People that **** me off

[O'Rothlain]

Question that's always bugged me - how does any religion explain the existence of dinosaurs?

There's proof that humans and dinosaurs didn't exist at the same time, but according to the creation theory the first humans were created and put on Earth right from the start.

I've never understood the religious stance on life before mankind.
[/b]

What proof exist that humans and dinosaurs didn't co-exist? Biblically speaking the bible does mention what science would term "pre-historic" creatures:
1. Leviathan
2. Behemoth
In our Christian mythology (as well as Jewish and most world religions) we do believe in a massive worldwide flood. Just as most scientists believe in things such as ice ages and a once ancient "pangea" it is evident that the earth as we know it is very different geographically from even 6,000 years ago. I would say this has a lot to do with fossil burrial depths and the appearance of things being much "older" than they are.

But, I'm no expert...read for yourself. Don't judge the Bible on what you were told it says, or taught that it was about, read it for yourself. If you have no interest in reading it, then you have no ground to judge our beliefs.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

But, I'm no expert...read for yourself. Don't judge the Bible on what you were told it says, or taught that it was about, read it for yourself. If you have no interest in reading it, then you have no ground to judge our beliefs.
[/b]

That sums up several of the things I don't like about organised religion:

- The "you" and "us" mentality in conjures up. It may not mean to, but religion segregates people like nothing else on the planet. You seem to have assumed I'm an atheist with no evidence whatsoever. As it happens I am an atheist, but because I am not one of "you" my beliefs are apparently not valid. Which leads me nicely onto my second point...

- The staunch objection many people with religion have towards their beliefs being at all questioned. As an atheist I am constantly being told about other peoples' religions and am expected to tolerate them. Why is it that as an atheist I am not allowed to say why I think what I believe in is right?

If anyone thinks I was being "smug and patronising" then so be it, but it really grates with me that the main reply to a question I ask is to go and find out for myself. I don't own a bible and have no intention of doing so, therfore I was hoping someone could enlighten me on religious views that I have no idea about.

Unfortuntely being told about it is the only way I will ever be able to judge any religion seeing as I am not going to go out and read texts propagated by organisations whose basic principles I do not hold with.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Webby, I don't really want to open a can of worms here but you did jump into the religious debate with both feet did you not? And unless I misread the tone it was more than a wee bit patronising (perhaps my view is coloured by the brilliant Bill Hicks monologue on the topic). It just seems a bit rich crying foul that's all.

SB

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Webby, I don't really want to open a can of worms here but you did jump into the religious debate with both feet did you not? And unless I misread the tone it was more than a wee bit patronising (perhaps my view is coloured by the brilliant Bill Hicks monologue on the topic). It just seems a bit rich crying foul that's all.
[/b]

It wasn't designed to be patronising in the slightest.

I don't understand how the thoery of creation stands up to scrutiny against life which evolution has shown existed before humans, the most obvious case being dinosuars.

It was thrown out there with the idea that someone might actually provide me with the logical thinking behind it, because I have seriously never been able to get my head round it.

 

[An Tarbh]

European Court of Human Rights - why should you govern laws in England?
[/b]

Because you agreed to it when you became members of the EEC and it was ratified by your population in a referendum on whether to stay or go. Even now not even the anti European UK would vote to withdraw from the EU, otherwise they'd be f***ed.

 

[Goth Power]

Bin Laden!

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotemain'>
Webby, I don't really want to open a can of worms here but you did jump into the religious debate with both feet did you not? And unless I misread the tone it was more than a wee bit patronising (perhaps my view is coloured by the brilliant Bill Hicks monologue on the topic). It just seems a bit rich crying foul that's all.
[/b]

It wasn't designed to be patronising in the slightest.

I don't understand how the thoery of creation stands up to scrutiny against life which evolution has shown existed before humans, the most obvious case being dinosuars.

It was thrown out there with the idea that someone might actually provide me with the logical thinking behind it, because I have seriously never been able to get my head round it.
[/b][/quote]
Firstly, I ask you to read, because you obviously have 1. questions and 2. a bias against christian beliefs.

