New changes to Super Rugby - Bonus Points, TMO & Referee

[TRF_heineken]

When you say "no", particularly after i quoted an official source, it'd be nice if you come up with something a little stronger than a self made definition, namely a source. It's very hard to take your word at face value when it contradicts what the laws of the game state.
In order to prove me wrong, which i hope you do, you have two options:

1) Either point out where my understanding of the laws i quoted falls short
2) Quote another source that overrides mine

Since point 2) doesn't seem possible, you are left with only one option, which you have not exercised. I'm afraid i have no option other than to stand correct.

I understand where you are coming from, and that is what i though at first, but i actually took the time to check.
Foul play is not just that. Foul play is, according to the laws of the game as posted by the game's governing body:

"Foul play is anything a player does within the playing enclosure that is against the letter and spirit of the Laws of the Game. It includes obstruction, unfair play, repeated infringements, dangerous play and misconduct which is prejudicial to the Game."

Source: http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=10&language=EN

It does state on the second sentence something along the lines of what you stated, but the first sentence is crystal clear.

Where in this quoted clause does it state that a forward pass is an act of foul play??? I know english might be your second language just like it is mine, but perhaps you need to read the paragraph in its entirety and not just focus on a small part.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

EDIT: not worth it.
English ain't my second lang btw.

@smartcooky: Thanks.

 

[gaston le gaff]

The Top 14 bonus point system is too stupid for words, and we should not be following it. The system we had wasn't broken and it didn't need fixing.

please explain why it is stupid!!!! the end of the season you have probably 8 to 10 able to qualify for the TOP 6 playoffs and 4/6 teams could be involved in relegation so the season is not over till the final weekend, which has been proved in the last 2 seasons, with teams scoring in the last minute to qualify for the Top 6 and teams being relegated in the last mins of the final weekends games, which is all very exciting for the supporters, so where does stupid come from S H rugby is adopting moreorless the same conditions with the tries and maybe the 5 pt bonus defensive point will come later as it did in France.

 

[smartcooky]

Please explain why it is stupid!!!! the end of the season you have probably 8 to 10 able to qualify for the TOP 6 playoffs and 4/6 teams could be involved in relegation so the season is not over till the final weekend, which has been proved in the last 2 seasons, with teams scoring in the last minute to qualify for the Top 6 and teams being relegated in the last mins of the final weekends games, which is all very exciting for the supporters, so where does stupid come from S H rugby is adopting moreorless the same conditions with the tries and maybe the 5 pt bonus defensive point will come later as it did in France.

Last time I looked, Super Rugby had exciting finishes to the season too, so nothing needed to change.

The Four try bonus point is for attacking performance. I am vehemently opposed to the idea a losing team can prevent a winning team from gaining a bonus point. Such a system is vulnerable to stupid consequences e.g.

Team "A" is leading Team "B" 46-5 in the last minute (4 converted tries and 5 penalty goals and a dropped goal to an unconverted try). They have the win and a bonus point. In the last minute, Team "B" score a second unconverted try,. Team "A" wins 46-10 but they lose their bonus point. IMO, this is beyond stupid.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not really! If they were winning 46/0 and let the opposition score they were obviously coasting or not focused!

If they had scored 5 or 6 tries in that 46 points then they would not be bothered as the differential for BP is 3!!

Keeps both sides interested and honest for the benefit of, not least, the spectators!!

 

[Car]

Exactly. The French system means that you can't just relax once you've scored 4 tries, but need to keep on going.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Last time I looked, Super Rugby had exciting finishes to the season too, so nothing needed to change.

The Four try bonus point is for attacking performance. I am vehemently opposed to the idea a losing team can prevent a winning team from gaining a bonus point. Such a system is vulnerable to stupid consequences e.g.

Team "A" is leading Team "B" 46-5 in the last minute (4 converted tries and 5 penalty goals and a dropped goal to an unconverted try). They have the win and a bonus point. In the last minute, Team "B" score a second unconverted try,. Team "A" wins 46-10 but they lose their bonus point. IMO, this is beyond stupid.

A team that has already scoed four tries in competitions would not be taking penalties (5 you stated ) they would be kicking to touch to gain ground advantage to score even more tries, not penalties. your example is not a common one so i think maybe this is stupid and not the French bonus system!!!!!!!!!!!! and although you think its stupid the authorities seem to be giving it a go and therefore probably not thinking it is all that stupid after all.

