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Nigel Owens to referee the RWC Final

psychic duck

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By the same token, Owens will not let Pocock, Hooper, McCaw or any jacklers get away with leaning on the ground while jackling for the ball. This is a technique that all three, Pocock especially, get away with a lot, especially with Wayne Barnes as referee. In the Sydney test this year, refereed by Barnes, Pocock was allowed to do this with impunity, but he was stopped in his tracks by Owens when he came on on the 27th minute of the return match a week later.

Because Owens is always super hot on jacklers going beyond the ball .... NOT.

 
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gamine

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I think that this is where the problem lies, not all the refs seem to agree. One comes down hard on one thing, another on something else. Not the refs fault really, as the rules are too arcane these days, witness the discussion of the forward pass on the letter to world rugby thread, but you will need a GCSE in physics to understand it!
 

dragos03

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Who's a good referee in your mind?

The overall standard has been poor but I liked Garces at this RWC so far.

As someone else said above, I think refs should be noticed as little as possible, not try to step into the spotlight like Owens constantly does.
 

The_Blindside

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Kiwi_

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Barnes will undoubtedly be wanting to put his stamp on the game, expect some unnecessary interventions and citings and of course when he's charging down the line when Aussie score, we will see a huge grin on his mug like we did in Auckland, if you subtitled it, it would have read "muahaha".
 

gamine

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Barnes will undoubtedly be wanting to put his stamp on the game, expect some unnecessary interventions and citings and of course when he's charging down the line when Aussie score, we will see a huge grin on his mug like we did in Auckland, if you subtitled it, it would have read "muahaha".

I don't like Barnes much because he red-carded Dylan Hartley once, and I like Dylan Hartley because he is (was!) our best player - actually I think he is a New Zealander?
 

Shaggy

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Barnes will undoubtedly be wanting to put his stamp on the game, expect some unnecessary interventions and citings and of course when he's charging down the line when Aussie score, we will see a huge grin on his mug like we did in Auckland, if you subtitled it, it would have read "muahaha".

I don't mind if the Assistants do their job, and intervene when necessary; they only refer for the ref to decide after all ... hopefully Mr Barnes will be able to police the offside lines a bit better than when he is in the middle.

I think Owens is the right choice.
I prefer JP Doyle, but he's not as experienced.
I also think Barnes is a better referee, but the stink that NZ would kick up over his appointment wouldn't be worth it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how good Wayne Barnes is: I can't see that "the stink" would be any greater than what the French would have kicked up, if Joubert had refffed our quarter final.
 
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munstermuffin

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Huge shout out for Lacey too and his rapid rise.
 

Shaggy

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This. A complete guesser at scrum. Notable how most teams without English first language don't like him. Argentina complained about him for his performance vs Australian in 2013, nor have the French always been too complimentary about him. Not surprising to see Kiwis kissing his arse though. He and Joubert are their two favoured refs.


... Lucky that both sides are English speaking then isn't it :p ... I would have been happy with anyone but Wayne Barnes TBH ... not surprising to see a lot of anti-Owens sentiment around though, as most "neutrals" want to see the All Blacks lose anyway, but I can't see how an of his perceived flaws in his refereeing are going to disadvantage the Wallabies.
 
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austingtir

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I don't like Barnes much because he red-carded Dylan Hartley once, and I like Dylan Hartley because he is (was!) our best player - actually I think he is a New Zealander?

I saw that on the tube. Hartley was being a grade A pratt but Barnes jeez talk about overreaction.


Im sure someone on here said he's actually welsh but somehow escaped across the border and became an Englishman.
 

YoungScud

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It's John Jeffrey, of World Rugby (WR) and head of referees, who has given direction to refs at this RWC to allow scrum halves to have their left shoulder in line with the mark when they feed the ball into the scrum, to enable the hooker to hook the ball. That is why we are seeing crooked feeds into the scrum again. I read this in an interview with him in the Sunday Times. It is a joke really that hookers are afraid to lift their right foot to hook the ball more easily, because they should be skilful enough to be able to do this before the shove from the opposition pack. Shame really, the crooked feed has returned and WR has sanctioned it and basically telling refs to ignore the laws you state above.


http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/88747

Posted on RWC's website on 8th September, and I quote:

"Referees at the World Cup have been told to take care that scrum-halfs feed the ball in straight so that there is a fair contest between hookers. "

I rest my case.
 

The_Blindside

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http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/88747

Posted on RWC's website on 8th September, and I quote:

"Referees at the World Cup have been told to take care that scrum-halfs feed the ball in straight so that there is a fair contest between hookers. "

I rest my case.