Also, I was trying to answer your question. My problem is that you assume something about my beliefs that aren't true. Since you seemingly were giving a desire to know more, I was suggesting that you read before you judge.

The scientific proof that you speak of...where is it? I can answer (and will if you want) any and all questions you have regarding my faith. Please, do read the two wikipedia articles I linked, at least then you can clearly see biblical references to dinosaurs.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Originally posted by Wikipedia
"However, critics usually point out that according to paleontology, sauropods went extinct 65 million years ago, and thus weren't around at the same time as man."

This is the bit I have problems with.

Scientists have physical evidence of when certain species existed. It has been well researched and almost proved that man was definately not around at the same time as many creatures, one example being dinosaurs.

Reading those articles makes it no clearer how the story or creation and the scientific evidence of evolution can possibly tie into one another.

I just can't get my head around the logic, the time periods do not add up.

 

[toup]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Webby, I don't really want to open a can of worms here but you did jump into the religious debate with both feet did you not? And unless I misread the tone it was more than a wee bit patronising (perhaps my view is coloured by the brilliant Bill Hicks monologue on the topic). It just seems a bit rich crying foul that's all.
[/b]

It wasn't designed to be patronising in the slightest.

I don't understand how the thoery of creation stands up to scrutiny against life which evolution has shown existed before humans, the most obvious case being dinosuars.

EDIT - sorry, was beaten to it!

It was thrown out there with the idea that someone might actually provide me with the logical thinking behind it, because I have seriously never been able to get my head round it.
[/b][/quote]
Firstly, I ask you to read, because you obviously have 1. questions and 2. a bias against christian beliefs.

Also, I was trying to answer your question. My problem is that you assume something about my beliefs that aren't true. Since you seemingly were giving a desire to know more, I was suggesting that you read before you judge.

The scientific proof that you speak of...where is it? I can answer (and will if you want) any and all questions you have regarding my faith. Please, do read the two wikipedia articles I linked, at least then you can clearly see biblical references to dinosaurs.
[/b][/quote]

In no way do I wish to insult anyone's religion, so please don;t take this the wrong way, but the creatures in those wiki references, biblically speaking, would have been alive at the same time as humans unless I am mistaken?

Modern science 'proves' that dinosaurs as we know them, and humans were not around at the same time. I would be interested (and not in a nasty, cynical way) to hear how you would deal with that particular issue?

 

[O'Rothlain]

All such evidence (to the best of my knowlege) is based on carbon-dating, which has proved to be an inacurate way of dating fossils and/or evidence.

But isn't it the least bit alarming that species dated as being non-existent in the time of man, are clearly referenced in historical text? Also, where do we get the myths and ledgends of dragons and sea serpants? Clearly the resemblance to those creatures and dinosaurs are striking?! What we have written off as ledgend and tall tales might in fact link us back to an era of coexistence between two species. Are dinosaurs extinct? yes, but we have no solid proof or theories as to why.

I respect science so long as it's truthful. But scientists are out to make a name for themselves, and often people don't hear the full extent of their research, just the implications of their research. On BBC Radio 1 yesterday they reported that break-through research just discovered a link between red meat and breast cancer, yet the leading scientist in breast cancer research were urging women not to stop eating red meat...why is that? Because the evidence isn't fully conclusive, even though the researchers would have you believe it was.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

All such evidence (to the best of my knowlege) is based on carbon-dating, which has proved to be an inacurate way of dating fossils and/or evidence.
[/b]

But it is some form of proof to support scientists' claims.

I'm sure this will prove a highly controversial comment but I feel it needs to be raised in order to have a fair debate:

Where is the evidence to show that any of the events described in the bible are true?

I am far too cynical to believe in anything without evidence.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Please see my modified post above

<div class='quotemain'>
All such evidence (to the best of my knowlege) is based on carbon-dating, which has proved to be an inacurate way of dating fossils and/or evidence.
[/b]

But it is some form of proof to support scientists' claims.

I'm sure this will prove a highly controversial comment but I feel it needs to be raised in order to have a fair debate:

Where is the evidence to show that any of the events described in the bible are true?

