standard defence
    D pad up - kick defence
    D pad Right - Wide Defence
    D pad Down - Tight Defence
     
  9. jonwebb

    jonwebb Guest

    Do you have anything good to say about the game?

    Also the tackle in the picture is amazing. That would of hurt too.
     
  10. lazy_chesnut

    lazy_chesnut Guest

    I'm only writing what I am unaware of in this game. If that then turns out to be a bad point of the game, then it's not my fault.

    Take the reply about the scrummaging for example - I'm told it's really good. So now I don't worry about it.....and can sleep at night.....

    And by the way, that tackle didn't hurt that much - you can see I got my hand out to save myself, and still held the ball! We got a penalty for dangerous play anyway!!
     
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