Well, clearly John Jeffery is telling Referees one thing and WR is espousing another on their website to look good. As how many straight feeds into scrums have you seen, which have led to a proper contest between hookers and refs blowing up and penalising scrumhalved? I've not seen any of the matches I've watched. I can only summise that this is because refs have been given a different direction behind closed doors to get scrums moving and not let too many stoppages/collapses.

The interview with John Jeffery was in the Sunday Times a week before the RWC commenced. I would put a link up, but the Sunday Times is under paid wall.
 

ncurd

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YoungScud

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Well, clearly John Jeffery is telling Referees one thing and WR is espousing another on their website to look good. As how many straight feeds into scrums have you seen, which have led to a proper contest between hookers and refs blowing up and penalising scrumhalved? I've not seen any of the matches I've watched. I can only summise that this is because refs have been given a different direction behind closed doors to get scrums moving and not let too many stoppages/collapses.

The interview with John Jeffery was in the Sunday Times a week before the RWC commenced. I would put a link up, but the Sunday Times is under paid wall.



Oh, I wasn't doubting you. The whole thing smacks of hypocrisy to me though.
 

psychic duck

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The_Blindside

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Oh, I wasn't doubting you. The whole thing smacks of hypocrisy to me though.

Exactly. The only video I can find of straight feed and proper hook is found at following link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zwdxp39

Scroll down to 4. What's gone wrong with the scrum? The Brian Moore video and go to about 40 seconds. None of the matches I've seen, including Japan, have any of the feeds into the scrum been anywhere near this straight. The scrum half has either fed it in crooked or straight under their hooker's foot, thus not allowing a contest of the ball by the other hooker.
 

Shaggy

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Exactly. The only video I can find of straight feed and proper hook is found at following link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zwdxp39

Scroll down to 4. What's gone wrong with the scrum? The Brian Moore video and go to about 40 seconds. None of the matches I've seen, including Japan, have any of the feeds into the scrum been anywhere near this straight. The scrum half has either fed it in crooked or straight under their hooker's foot, thus not allowing a contest of the ball by the other hooker.


Straight feeds into the scrums have been a bit of a bug bear of mine for some time actually; lineout throws get policed for not being down the middle, the passing of the ball in general play gets policed for forward passing, but scrum feeds don't. I think the last time I saw a penalty for one was Tawera Kerr-Barlow, pre his injury, but that was farcical, due to the fact that all 9's do it with impunity. Mind you, I can't see that a crooked feed is any worse than a straight feed with a spin on it to put it under your hooker's feet.

In summary, if your going to police it, fantastic, but police it consistently and fairly, not just every now and again.
 

ncurd

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Think this is one for @smartcooky.

How straight is straight?

20.6.d - The scrum half must throw in the ball straight along the middle line, so that it first touches the ground immediately beyond the width of the nearer prop’s shoulders.

Once it hits the ground though sound like it's fair play what does next. I mean the way the rugby ball is thrown means trying to get it absolutely straight is bloody hard work so there must be some margin of error.
 
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YoungScud

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Straight feeds into the scrums have been a bit of a bug bear of mine for some time actually; lineout throws get policed for not being down the middle, the passing of the ball in general play gets policed for forward passing, but scrum feeds don't. I think the last time I saw a penalty for one was Tawera Kerr-Barlow, pre his injury, but that was farcical, due to the fact that all 9's do it with impunity. Mind you, I can't see that a crooked feed is any worse than a straight feed with a spin on it to put it under your hooker's feet.

In summary, if your going to police it, fantastic, but police it consistently and fairly, not just every now and again.

There is an illustration showing the SH holding the ball by the ends, thus rolling it in such a way that spin won't deviate it.
 

smartcooky

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Think this is one for @smartcooky.

How straight is straight?

20.6.d - The scrum half must throw in the ball straight along the middle line, so that it first touches the ground immediately beyond the width of the nearer prop’s shoulders.

Once it hits the ground though sound like it's fair play what does next. I mean the way the rugby ball is thrown means trying to get it absolutely straight is bloody hard work so there must be some margin of error.

The convention is that some part of the ball has to be on the centreline.




Some "back of the envelope" triginomentry tells us that the ball can be fed up to about 8° squint and still be considered straight.

[TEXTAREA]Law 20.6 (b) The scrum half must hold the ball with both hands, with its major axis parallel to the ground
and to the touchline over the middle line between the front rows, mid-way between knee
and ankle.[/TEXTAREA]

Clever scrumhalves know how to deliver the ball in such a way that it will bounce slightly towards his own side. They do this by dropping their left hand slightly on release so that the ball lands more towards the point of the ball on the left, resulting in it taking a slight bounce to the right. It takes a lot of practise to get this right and it is very difficult, if not impossibe to detect because the scrumhalf only drops his hand at the last moment before release. You can liken it to watching (at normal speed) a good blackjack dealer dealing "seconds"; no matter how closely you watch his hands you cannot see him doing it.
 

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