RaboDirect Pro12 Round 5

[Draggs]

Bonus point blown by the Ospreys. Apart from a 10min spell after the Ospreys penalty try, Munster were well beaten, but the Ospreys made a few too many mistakes to fully capitalize.

Still, much more like it from the home side, more like the Ospreys of the knockout stages of the Pro12 last season. Hopefully means they can perform at a similar level in the HC.

The Ospreys have to make you hate them before you like them.
Good composure from Biggar from what I've seen/heard. Surely he has proven himself worthy of a start in November?
Great to see Adam back. The mere sight of the man puts a smile on my face.

 

[dullonien]

The Ospreys have to make you hate them before you like them.
Good composure from Biggar from what I've seen/heard. Surely he has proven himself worthy of a start in November?
Great to see Adam back. The mere sight of the man puts a smile on my face.

Haha, too true.

I'd say that was Biggars best performance for a number of years. Apart from one missed kick, his place kicking was faultless, he found long touch finders from penalties and he distributed well to those outside him. He also made a couple of clean breaks, which has been missing from his game for a long time, possibly should have passed to Tipuric/had the vision to see Dirksen on the outside after his second break, but at least he didn't throw a silly offload ala Tom James.

I'm still not completely sure he's the man to direct Wales at 10, but I'm not sure who is tbh.

Edit. After watching the highlights of the Scarlets match, they basically handed that win to Treviso on a plate. Two charged down kicks leading to Treviso try's. Not totally sure about the final penalty tbh, could just as easily have gone to the Scarlets for not releasing the ball. That loss will hurt.

 

[SelimNiai]

I think he's ahead of Corporal Kickitaway (Preistland) but we're in a point where we have 2 or 3 potentials all of whom have flaws. I've mentioned Preistlands, Biggar tries too much sometimes and loses connection to his brain and Tovey, who I assume is 3rd in line, is too raw and untried at Senior level

 

[Draggs]

Well, we have to do something, if Biggar is able to keep it up, then at least give him a start against Samoa (with a good pack, none of that Fiji 2010 shite).

The last penalty was debatable, but when it comes down to it, the Turks were bullied off the park and blew what should have been a commanding lead. They were absolutely demolished by Treviso's rolling mauls.

 

[dullonien]

The last penalty was debatable, but when it comes down to it, the Turks were bullied off the park and blew what should have been a commanding lead. They were absolutely demolished by Treviso's rolling mauls.

Fair enough, didn't get that from the quick highlights. They really need to learn how to deal with mauls, they've been poor at defending them for a long time now.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Quite an impressive display in places today. Slowly but surely building. Now Adam's back, surely we're one step away from being next to unstoppable. Hopefully everything's in place come October and the trip to Welford Road.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Ugh, that was a bit rough. Fair play to Connacht, they looked pretty good, but here's my 2 cents on why we just got humbled by the whesties:

1) Defensive frailty: Connacht's first three tries were so so soft. McSharry was essentially just allowed walk in from 5 meters. I know Reid was just on and there was probably a bit of confusion in the midfield, but that is unacceptable at any level. No one tracking their man. Fionn Carr's attempted tackle for the third one was pathetic. Ship the lad out of here, he's not anywhere near good enough for Leinster.

2) The midfield. Bad bad bad. Losing D'arcy early on was a massive blow, because Noel Reid is unspeakably shite. Always takes far too much out of the ball and does a very impressive imitation of a headless chicken. Macken was very poor tonight too. Our back line was inept all the way through and considering that we were holding our own up front, it was here that the game was lost.

3) A lack of hard runners. Losing Kearney was a blow. Auva'a has been poor this season and continues to be so. Without Healy, O'Brien, Healsip and co. we really struggled to get over the gain line tonight. Connacht, by comparison, broke through our line with relative ease.

If you want a good laugh player cam Noel Reid next time he plays and watch him try to hit rucks. It's 1 of the most unconvincing things I've seen on a rugby pitch.

 

[Peat]

I think he's ahead of Corporal Kickitaway (Preistland) but we're in a point where we have 2 or 3 potentials all of whom have flaws. I've mentioned Preistlands, Biggar tries too much sometimes and loses connection to his brain and Tovey, who I assume is 3rd in line, is too raw and untried at Senior level

Tovey may have been, but if he's in a state to play again this calender year after going over on his ankle on Friday, I'll be surprised.

Still can't quite believe how quickly Priestland became good, and then shat again.

 

[psychic duck]

Well, we have to do something, if Biggar is able to keep it up, then at least give him a start against Samoa (with a good pack, none of that Fiji 2010 shite).

