Rugby: TV ratings dip again

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steynboi @ Dec 10 2008, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Dec 10 2008, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Dec 9 2008, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd be quite passionate about club rugby to be honest, I mean I must be if I'm willing to sit through a Leinster match with Welsh commentary, if it's the only option I'll take it.[/b]

We are on the same tune, club Rugby is for me very important.

Ranking the Rugby competitions from the most important to the least (according to me) gives:

1. RWC
2. 6N, Top14
3. November tours
4. Hcup
5. 3N
6. Spring tours
7. Super14, GP, Currie Cup
8. ML, NPC, ECC

[/b][/quote]

what are you doing putting top14 2nd swap it with the tri nations.
[/b][/quote]

This list is what I do prefer. I guess that for a South-African guy 3N, Super14 and Currie Cup will be closer to the top in his own list.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I think rugby is suffering from much of the same problem that ice hockey suffers from in North America. That is that it is not the most popular sport in almost all the countries it is played in. Ice hockey tried breaking into the prime time tv networks numerous times but because of the nature of the sport taking second fiddle to basketball and football it was never able to break into the prime time on television.

Ice hockey makes most of its money from gate revenue and this is where the unions are going to have to start focusing more. I noticed a lot of super rugby games have tonnes of empty seats. This is surprising seeing as how each team only plays 6 or 7 home games a season. I would personally like to see the Super 14 season expanded and see gates go up.... that stadium should be sold out when the team plays. The NHL plays 80 games a season so that 40 home games a year and some places like Montreal have had continuous sellouts for something like the past 5 years. Tickets are a lot more expensive then a rugby ticket to. Why is it that rugby struggles to draw good gate numbers?

 

[jawmalawm24]

To be honest I think Rugby is suffering because I don't mean to be cocky or anything but alot Kiwis now have the attitude that we know we're gonna win it's just a matter of how much by. Most of the boys at work pretty much confirmed this for me because they're mostly league lovers but whenever I asked them about the Grand Slam Tour games just gone they were just like "yeah we knew they were gonna win but the All Blacks should of beaten them by way more than that they suck."

This obviously isn't what every Kiwis view atm are but the majority of us pretty much know theres a really good chance of us winning games and so there isn't no suprises. I find Super14 and Air New Zealand Cup more important to me because theres still that element of suprise where you don't know what's gonna happen with your favourtie team unlike the All Blacks.

I know this will sound stupid as hell but to be honest the All Blacks need a few loses just to bring back that feeling that alot of us had before the 2003RWC. I remember fishing down at the river and there'd be about 15-20 people with their rods out but as soon as the game was just about on you'd see most them drop because everyone wanted to see the game but these days nobobdy really cares too much they don't mind just seeing a replay.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Dec 13 2008, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think rugby is suffering from much of the same problem that ice hockey suffers from in North America. That is that it is not the most popular sport in almost all the countries it is played in. Ice hockey tried breaking into the prime time tv networks numerous times but because of the nature of the sport taking second fiddle to basketball and football it was never able to break into the prime time on television.

Ice hockey makes most of its money from gate revenue and this is where the unions are going to have to start focusing more. I noticed a lot of super rugby games have tonnes of empty seats. This is surprising seeing as how each team only plays 6 or 7 home games a season. I would personally like to see the Super 14 season expanded and see gates go up.... that stadium should be sold out when the team plays. The NHL plays 80 games a season so that 40 home games a year and some places like Montreal have had continuous sellouts for something like the past 5 years. Tickets are a lot more expensive then a rugby ticket to. Why is it that rugby struggles to draw good gate numbers?[/b]

I went a few times to le Centre Molson (renamed Bell but people followed using the former name) to see les Canadiens. It was always very difficult to get tickets.

 

[smartcooky]

Maybe kiwis don't see England as a big threat anymore. They expected NZ to win and win easily, so that, combined with a 3:30am kick-off has engendered a "can't be bothered" attitude.

I am a die-hard rugby fan, but the England game was the only one I debated about getting up to watch live.

I must admit to being more excited at the prospect of the ABs playing Ireland or Wales these days.

I'd be interested to know what the viewership was for the Tri-Nations this years (compared with last year), as well as the figures for the Hing Kong Bledisloe

 

[nik]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jawmalawm24 @ Dec 13 2008, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I know this will sound stupid as hell but to be honest the All Blacks need a few loses just to bring back that feeling that alot of us had before the 2003RWC. I remember fishing down at the river and there'd be about 15-20 people with their rods out but as soon as the game was just about on you'd see most them drop because everyone wanted to see the game but these days nobobdy really cares too much they don't mind just seeing a replay.[/b]

Gotta agree here. Before 2003RWC, Super rugby and international rugby used to be really interesting, especially when the Wallabies dominating.

