Return of the Heineken Cup

Discussion in 'European Champions & Challenge Cup' started by noah_jo, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    ..and that is why I don't like it in its current format, and why I cannot be bothered watching it or even trying to get interested in it.

    The RCC purports to be a true European Club Rugby Championship, but it simply is no such thing and it won't be so long as teams are disadvantaged in qualification merely because they choose to participate in a cross borders league. A true European Club Championship will have representative teams from the best each club in each country not in each league.

    I hear arguments about fairness. Under the old Heineken Cup system a team like Glasgow could finish 10th, but because they are the best placed Scottish side they would qualify while Welsh or Irish teams that finished ahead of them might not. This is not fair on the teams that finished ahead of them, right? What about if they won the Challenge Cup in, say 2019 (which would qualify them for the 2020 RCC) and then finished 14th and last in the 2020 Pro14, how the frakking hell is this fair for the other teams that finished ahead of them?

    If you want fairness then keep it simple. The best way would be to allocate a number of teams to each league based on the size of the league. Go back to 24 teams and allocate eight teams to each league, and then you leave it up to the organisers of each league to decide how they allocate their eight teams.
     
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  3. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    No everyone doesn't have an equal chance of qualifying, English and French sides only have to be better than half of the top flight teams in their country who play in the same structure and have the same opportunities to make profits and turn it into success. The Pro14 sides have to be better than at least 5 teams from other countries with different structures that lead to unequal starting positions (The provinces have an obvious advantage due to structure and money - Ulster's worse season in recent history was enough for them to scrape ahead of Treviso.) It's a European competition, it should absolutely be done by country, like Football, Basketball and probably a plethora of other sports.

    It is clearly a power play by the LNR and PRL against Unions but they* are too stupid to realise that they're putting money in the pockets of a union that is running near to it's capacity, can't offer much in terms of growth, and is only harming them by beating them in the IRFU and taking money away from the union that has the most chance of growth which will aid them in the FIR. We clearly don't agree anyway, I reckon it's cultural more than anything and there's no more left to say!


    *Well the PRL anyway because I doubt the LNR care too much, they don't need Europe.
     
  4. noah_jo

    noah_jo Senior Member

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    Just a question for you all cause I'm confused.

    Heilderberger RK aren't allowed to compete in the challenge cup because they are owned by the same guy as Stade Francais. But the unions all own Irish, Welsh and Sottish Clubs. So surely they shouldn't be allowed to compete under the rules?
     
  5. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    I thought the same thing. Either there's some technical legal justification or they're just massive hypocrites.
     
  6. noah_jo

    noah_jo Senior Member

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    I would suggest it's the second. I can see why it would be an issue and I honestly wouldn't know how to solve it
     
  7. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    The loophole is probably that the IRFU and presumably the SRU run the provinces/clubs through subsidiary companies, which is weak and wouldn't hold up in the European Court of Justice if challenged. The Welsh clubs all have different owners.
     
  8. noah_jo

    noah_jo Senior Member

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    That is soooooo dodgy. At least nobody can blame McCafferty on this one :rolleyes:
     
  9. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    Well, he is on the board of directors... But so is every other party discussed!
     
  10. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    Does this mean that the Irish and Scottish regions are owned in their entirety by the respective unions? I had assumed that the difference was the extent of the unions' shareholding.
     
  11. noah_jo

    noah_jo Senior Member

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    I think they are yes, but someone correct me if i'm wrong?
     
  12. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    The provinces are anyway as far as I'm aware but outsiders, like Rory McIlroy and Denis O'Brien, have contributed to player wages presumably with some incentives but I don't think ownership is one of them.
     
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