In that Fiji 2010 match, Adam Jones was obliterating Campese Ma'afu, but somehow Jonathan Thomas + Ryan Jones had shockers in the back row despite the easiest front foot platform provided. Huw Bennett was also a problem that match.

By the way talking of scrums, is Stephen Archer related to Scott Andrews?

I think he's ahead of Corporal Kickitaway (Preistland) but we're in a point where we have 2 or 3 potentials all of whom have flaws. I've mentioned Preistlands, Biggar tries too much sometimes and loses connection to his brain and Tovey, who I assume is 3rd in line, is too raw and untried at Senior level

So does 3 seasons as Dragons first choice fly half, and 1 as first choice full back only a junior level?

Haha, too true.

I'd say that was Biggars best performance for a number of years. Apart from one missed kick, his place kicking was faultless, he found long touch finders from penalties and he distributed well to those outside him. He also made a couple of clean breaks, which has been missing from his game for a long time, possibly should have passed to Tipuric/had the vision to see Dirksen on the outside after his second break, but at least he didn't throw a silly offload ala Tom James.

I'm still not completely sure he's the man to direct Wales at 10, but I'm not sure who is tbh.

Tipuric would have never scored that had he got the pass, Biggar made the right call not to pass as on other occasions during the match the ball had been dropped by forwards after offloads.

The Ospreys have to make you hate them before you like them.
Good composure from Biggar from what I've seen/heard. Surely he has proven himself worthy of a start in November?
Great to see Adam back. The mere sight of the man puts a smile on my face.

Yes, strange they can get back to this performance. It was only a couple of weeks ago there was that disaster against Glasgow, arguably the worst Ospreys home performance I've seen.

As you say, great to see the Hair Bear back. 4 more years of this standard of play and he could become a Welsh legend. I wonder whether they could make an Adam Jones statue outside the Liberty Stadium? The football team there has statues to it's greats, so why not Shane and Adam?

Bonus point blown by the Ospreys. Apart from a 10min spell after the Ospreys penalty try, Munster were well beaten, but the Ospreys made a few too many mistakes to fully capitalize.

Still, much more like it from the home side, more like the Ospreys of the knockout stages of the Pro12 last season. Hopefully means they can perform at a similar level in the HC.

I was watching at the ground and Jonathan Thomas was so greedy close to the line, ran inside with an overlap, Biggar was shouting at him. Bearman on the contrary is a player I like much better than that waste of promise of JT, he's not greedy and although not the best player in the world can make the most of his abilities and work hard. Jonathan Thomas is gradually becoming a Cai Griffiths like figure to me.

The Ospreys will need to be a lot more clinical against Toulouse and Leicester in the Heineken Cup, and stop forwards getting white line fever when 10 metres out from the line.

 

[dullonien]

Tipuric would have never scored that had he got the pass, Biggar made the right call not to pass as on other occasions during the match the ball had been dropped by forwards after offloads.

Not saying Tips could have scored, he seemed quite well covered. Holding onto the ball was probably the correct thing from Biggar on that occasion. He was unlucky to lose the ball after his first break due to a good tackle by a Muster forward, I think he was getting ready to pass, can't blame him too much there either. All in all his best performance in recent years as I said.

I was watching at the ground and Jonathan Thomas was so greedy close to the line, ran inside with an overlap, Biggar was shouting at him. Bearman on the contrary is a player I like much better than that waste of promise of JT, he's not greedy and although not the best player in the world can make the most of his abilities and work hard. Jonathan Thomas is gradually becoming a Cai Griffiths like figure to me.

The Ospreys will need to be a lot more clinical against Toulouse and Leicester in the Heineken Cup, and stop forwards getting white line fever when 10 metres out from the line.

I really dislike Jon Thomas. He made a decent blindside for a couple of years, but he's now a very ordinary player indeed. I also saw him cut back inside when there was something like a 3 man overlap out wide, poor play. I think Bearman is playing well at the moment, and the backrow as a unit is complimenting each other. Stowers is still extremely disappointing too, so there's very little depth in the backrow for the O's at the moment, especially with King injured.

Isaacs was once again total garbage on the wing. I honestly haven't seen anything in him to suggest he'll be at all decent at this level, even in his preferred center position (where he's much too small by today's standards). At one point in today's match, he tripped over his own legs and threw the ball forwards into a Munster players arms when he attempted to counter, extremely poor. Although he's not had much chance with ball in hand yet, I think Grabham looks like a better prospect. But ultimately, why aren't the Ospreys playing Ross Jones at fullback and shifting Fussell to the wing where he's best (although showed today that he possibly lacks the out and out pace of a top winger)? Fussell once again showed that he is an elusive runner that creates things for the O's, but his general fullback play isn't quite up to standard. I thought that Ross Jones had a good cameo when Fussell was getting treatment for a cut. He's a natural fullback and it shows with his positioning in comparison to Fussell.