 

[smartcooky]

A team that has already scoed four tries in competitions would not be taking penalties (5 you stated ) they would be kicking to touch to gain ground advantage to score even more tries, not penalties.

What makes you think that the five penalties all came after the four tries? Perhaps they came first. Perhaps they were interspersed.

your example is not a common one so i think maybe this is stupid and not the French bonus system!!!!!!!!!!!! and although you think its stupid the authorities seem to be giving it a go and therefore probably not thinking it is all that stupid after all.

It may not be common, but something like it could happen

What this French system does is place the emphasis on playing defensively to keep your bonus point. This goes against the very reason for which bonus points were conceived and introduced in the first place; as an ATTACKING PERFORMANCE INCENTIVE!!

► The four try BP is a reward for ATTACKING for both the winning and the losing team
► The close loss BP a reward for continuing to ATTACK even when losing

In MY opinion (and last time I looked, we were allowed to hold opinions on this forum) it is a stupid concept.

Furthermore I absolutely HATE it when administrators, bean-counters and "marketing" consultants fiddle with things that are already working just fine. The bonus points system in Super Rugby was working perfectly; it was NOT BROKEN and it did not need fixing. There are far more serious things in Super Rugby that ARE broken, such as poor crowd numbers, a cock-eyed conference system with different numbers of teams and an even more cock-eyed format that requires a degree in Applied Mathematics to understand. Fcuking around with the bonus points system is a waste of time and does not address any of these serious issues.

 

[nickdnz]

What makes you think that the five penalties all came after the four tries? Perhaps they came first. Perhaps they were interspersed.



It may not be common, but something like it could happen

What this French system does is place the emphasis on playing defensively to keep your bonus point. This goes against the very reason for which bonus points were conceived and introduced in the first place; as an ATTACKING PERFORMANCE INCENTIVE!!

► The four try BP is a reward for ATTACKING for both the winning and the losing team
► The close loss BP a reward for continuing to ATTACK even when losing

In MY opinion (and last time I looked, we were allowed to hold opinions on this forum) it is a stupid concept.

Furthermore I absolutely HATE it when administrators, bean-counters and "marketing" consultants fiddle with things that are already working just fine. The bonus points system in Super Rugby was working perfectly; it was NOT BROKEN and it did not need fixing. There are far more serious things in Super Rugby that ARE broken, such as poor crowd numbers, a cock-eyed conference system with different numbers of teams and an even more cock-eyed format that requires a degree in Applied Mathematics to understand. Fcuking around with the bonus points system is a waste of time and does not address any of these serious issues.

Here here!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

looks like we have different ideas and thoughts on this bonus situation but then again that's what forums are all about if everyone agreed it would be boring!!!!!!
you have quoted your examples of match results how about this.
Team A score 4 unconverted tries 20pts and Team B (your team at home) score 2 converted tries and 4 penalties 26pts team A gets 2 pts and Team B 4pts. scoring 2 less tries and a win but team A score 4 tries are within 7pts so a second bonus point, still losing the game they have 2 precious points exactly the same as a draw if no one scores 4 tries!!!!!!! surely the draw away from home is a better result???
in France Team A would get 0pts and Team B 4 pts. which ever way you look at it i believe that the French system is better but so there is a difference of opinions, no problem for me, and we'll leave it at that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tony Manx]

looks like we have different ideas and thoughts on this bonus situation but then again that's what forums are all about if everyone agreed it would be boring!!!!!!
you have quoted your examples of match results how about this.
Team A score 4 unconverted tries 20pts and Team B (your team at home) score 2 converted tries and 4 penalties 26pts team A gets 2 pts and Team B 4pts. scoring 2 less tries and a win but team A score 4 tries are within 7pts so a second bonus point, still losing the game they have 2 precious points exactly the same as a draw if no one scores 4 tries!!!!!!! surely the draw away from home is a better result???
in France Team A would get 0pts and Team B 4 pts. which ever way you look at it i believe that the French system is better but so there is a difference of opinions, no problem for me, and we'll leave it at that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here here!!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

looks like we have different ideas and thoughts on this bonus situation but then again that's what forums are all about if everyone agreed it would be boring!!!!!!
you have quoted your examples of match results how about this.
Team A score 4 unconverted tries 20pts and Team B (your team at home) score 2 converted tries and 4 penalties 26pts team A gets 2 pts and Team B 4pts. scoring 2 less tries and a win but team A score 4 tries are within 7pts so a second bonus point, still losing the game they have 2 precious points exactly the same as a draw if no one scores 4 tries!!!!!!! surely the draw away from home is a better result???
in France Team A would get 0pts and Team B 4 pts. which ever way you look at it i believe that the French system is better but so there is a difference of opinions, no problem for me, and we'll leave it at that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you shouting??

