Nation Eligibilty Catch-All Thread

[Kiwiwomble]

bit of a random one, Jermaine Ainsley (3 cap wallaby tighthead prop) is now available for the All blacks, playing well for the Highlanders. If anything i feel its a case of the Wallabys poaching him as hes born and bred in NZ (Otago Boys High School) and the son of All Black Joe Macdonell....but it still feels very weird for it even to be an option

 

[die_mole]

He'll probably turn into an 80 cap all black. Hasn't there been a couple players that were in the Aussie system, flunked out, joined a super rugby club and then had pretty successful careers?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

All of these make me sick. Really hope we don't see as many changing as rumoured.

Just makes a mockery of the international game.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

He'll probably turn into an 80 cap all black. Hasn't there been a couple players that were in the Aussie system, flunked out, joined a super rugby club and then had pretty successful careers?

not that i can think of, a few league players coming over, Brad Thorne for example and a few kiwis going to aussie super teams...not a huge number coming from the aussie system and making it in NZ

 

[BPM]

Scottish shamelessness highlighted yet again …

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Scotland produce their own players challenge (impossible)

 

[Reiser99]

Scottish shamelessness highlighted yet again …

Those confirmed or who they are trying to get?

 

[BPM]

Hutchinson is capped already so I'm not sure why he's included.

The rest are players they want to poach.

Arundell has played a handful of senior games and Fin Smith is 19. This is exactly the sort of poaching I hate. 'You're not ready for test rugby and you have no connection to Scottish rugby, but if you tour with us, we'll cap you quicker than England'. Shameful.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Those confirmed or who they are trying to get?

Just a podcast saying who they want, really

Though I know Scotland have spoken to (at least) Arundell and Roebuck and offered them spots in the senior squad if they declare for Scotland

 

[BPM]

It's just embarrassing though. These kids shouldn't be being coerced in to this kind of decision at this point in their careers.

When the Scotland squad already includes more foreigners than Scotsmen, it becomes laughable.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Can see Roebuck declaring for Scotland

He's a good winger but Reed and others have more upside.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can see Roebuck declaring for Scotland

He's a good winger but Reed and others have more upside.

Neither will play internationally IMO - though Roebuck might get a couple of token caps just to tie him in in case he has a meteoric rise (still very young, tbf to him)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think there's much wrong with what Scotland are doing other than it having a very low chance of being successful.

The "resurgence" of Scottish rugby was built around SRU produced players and a smattering of smart players qualified through parentage or residency. They're wasting minutes on guys in the hope that if they throw enough **** some of it will stick, considering they've had gifted players like Hastings and Kinghorn develop poorly you'd think there's better use of minutes. The SRU and Townsend have killed a lot of Cotter's good work with this misguided approach.

 

[Reiser99]

Charlie Chapman is playing for Scotland u20's so no issue with him.

Hutchinson is capped already so I'm not sure why he's included.

When you're so busy trying to cap anyone with a hint of Scottishness you completely lose track of who you have capped.

I don't think there's much wrong with what Scotland are doing other than it having a very low chance of being successful.

The "resurgence" of Scottish rugby was built around SRU produced players and a smattering of smart players qualified through parentage or residency. They're wasting minutes on guys in the hope that if they throw enough **** some of it will stick, considering they've had gifted players like Hastings and Kinghorn develop poorly you'd think there's better use of minutes. The SRU and Townsend have killed a lot of Cotter's good work with this misguided approach.

I have two main issues. Firstly it's that these players aren't ready for international rugby. Caps should be earned and while the summer tours should be used for development, in this scenario they are just capping players to tie them to Scotland. Why should England be forced to cap young, inexperienced players who have been developed through the English system just to stop Scotland capping them by promising them international rugby when they aren't ready. Second is the age. Some of these players have barely turned 18 and are being forced to make an important choice when they've barely started playing first team rugby at club level. Scotland should honestly feel ashamed for forcing this choice on them and for me it's an abuse of power. They know they are in a position of power over these young players and are trying to manipulate them. I'd say it's very similar to the pedophiles operated by tempting kids with sweets. Very different circumstances, but same psychology.

 

[big ginger 8]

bit of a random one, Jermaine Ainsley (3 cap wallaby tighthead prop) is now available for the All blacks, playing well for the Highlanders. If anything i feel its a case of the Wallabys poaching him as hes born and bred in NZ (Otago Boys High School) and the son of All Black Joe Macdonell....but it still feels very weird for it even to be an option

How likely is Oli Jaeger to get capped this year? Potentially vs Ireland?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Charlie Chapman is playing for Scotland u20's so no issue with him.