The main thing is to include the best choice players in the back three from the start, and for me that's Dirksen, Fussell and Ross Jones with Grabham on the bench. Isaacs is nowhere near HC standard, and the O's management need to realize that now.

The Ospreys have the making of a very good first choice team, but are lacking depth in a number of positions at the moment. They have decent cover in the front-row and at 9 (when Webb isn't being a petulant brat), but other than that there really is very little quality to come on off the bench, or to come in when injuries occur. Gough is past it in the second-row, JT and Stowers are offering very little impact from the bench, Matthew Morgan is going backwards, and it seems that Isaacs is the only cover for numbers 11-14 (a very young and inexperienced Grabham on the wing as well). Ross Jones is a good prospect as well, but as I said, I think he should be starting anyway.

 

[SelimNiai]

So does 3 seasons as Dragons first choice fly half, and 1 as first choice full back only a junior level?

I meant internationally

 

[Draggs]

Four years? Adam is already a legend.
He is, without a doubt, our most important international. If he plays then I immediately feel we have a chance. Look at our scrums when he does play, and when he doesn't.

For Fiji, this was our pack:
Paul James- Good loosehead
Huw Bennett- In terrible form
Adam Jones- A god
Ian Gough- A good player in his day, but passed it
Deiniol Jones- Arguably never an international
Ryan Jones- Terribly off form
Dan Lydiate- Out of position on the openside, great performance though
Jonathan Thomas- Out of position, hasn't been in form since 2008

 

[psychic duck]

I really dislike Jon Thomas. He made a decent blindside for a couple of years, but he's now a very ordinary player indeed. I also saw him cut back inside when there was something like a 3 man overlap out wide, poor play. I think Bearman is playing well at the moment, and the backrow as a unit is complimenting each other. Stowers is still extremely disappointing too, so there's very little depth in the backrow for the O's at the moment, especially with King injured.

Agree entirely.

I wish the Ospreys had shipped him off to Perpignan to join Hook when we could have done to be honest, or the Scarlets Fever rumours were true too, but no team in their right mind would go near him now. His performances have gone from promising youngster with great potential (see New Zealand 2003), to average player who didn't meet his full potential but was okay at club level but without standing out, and now these last couple of years to a simply awful player even at Ospreys level. I believe he's getting worse and worse.

Bearman and King > JT, Stowers and Smith

They better not renew Stowers' contract at the end of the season, he's lazy and ineffective, plus I bet he's eating into the salary cap.

Isaacs was once again total garbage on the wing. I honestly haven't seen anything in him to suggest he'll be at all decent at this level, even in his preferred center position (where he's much too small by today's standards). At one point in today's match, he tripped over his own legs and threw the ball forwards into a Munster players arms when he attempted to counter, extremely poor. Although he's not had much chance with ball in hand yet, I think Grabham looks like a better prospect. But ultimately, why aren't the Ospreys playing Ross Jones at fullback and shifting Fussell to the wing where he's best (although showed today that he possibly lacks the out and out pace of a top winger)? Fussell once again showed that he is an elusive runner that creates things for the O's, but his general fullback play isn't quite up to standard. I thought that Ross Jones had a good cameo when Fussell was getting treatment for a cut. He's a natural fullback and it shows with his positioning in comparison to Fussell.

The main thing is to include the best choice players in the back three from the start, and for me that's Dirksen, Fussell and Ross Jones with Grabham on the bench. Isaacs is nowhere near HC standard, and the O's management need to realize that now.

The Ospreys have the making of a very good first choice team, but are lacking depth in a number of positions at the moment. They have decent cover in the front-row and at 9 (when Webb isn't being a petulant brat), but other than that there really is very little quality to come on off the bench, or to come in when injuries occur. Gough is past it in the second-row, JT and Stowers are offering very little impact from the bench, Matthew Morgan is going backwards, and it seems that Isaacs is the only cover for numbers 11-14 (a very young and inexperienced Grabham on the wing as well). Ross Jones is a good prospect as well, but as I said, I think he should be starting anyway.

The most stupid thing is the wingers the Ospreys have let go. Aled Brew, Tom Prydie and even Richard Mustoe would walk into the side above Tom Isaacs for sure. Isaacs didn't do anything yesterday other than drop the ball. I think Tandy for some reason rates Isaacs, it's ever since he got in charge he has come into the side. I also have no idea why a winger/full back wasn't signed, when there is much need of one.