Do you honestly think that it will improve your chances that others take your opinion more seriously than others?

My opinion on this matter is that I don't understand why the SH would want to use the French league and it's ideas as a model. The Super Rugby tournament and it's format has been working perfectly fine for years, so why change?

I agree with Cooky on the matter that this new proposed plan would focus more on defence and less on attack. Which I already previously stated, could just benefit the SA teams more than the other teams.

I don't like the idea of SANZAR using NH and especially French ideas. The next thing they want is to promote home wins, and let the referees play more advantage for the home teams. We might as well just bring back Stuart Dickenson and only allow him to referee matches between Aussie teams on home soil when they play SA, NZ ARG and JAP teams.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Why are you shouting??

Do you honestly think that it will improve your chances that others take your opinion more seriously than others?

My opinion on this matter is that I don't understand why the SH would want to use the French league and it's ideas as a model. The Super Rugby tournament and it's format has been working perfectly fine for years, so why change?

I agree with Cooky on the matter that this new proposed plan would focus more on defence and less on attack. Which I already previously stated, could just benefit the SA teams more than the other teams.

I don't like the idea of SANZAR using NH and especially French ideas. The next thing they want is to promote home wins, and let the referees play more advantage for the home teams. We might as well just bring back Stuart Dickenson and only allow him to referee matches between Aussie teams on home soil when they play SA, NZ ARG and JAP teams.

if you think this is shouting you are so off the mark, everyone has opinions and unless things have changed we are allowed to state the same, to be honest i don't really care what you do down in the SH. I do take offence when someone says the French system is stupid especially when the SH are going to use the same system, so i presume all involved in changing the system must be stupid, but i am not going to get into an open battle about this. People have opinions and i respect thatso lets leave it at that.
no more no less so get off your high horse my friend .

 

[TRF_heineken]

if you think this is shouting you are so off the mark, everyone has opinions and unless things have changed we are allowed to state the same, to be honest i don't really care what you do down in the SH. I do take offence when someone says the French system is stupid especially when the SH are going to use the same system, so i presume all involved in changing the system must be stupid, but i am not going to get into an open battle about this. People have opinions and i respect thatso lets leave it at that.
no more no less so get off your high horse my friend .

The last time I checked, exclamation marks was used as a literary form of expressing shouting/screaming...

But don't worry your sweet little old head, this plan hasn't been approved or even finalised yet, so the possibility still exists that it might not change at all.

 

[austingtir]

Not really! If they were winning 46/0 and let the opposition score they were obviously coasting or not focused!

If they had scored 5 or 6 tries in that 46 points then they would not be bothered as the differential for BP is 3!!

Keeps both sides interested and honest for the benefit of, not least, the spectators!!

I see nothing but crazy logic here. Man you europeans are crazy!


Im sorry but if a team is thumped like that their teams AND their supporters damn well deserve to go home totally dispondent. Anybody that thinks otherwise is just plain retarded imo.

 

[gaston le gaff]

The last time I checked, exclamation marks was used as a literary form of expressing shouting/screaming...

But don't worry your sweet little old head, this plan hasn't been approved or even finalised yet, so the possibility still exists that it might not change at all.

since ever the exclamations marks are a trait of my style (like it or not) nothing to do with shouting but when it is finalised i will be laughing all the way to the bank !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"sweet little old head" whats that all about most, in fact all the SA,s i have met are always polite and respectful and at Montpellier over the years there have been many (this is my 10th season as club official) so are you the one that broke the mould? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheOvalBall]

I'm not sure about the 3 extra tries rule, but i am for reduced bonus points. Bonus points should not decide the outcome of anything.
The change i like the most is doing away with the "check for forward pass rule" That was just awful, and so frustrating to watch.

So kudos to SANZAR for that.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Trouble is, all too often players are trying to genuinely catch the ball and they get pinged for an intentional knock forward.

 

[smartcooky]

since ever the exclamations marks are a trait of my style (like it or not) nothing to do with shouting but when it is finalised i will be laughing all the way to the bank !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"a person's sanity is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation marks they use!"
- Terry Pratchett

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I wouldn't know if a greater focus on defense would in fact benefit SA teams more- have you seen our franchizes' tackle stats for 2015? All I can say is it makes for depressing reading.