I am far too cynical to believe in anything without evidence.
[/b][/quote]

Give me an event (the bible documents at least 6,000 years of history)...

 

[wigan_rlfc]

Bin Laden!
[/b]

Why, what's he ever done to you?

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Please see my modified post above

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
All such evidence (to the best of my knowlege) is based on carbon-dating, which has proved to be an inacurate way of dating fossils and/or evidence.
[/b]

But it is some form of proof to support scientists' claims.

I'm sure this will prove a highly controversial comment but I feel it needs to be raised in order to have a fair debate:

Where is the evidence to show that any of the events described in the bible are true?

I am far too cynical to believe in anything without evidence.
[/b][/quote]

Give me an event (the bible documents at least 6,000 years of history)...
[/b][/quote]

I would say the story of creation but then we'll go around in circles for the rest of time (or until someone discovers something revolutionary).

It's quite a large category, but how about Jesus? What evdience is there he existed? What evidence is there for any of the supposed 'mircales' he performed? What makes him or his actions any more real than the lead character in the latest fictional novel?

And before any claims of being patronising are thrown my way, these are genuine questions.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

>>but how about Jesus? What evdience is there he existed?

Well I don't know about all the miracles and stuff but there is tonnes of documentary evidence about his existence.

SB

 

[sanzar]

<div class='quotemain'>
Creationists - There's scientific proof of evolution, all you lot have is some book and your telling us that ours is the 'contested theory'?! Please die. All of you.
[/b]

You're "scientific proof" is a pigs thigh bone lying next to a human skull. You can kindly **** off, twat.
[/b][/quote]

This wasn't a shot at you personally OR... specifically (and the last bit is what hints at this) I was referring to those who would take the theory of evolution out of schools and replace it with creationism on the grounds that evolution is 'still unproven' and creationism is not!

I'm not sure if you're one of these or not, but it does seem pretty ridiculous to try and force a whole bunch of archaic beliefs that are coloured by the historical exagerations (moderate Christians I know don't believe in the resurrection for example) improvisations (i.e. making stuff up when not knowing the actual answer) of a book written 2 thousand years ago on an entire generation without letting them hear what humanity has found evidence of through hard work and the use of scientific methods.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Well I don't know about all the miracles and stuff but there is tonnes of documentary evidence about his existence.
[/b]

Such as?

Does it actually conclusively prove anything?

Personally, I don't think I could base my way of life around a theory which is not founded in solid proof. Obviously this is only my personal opinion though.

 

[mrs cohen]

I just don't DO religion. It's just a pointless waste of time on made-up stories if you ask me!
I have better people to worhip...... like Ben

 

[sanzar]

I suppose this brings us to another point thought doesn't it?
What do creationists think of the theories coming out now that suggest that our universe is but one of an infinite number that have existed for eons? These theories are generally based in mathematics, so they're almost philosphies, but how does that make them any less valid than the word of the bible? I mean, I know I'm not capable of providing an objective opinion here cause I'm an Athiest, but the big bang and multiverse theories sound a heck of a lot more plausible than 'god made the world 6,000 years ago'...

 

[O'Rothlain]

I would say the story of creation but then we'll go around in circles for the rest of time (or until someone discovers something revolutionary).

It's quite a large category, but how about Jesus? What evdience is there he existed? What evidence is there for any of the supposed 'mircales' he performed? What makes him or his actions any more real than the lead character in the latest fictional novel?

And before any claims of being patronising are thrown my way, these are genuine questions.
[/b]

Let me first say, brilliant question, if I was in your position I'd probably assert the same thing. The best I can do is point you to works by genuine scholars and researchers as opposed to me trying to prove it. One essay is online and is quite good as it discusses this issue in response to statements/questions as you pose.

Extrabiblical, Non-Christian Witnesses to Jesus before 200 a.d.

There are further links from that page if you wish to research them.
The main point is: Jesus as a person has historical references outside of our christian documents.
While this is an excellent place to start, they key to any religion is FAITH. This is probably what differs you and I.