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pool of death?

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paco1

Guest
From an Irish point though, we are agreed on one thing. D'Arcy is better .................. far better.................. then Toeava.
[/b]


Well, my friend, you made a point here. The "my team is better than yours" argument doesn´t make any sense. If Argentina beats Irealand or if Ireland beats Argentina, it won´t be by 50 points, that´s for sure. So lets wait and see. I just wanted to say that many words were spent to say that Ireland is better than Pumas, and if the pride, passion and humble quality of our boys proove otherwise, it will be very difficult to swallow those words. Cheers.

P.S.: DC, let´s not go back to old arguments. If wales perform better in this RWC it will be because they are not in the so called groip of death
 
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DC

Guest
P.S.: DC, let´s not go back to old arguments. If wales perform better in this RWC it will be because they are not in the so called groip of death[/b]

I agree!!

But what i mean is if you put the full strength Welsh squad against the full strength Argentinian squad i'd imagine it would be a very very close match.
 
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DonBilly

Guest
P.S.: DC, let´s not go back to old arguments. If wales perform better in this RWC it will be because they are not in the so called groip of death[/b]

I agree!!

But what i mean is if you put the full strength Welsh squad against the full strength Argentinian squad i'd imagine it would be a very very close match.
[/b]

Well the point is that Wales lack depth and it is difficult to get the full strength team due to the frequency of injuries in nowadays Rugby. Argentina have more depth especially for the forwards.

I can see some adavantage for Wales if the weather consitions are pretty dry and favour the running Rugby in the opposite conditions the Pumas pack should dominate and I fail to see how Wales could win.
 
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shtove

Guest
Yeah, I'd go for Argentina over Wales every time. It's all about punishment through the pack - once you're ruthless there then Wales have no chance.
 
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Karmabass

Guest
Again Argies could miss out on the quarters as a result of not being in the 6N or 3N. This really must be addressed before 2011.
[/b]

I'm assuming this would mean they would be seeded differently, and thus placed in a pool they are more likely to qualify from. I.e. Pool C!!
 
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Marco Polo

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
Again Argies could miss out on the quarters as a result of not being in the 6N or 3N. This really must be addressed before 2011.
[/b]

I'm assuming this would mean they would be seeded differently, and thus placed in a pool they are more likely to qualify from. I.e. Pool C!! [/b][/quote]



I believe that it is already been confirmed that the seeding system will be changed for 2011 to take some account of the world rankings.
 
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ninebarmaximus

Guest
Ireland will get through, we will really struggle in the pool stages then pull out a stormer in the quarter final
 
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vince000

Guest
Really hard to say, France, Ireland and Argentina have all the opportunity to achieve the top. I would say Ireland, then France, and third Argentina.
I hope France can take the first place, but Ireland has a so good team this past 2 years, only thing for them is to avoid the losses at the last moment :eek:
 
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Buceph

Guest
Ireland will get through, we will really struggle in the pool stages then pull out a stormer in the quarter final
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Against NZ? Not a chance. And I have huge doubts about us beating France on French turf. I've a great fear that my hatred of EOS will be fully justified come October.
 
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shazbooger

Guest
I have huge doubts about us beating France on French turf. [/b]
Agreed. As someone already mentioned on this forum, we havent beaten France in France for 6 ish years. Supposedly the best Irish team to grace a rugby field and we still cant pull out the tough results. A lot of clsoe calls, and a few near misses but thats typically Irish. This is pretty much our last chance, but nothing in recent history can justify any optimism from an Irish fan.

I've a great fear that my hatred of EOS will be fully justified come October. [/b]
O'Sullivan is the most successful coach in Irish rugby history. your hatred cant be based on any logic rugby based arguement, and can be justified by results on the field.
 
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stevemagoo

Guest
well lads, do u reckon Ireland can top this group [/b]



Honestly.....No.

After the performance at the weekend, i'll be over the moon if we just get out of the group.



Maybe EOS is employing a masterful piece of tactics, and has a completely seperate set of lineout calls, backline moves, defensive alignments, scrummaging systems for warmup games as he does for the WC.



Maybe his team talk for the scottish game was not to play 100%, get totally dominated and capitulate...it's all a huge ruse to lure the other teams into a false sense of security!



Ho ho - he's a wily one..
 
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el_tk

Guest
O'Sullivan is the most successful coach in Irish rugby history. your hatred cant be based on any logic rugby based arguement, and can be justified by results on the field.
[/b]

EOS has had by common consensus the best ever group of players that have played together for Ireland. In a period of 4 years when England have been a mere shadow of their former selves and France also in decline in the 6N, the only worthwhile performance yardstick he has delivered a mere 2 Triple Crowns.
He has wasted opportunities to develop the squad leaving the team paper thin in places and utterly screwed if injuries occur aswell as having few subs to bring on who can change a game.
Also to the best of my recollection he is yet to lead Ireland to a summer tour victory over a 3N side and has blown 3 fantastic opportunities to finally beat the ABs meaning it is likely Ireland will go into a RWC QF with a huge mental problem as they are playing a team none of them has ever beaten.

And he picked Jeremy Staunton at outhalf.
 
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shtove

Guest
<div class='quotemain'> O'Sullivan is the most successful coach in Irish rugby history. your hatred cant be based on any logic rugby based arguement, and can be justified by results on the field.
[/b]

EOS has had by common consensus the best ever group of players that have played together for Ireland. In a period of 4 years when England have been a mere shadow of their former selves and France also in decline in the 6N, the only worthwhile performance yardstick he has delivered a mere 2 Triple Crowns.
He has wasted opportunities to develop the squad leaving the team paper thin in places and utterly screwed if injuries occur aswell as having few subs to bring on who can change a game.
Also to the best of my recollection he is yet to lead Ireland to a summer tour victory over a 3N side and has blown 3 fantastic opportunities to finally beat the ABs meaning it is likely Ireland will go into a RWC QF with a huge mental problem as they are playing a team none of them has ever beaten.