I know the Ospreys aren't the richest at the moment, but there are a number of cheap wingers who could have been signed to strengthen this area. Bringing back Mustoe for example might not cost that much considering the game time he gets at Cardiff, one of Sinoti or Venditti were available from the disbanded Aironi. Or they could have got in touch with Kingsley Jones and signed Vladmir Ostroushko of Russia, he's in my opinion easily the best winger from Tier 2 nations not already with a European club.

See his try against Spain.


With the players that are in the squad though, I agree with you that 11. Fussell, 14. Dirksen, 15. Jones would be the best option.

Four years? Adam is already a legend.
He is, without a doubt, our most important international. If he plays then I immediately feel we have a chance. Look at our scrums when he does play, and when he doesn't.

If he did nothing for the rest of his career? Would you still think he is a legend?

He is already one of Wales' greatest props, but I believe he has more quite a bit more yet to offer in the coming years, and to become a Welsh rugby legend along the likes of Gareth Edwards, Barry John and Shane Williams I think he has to keep going at this level for another 4 years.

 

[Draggs]

I liked Denis Simplikevich, big and fast.
Adam is fantastic, and can get even better. Barry John is a bad example, by the way, retired at 27

Stowers is rubbish, I had heard a hopeful rumour before the season that he wasn't going to return... Shame. The Ospreys released other young eights, Ben Thomas and Rory Pitman. Thomas wasn't bad for the U20s last year.

 

[psychic duck]

I liked Denis Simplikevich, big and fast.

Yes, he's good too. He had an offer from Wasps, but turned it down to stay in Russia.

Between Aretmyev, Ostroushko and Simplikevich, Russia have a great varied attack in their back three, and surely the best of any Tier 2 nation. Ostroushko and Simplikevich (Artemyev didn't play this year) have been outstanding in a poor Russian side this year. Both are good enough for a top European club.

 

[Draggs]

Yes, he's good too. He had an offer from Wasps, but turned it down to stay in Russia.

Between Aretmyev, Ostroushko and Simplikevich, Russia have a great varied attack in their back three, and surely the best of any Tier 2 nation. Ostroushko and Simplikevich (Artemyev didn't play this year) have been outstanding in a poor Russian side this year. Both are good enough for a top European club.

Really? I wonder why that is. (London Wasps, yeah, OK...)
I was genuinely perplexed when Thomas announced his decision to stay at the Liberty.

Not sure what to say after that Blues performance. They need a pack, that is one. Bourrust has already shown more than Andrews, Filise. Tom James is a wonderfully gifted athlete, but not a bright chap on the field it seems. Top three inches, to use a tired cliché. Warburton still isn't operating anywhere near 100%, once Paterson returns, Sam will need a rest. Give Navidi a shot on the openside, or perhaps Ellis Jenkins/Thomas Young.

Rather O/T, but anybody see the latest results from Neath? Smashed by the mighty Cross Keys and now by poor, snubbed Valleys Rugby/Pontypridd/Ole ole ole.

 

[Peat]

I've seen plenty worse players than Tom James. Yes, you're aware of his limitations, but it was nowhere near his fault we beat your or even humped you.

To be honest, I think people could afford to ease up on the Cardiff self-flagellation front, and how this result shows everything is wrong. Lads, you got caught out by a good side with all the motivation in the world right then - on a day where most of the 50-50 stuff worked and you got a few unlucky bounces of the ball. Who thinks we'd be having this conversation if Warburton had dotted that ball down for a try early on? They've still won more than they lost and fifth in the table with about a quarter of the season done. That's not the mark of an appalling team. Maybe this will turn into the floodgates through which the entire season crashed down on your head, and clearly it's not all roses, but right now it looks more like you had an appalling game and were forced to play badly rather than Cardiff have an appalling team.

 

[Draggs]

I agree Peat, I am not blaming him wholly for the loss.
From the matches I have seen this season, Tom James has messed up numerous possible tries.
The Blues, like us and the Scarlets, don't have a tight five. Add that they lack experience in the half backs and you are asking for trouble.

 

[psychic duck]

Damien Varley is a twat, this adds to the history of dirty play he has done against Welsh sides.

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Bx5BEDGrW7M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

 

[Darwin]

Damien Varley is a twat, this adds to the history of dirty play he has done against Welsh sides.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e7AFKjjYXws" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Bx5BEDGrW7M" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Took me a while to work out exactly where Varley was and what he did in that top video, as there was a ridiculous amount of off the ball play going on!

- Someone is giving Phillips a nice wee hug on the ground to stop him getting up
- Varley (I assume he is the red 2?) gives Phillips a friendly hand in the face
- Purple 16 is giving red 8 a nice neck/throat massage
- Purple 19 gives red 8 a friendly punch in the face
- Red 8 retaliates and gives purple 19 a friendly face punch in return

In the background the remaining 2-3 players look like they are trying to play rugby