Players on Report / Orange Card

[TobesHodges]

Finally someone in the mainstream media has said it, Red Cards ruin games, Union needs to take leaf out of Rugby Leagues book and stop game's being ruined.



Tommy Bowe (BBC Article) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64624299

'On social media, I've read how Wayne Barnes' failure to give the French prop a red card is an example of rugby ruining itself.
I don't necessarily agree. For me, one of the best Six Nations games we've ever seen would have been ruined by Atonio's dismissal.

Yes, a red card probably would have been the right decision, but why should the whole spectacle suffer and 50,000-plus fans who shelled out more than 100 euros (£88) for a ticket be left short-changed as a result of one player's stupidity?

Look, rugby needs to sort out high tackles and concussion, but this is a spectator sport and I'm not convinced handing out red cards for these types of incidents is the way to do it.

For me, World Rugby needs to seriously consider introducing a yellow card where the player goes on report like in rugby league - an orange card, if you like - whereby the offending player is dismissed and the replacement comes on after 10 minutes.

If that had been in place on Saturday, Atonio would not have been allowed to re-enter the play but the replacement prop could have come on after 10 minutes. That way, Atonio and France would have been penalised but the game would have been kept alive as a contest.

Red cards ruin big games. Remember Sam Warburton being sent off just 18 minutes into Wales' 2011 World Cup semi-final defeat by France? We don't want a repeat of that in France this year.'

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Finally someone in the mainstream media has said it, Red Cards ruin games, Union needs to take leaf out of Rugby Leagues book and stop game's being ruined.



Tommy Bowe (BBC Article) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64624299

'On social media, I've read how Wayne Barnes' failure to give the French prop a red card is an example of rugby ruining itself.
I don't necessarily agree. For me, one of the best Six Nations games we've ever seen would have been ruined by Atonio's dismissal.

Yes, a red card probably would have been the right decision, but why should the whole spectacle suffer and 50,000-plus fans who shelled out more than 100 euros (£88) for a ticket be left short-changed as a result of one player's stupidity?

Look, rugby needs to sort out high tackles and concussion, but this is a spectator sport and I'm not convinced handing out red cards for these types of incidents is the way to do it.

For me, World Rugby needs to seriously consider introducing a yellow card where the player goes on report like in rugby league - an orange card, if you like - whereby the offending player is dismissed and the replacement comes on after 10 minutes.

If that had been in place on Saturday, Atonio would not have been allowed to re-enter the play but the replacement prop could have come on after 10 minutes. That way, Atonio and France would have been penalised but the game would have been kept alive as a contest.

Red cards ruin big games. Remember Sam Warburton being sent off just 18 minutes into Wales' 2011 World Cup semi-final defeat by France? We don't want a repeat of that in France this year.'

If players think red cards ruin games then they need to stop giving away red card offences, simple as that.

Antonio made no attempt to dip at all, none. I think he should have been red carded. I don't care if the fans don't enjoy it to some extent because Antonio didn't dip and smashed someone's head who then had to go off.

I'd also add that not every game is ruined when a red card is given. Sometimes it really makes the game.

 

[ncurd]

If players think red cards ruin games then they need to stop giving away red card offences, simple as that.

Antonio made no attempt to dip at all, none. I think he should have been red carded. I don't care if the fans don't enjoy it to some extent because Antonio didn't dip and smashed someone's head who then had to go off.

I'd also add that not every game is ruined when a red card is given. Sometimes it really makes the game.

Yeah I was disappointed it would ruin the game an Antonio did what he did but it was definitely a red card offence. I wish he actually dipped and player would stop with these reckless challenges.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Herring didn't play the rest of the game... 20 mins down a man and then bringing a fresh player on is hardly a disadvantage at all for an illegal shot that took a guy out of the game.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

"If something that didn't happen would have happened it would have been the worst thing ever that ever happened and i know that ozzies will eat this **** up and anoint me their whinging king"

 

[TobesHodges]

If players think red cards ruin games then they need to stop giving away red card offences, simple as that.

Antonio made no attempt to dip at all, none. I think he should have been red carded. I don't care if the fans don't enjoy it to some extent because Antonio didn't dip and smashed someone's head who then had to go off.

I'd also add that not every game is ruined when a red card is given. Sometimes it really makes the game.

You've completely moved the point in the first sentence, Spectators think red cards ruin games.

The whole article is form a spectators stand point not a players, Tommy Bowe is now a spectator.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I wouldn't mind an orange card but think it should only be used in a case of red with mitigation (ie it goes down to orange rather than yellow).