And he picked Jeremy Staunton at outhalf.
[/b][/quote]

Well, EOS deserves crit + praise.

Do you criticise or praise him for the French match at Croker? And does anyone really believe that we could match France or the ABs with depth in the squad? At halfback, other players should have been given more of a go. But what possible solution is there for the front row?

On the praise side, he beat three SH teams back to back last November. SA was a good result - and NOT against a 2nd team. But Aus was awesome - that opposition was slightly better on paper than the team that beat the ABs a month ago. And he mullered England, although I can't see that happening again in the next few weeks.

So, two thoughts: we have a 22 man squad + they peaked last Autumn and may be timed to do the same this Autumn. That could be enough for a semi place.

We have some dark days ahead, but that Aus win might just draw the players into the light. Come to Papa!
 
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Marco Polo

Guest
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> O'Sullivan is the most successful coach in Irish rugby history. your hatred cant be based on any logic rugby based arguement, and can be justified by results on the field.
[/b]

EOS has had by common consensus the best ever group of players that have played together for Ireland. In a period of 4 years when England have been a mere shadow of their former selves and France also in decline in the 6N, the only worthwhile performance yardstick he has delivered a mere 2 Triple Crowns.
He has wasted opportunities to develop the squad leaving the team paper thin in places and utterly screwed if injuries occur aswell as having few subs to bring on who can change a game.
Also to the best of my recollection he is yet to lead Ireland to a summer tour victory over a 3N side and has blown 3 fantastic opportunities to finally beat the ABs meaning it is likely Ireland will go into a RWC QF with a huge mental problem as they are playing a team none of them has ever beaten.

And he picked Jeremy Staunton at outhalf.
[/b][/quote]

Well, EOS deserves crit + praise.

Do you criticise or praise him for the French match at Croker? And does anyone really believe that we could match France or the ABs with depth in the squad? At halfback, other players should have been given more of a go. But what possible solution is there for the front row?

On the praise side, he beat three SH teams back to back last November. SA was a good result - and NOT against a 2nd team. But Aus was awesome - that opposition was slightly better on paper than the team that beat the ABs a month ago. And he mullered England, although I can't see that happening again in the next few weeks.

So, two thoughts: we have a 22 man squad + they peaked last Autumn and may be timed to do the same this Autumn. That could be enough for a semi place.

We have some dark days ahead, but that Aus win might just draw the players into the light. Come to Papa! [/b][/quote]



Totally agree with you on this. Now EOS has his flaws, but how is he supposed to produce International class backup players to the first team when they are clearly not there at provincial level. Some of the players in the squad they are unproven at the top HEC level let alone at international level.

The provinces have not produced enough top quality players for these positions to provide adequate cover for the international first XV. As we have a relatively small playing population this is something we have to live with, it should not be used as a stick to beat the coach with.

While I will be the first to admit that he has not rotated as much as he could have, the suggestion of some people that that all EOS had to do was give these players game time and they would have magically turned into international class backup, simply by playing a few extra test matches is quite frankly absurd. Clearly looking at the last three tests alot of them are just not good enough.
 
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pkar

Guest
Yeah this is the strongest pool for sure. I think that France will get through without big problems. But it would be heavy battle between Argentina and Ireland.
 
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davidskrela

Guest
I don't think it is the most dangerous pool but I'm French so I hope the France win the WC!

:bravo:
 
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shazbooger

Guest
EOS has had by common consensus the best ever group of players that have played together for Ireland. In a period of 4 years when England have been a mere shadow of their former selves and France also in decline in the 6N, the only worthwhile performance yardstick he has delivered a mere 2 Triple Crowns.[/b]
Jesus you would swear that Ireland had a glorious history of previous World Cup wins and numerous Grand Slams. You need to remember that historically, weve been absolutely shite at rugby. Warren Gatland had a similar playing pool to O'Sullivan and got absolutely nowhere.

He has wasted opportunities to develop the squad leaving the team paper thin in places and utterly screwed if injuries occur aswell as having few subs to bring on who can change a game.[/b]
We have cover in pretty much every area apart from 1, 3 and 10. The talent isnt there to fill those positions. I agree were critically short on cover in those areas but I dont think its fair to blame Eddie for those shortages, he can only play whats presented to him. As for impact subs, I would have thought that Geordan Murphy, N Best, O'Kelly, Trimble and Flannery were pretty handy impact players to bring off the bench.

Also to the best of my recollection he is yet to lead Ireland to a summer tour victory over a 3N side and has blown 3 fantastic opportunities to finally beat the ABs[/b]
First of all, he's not judged on the Development Tours. The only one he brought a full squad too was NZ and I thought they were fairly close on two occasions and could well have won. The team was ready, they were in place, they lost it on the pitch.

They one area I fully agree with you on is the mental side of the squad. Its our biggest problem and it hasnt been addressed in a way that any of us would have liked. It would be foolish to ignore, as results show, we tend to buckle under pressure, not thrive on it. When the pressure is on we lose (France last year), when we have no pressure at all we play better then ever (e.g. Italy last year, 2nd half of France two years ago). It only seems to be when were free from expectation that we play at our absolute best. At this late stage, I dont see any of this changing, and it is my biggest worry.

He has without doubt made mistakes and will probably make more, but he aint no Andy Robinson.
 
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superjb64

Guest
Hi. I think it'is the most difficult pool of this world cup. I don't unterstand why 3 of the 8 best nation in rugby play in the same pool.. it is one problem of the new system because if there are 5 pool of 4 nation the problem don't exist.
What do you prefer this system or the old system?
 
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