When you're so busy trying to cap anyone with a hint of Scottishness you completely lose track of who you have capped.


I have two main issues. Firstly it's that these players aren't ready for international rugby. Caps should be earned and while the summer tours should be used for development, in this scenario they are just capping players to tie them to Scotland. Why should England be forced to cap young, inexperienced players who have been developed through the English system just to stop Scotland capping them by promising them international rugby when they aren't ready. Second is the age. Some of these players have barely turned 18 and are being forced to make an important choice when they've barely started playing first team rugby at club level. Scotland should honestly feel ashamed for forcing this choice on them and for me it's an abuse of power. They know they are in a position of power over these young players and are trying to manipulate them. I'd say it's very similar to the pedophiles operated by tempting kids with sweets. Very different circumstances, but same psychology.

I mean it's an offer to work. Chances are when I or any of my colleagues at the same level get our professional qualifications we'll be headhunted for higher paying jobs, often in house or in tax haven islands, with less chance of progression than our current trajectory, this is essentially what Scotland offer.

Easier initial path, worse quality of rugby and less sponsorship opportunities but trying to lure people in by offering a higher immediate job status than they'd get sticking on the current course. These kids know that, and if they don't they really ought to. Is there leverage there? Of course, but it's not unethical, it's your perception* of what international rugby should be that makes it seem that way.

*Yours and many others so no criticism there, but the system is the issue rather than SRU.

 

[Groundhog]

How likely is Oli Jaeger to get capped this year? Potentially vs Ireland?

Jager is a weird one. Seems extremely determined to play for the All Blacks. How is he actually playing though? I don't watch SR so have no idea how close he is to an AB squad.

On eligibility.... Man I don't think there's much issue at the moment. The residency rules being raised from 3 to 5 was common sense and a positive move. 20s tying players to a country? Sure why not. Maybe let unions designate their second team that ties players as was.

Mildly off topic, but Spain could be in trouble AGAIN for eligibility. If they get tossed from a second world cup for fluffing their eligibility it's just incompetent.

 

[Reiser99]

I mean it's an offer to work. Chances are when I or any of my colleagues at the same level get our professional qualifications we'll be headhunted for higher paying jobs, often in house or in tax haven islands, with less chance of progression than our current trajectory, this is essentially what Scotland offer.

Easier initial path, worse quality of rugby and less sponsorship opportunities but trying to lure people in by offering a higher immediate job status than they'd get sticking on the current course. These kids know that, and if they don't they really ought to. Is there leverage there? Of course, but it's not unethical, it's your perception* of what international rugby should be that makes it seem that way.

*Yours and many others so no criticism there, but the system is the issue rather than SRU.

International rugby is not the same though as a promotion in another career. Their job is still with their club. If anything this is like a consultancy or temporary work while still remaining employed. The other big difference is that if you are head hunted your career is not then limited to that company for the rest of your career. If it turns out to be a mistake you can move on and I guess now in theory players can do that, but 3 years is a long time to wait. The other big difference is they aren't playing international rugby for the money. Yes it's a nice bonus, but players don't play for their countries just for the pay day.

As for these kids knowing that. How many 18-21 year olds know exactly what they are doing or are aware of every detail when choosing a career. Not many. I know we disagree, but for me it is unethical because Scotland's motivations are wrong. They aren't offering caps to these players because they deserve it, they are offering caps to increase their player pool and give themselves options. Scotland's motivations are not in the interest of the players but in the interest of themselves.

 

[ncurd]

In employment terms its more akin to be headhunted by a company that requires security clearance. Like you might meet technical requirements but there are rules based on your standing as a person before you can take the job.

Now are Scotland like Johnson employing Lebedev despite warnings?

 

[BPM]

International rugby is not the same though as a promotion in another career. Their job is still with their club. If anything this is like a consultancy or temporary work while still remaining employed. The other big difference is that if you are head hunted your career is not then limited to that company for the rest of your career. If it turns out to be a mistake you can move on and I guess now in theory players can do that, but 3 years is a long time to wait. The other big difference is they aren't playing international rugby for the money. Yes it's a nice bonus, but players don't play for their countries just for the pay day.

As for these kids knowing that. How many 18-21 year olds know exactly what they are doing or are aware of every detail when choosing a career. Not many. I know we disagree, but for me it is unethical because Scotland's motivations are wrong. They aren't offering caps to these players because they deserve it, they are offering caps to increase their player pool and give themselves options. Scotland's motivations are not in the interest of the players but in the interest of themselves.

This is exactly my feeling.