I think though the fact we are still seeing so many high tackles, despite the severity of the punishment, shows that it isn't working. At some point WR may simply have to recognise that high tackles will always happen and that red cards as a disincentive cannot achieve any more to reduce them.

 

[Which Tyler]

I wouldn't mind an orange card but think it should only be used in a case of red with mitigation (ie it goes down to orange rather than yellow).

I think though the fact we are still seeing so many high tackles, despite the severity of the punishment, shows that it isn't working. At some point WR may simply have to recognise that high tackles will always happen and that red cards as a disincentive cannot achieve any more to reduce them.

Pretty sure that's why they want to lower the tackle height further

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Pretty sure that's why they want to lower the tackle height further

I don't think it will work. The threat of a red card is already there for head contact yet it still happens. I think lowering the tackle height at this stage will just increase red cards and not lower the height of tackles. The disincentive to go high is already there yet players still do it. Say the height is lowered to armpits, any player running into contact can duck down and that would require the defending player to almost fold in half to get low enough for risk of a red if they hit the chest. I imagine you'd just see even more reds and relatively little change in the tackle height, high contact would likely happen just as much.

It's like you see with crime, people think if you keep ramping up the severity of punishment for committing crimes, the crime rate will drop. It doesn't happen like that. The biggest disincentive is already there so I'd say the level we are at now is likely where it will stay. It's already at maximum risk, minimal reward.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I think though the fact we are still seeing so many high tackles, despite the severity of the punishment, shows that it isn't working. At some point WR may simply have to recognise that high tackles will always happen and that red cards as a disincentive cannot achieve any more to reduce them.

Exactly this; it's *never going to be possible* to reduce head contacts to zero. Some players are just dopey, tackles are mistimed, ball carriers accelerate at the last minute, ball carriers change direction.

Maybe there is scope for an orange card, but I'd like to see trials of how long the 'man off' penalty should be. Maybe 20 minutes, to make it more severe than a yellow?

Murder; rape; drink-driving. All illegal, all have quite severe sanctions and yet...

 

[Which Tyler]

It's also never going to be possible to reduce road fatalities to zero.
And yet, we still have seatbelts, head restraints, air bags, crumple zones, lateral reinforcements, and increasingly a front-end designed to allow a potential pedestrian to more role than slam, and with some room for give before the engine.

It's not going to be possible to eliminate risk.

That's no excuse for not trying to mitigate.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's also never going to be possible to reduce road fatalities to zero.
And yet, we still have seatbelts, head restraints, air bags, crumple zones, lateral reinforcements, and increasingly a front-end designed to allow a potential pedestrian to more role than slam, and with some room for give before the engine.

It's not going to be possible to eliminate risk.

That's no excuse for not trying to mitigate.

But mitigation has it's limits, do we demand everyone drive at 10mph max?

 

[Which Tyler]

No.
And no-ones suggesting anything remotely equivalent - as well you know

 

[Crash Hamster]

As the only way to prevent rugby injuries is to ban rugby, I think it's really important that the decision isn't left in the hands of absolutists.

This then means a discussion about what degree of damage is acceptable, followed by what steps could be taken to achieve this.

Personally, I suspect that speeding the game up would give the best results. Make the fat lads run around more; momentum is mass x velocity, so reducing the mass reduces the impact. I doubt that forwards would get quicker, just as quick for longer.

 

[Which Tyler]

There's none so blind as will not see

 

[Crash Hamster]

There's none so blind as will not see

We're violently agreeing again...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The thing is Antonio didn't dip at all. So he made no attempt to actually make a proper tackle. He had time to.

So are the sanctions not enough? Or is it his technique or his fitness etc. but whatever we've all talked about above regarding current and future iterations of the laws or sanctions he was never going to make a legal tackle smashing into some fully upright.

How can we properly stop that? Maybe 6 month bans? As 4 weeks isn't enough really.

 

[Saintjay]

Are the RFU, WRU , French clubs, Prem etc really going to sign up for 6 months bans whilst paying players.

For me it's what level of risk is acceptable and what can be done to get it to that level. You could simply make everyone tackle below the navel but they are not and I'm sure there are reasons why.

 

[TobesHodges]

Another game ruined by a Red card, imagine paying all that money and the games ruined in 6 minutes..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Another game ruined by a Red card, imagine paying all that money and the games ruined in 6 minutes..

Which game?