I remember back in 2002, Super 12, almost all the Crusaders game at Jade Stadium used to get packed. But since their continuous domination the numbers have reduced, you can see the large amounts of empty seats on TV. Apart from the die hard fans, people are sick of their domination, sick of the same old format. To be honest I am more interested in the Heineken Cup.

As for the ABs, I am sure there would have been huge interest in the 3nations and bledisloe cup this year, especially after the two straight losses. I think NZ rugby union are lucky to have so much interest generated by the whole Henry vs Deans affair. Lets be honest, if Deans did not exist, most people would not have given much crap about the bledisloe cup.

I got abit cocky myself after the Brisbane and HK bledisloe cup tests, it was difficult to see the ABs losing a game up in NH. I think everyone knew the Grand Slam was wrapped up after Wales test, and England recieving a thumping from SA in the same week.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

So its safe to say that most NZ rugby fans are fairweather fans... its kind of funny... usually a dominance makes a team even more popular.

 

[DanCarterite]

That word dominance, in sport it generally runs to a couple of seasons, and in exceptional cases 5-10 years, but apart from the world cup quarter and semi-finals it's been upwards of 50 years for the AB's and in the modern era it's been the last 20 years straight barring one rebuilding year, I can see where it could get boring.

As to viewership, a very unfreindly time (3.30am) combined with a free to air replay at a much more friendly time and a game where the result was never in doubt, well I thought about not watching it live, but I had the added impetus of knowing several people who would have enjoyed telling me the score before I got to see the game.

I don't go to super 14 games any more (I moved to the bottom of the South Island), too far to travel too expensive for the tickets, travel, time off (I work most weekends) and accomodation combined, I admittedly only caught a few when I lived in Auckland, but as a non Blues supporter I was only interested when my team (Crusaders) travelled there. There's also the fact that not everyone, especially in these tighter financial times, can afford to have pay TV, and also there's quite a few people who prefer to watch with mates/in the pub. I've had 20 people in my house watching a test match (we have a big projector screen and lots of booze). All in all I'm not at all worried by the numbers watching the England test, I'll only start worrying if the numbers fall for the 3N.

 

[tommowins]

With regards to the November tours, it seems like a joke down here. I now live in Australia and no-one cares what happens on the november tours. It is almost like a trial period for new players, which I think is quite insulting to the NH teams.

Also, in Australia, all rugby goes to Fox Sports, except about 2 games per year of Wallabies. There is no Super 14 or anything on free-to-air. Because families with small children usually have not reached financial maturity, they are less willing to throw money out the door to pay-TV. None these young kids watch Rugby Union, and they all want to be League or AFL stars, which is on free-TV (AFL is the most wacked sport I have ever laid eyes on. Bloody insane). From what I remember about NZL, Sky had Super 14 rights, however no problem with AFL/League.

So thats why its not doing so well anymore in Southern Hemisphere. The various countries need to realise that they should promote the game before getting money, because if you have no one watching or playing, then you get no money!

 

[erwanseb]

A few major blunders since 200 explain part of the drop, Rugby needs to renew itself to grow

1. Expanded tri-nations, you can watch New Zealand vs Oz once every 3 months..
2. RWC2011 in New Zealand instead of Japan
3. Treating Argentina as an outcast, 5N has incorporated Italy to rejuvenate the comp, why can't 3 becomes 4N ??
4. Franchise instead of clubs in the S14, they just do not have the same emotional value as clubs.

And what do we have form the IRB and SANZAR, the elves instead of one deep introspection on what went wrong.

To make thing better:

one unique calendar for NH/SH
total freedom of movement for players, remove the stupid rule not allowing NH based players to be selected.
Incorporate Argentina in S14 and 3N
Privatize s14 franchises
Limit international test to 10 per team per year

 

[candybum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Jun 14 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

total freedom of movement for players, remove the stupid rule not allowing NH based players to be selected.[/b]

Ehh you could argue that if that were the case, most of the top players from SH will head to the NH especially NZ players because clubs cannot match what the NH clubs can offer $$$ wise. So NZ clubs/franchises will be weak and will not attract spectators to go to games (they wouldn't pay to watch amateur players)

 

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Jun 14 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

A few major blunders since 200 explain part of the drop, Rugby needs to renew itself to grow

1. Expanded tri-nations, you can watch New Zealand vs Oz once every 3 months..
2. RWC2011 in New Zealand instead of Japan
3. Treating Argentina as an outcast, 5N has incorporated Italy to rejuvenate the comp, why can't 3 becomes 4N ??
4. Franchise instead of clubs in the S14, they just do not have the same emotional value as clubs.

And what do we have form the IRB and SANZAR, the elves instead of one deep introspection on what went wrong.

To make thing better:

one unique calendar for NH/SH
total freedom of movement for players, remove the stupid rule not allowing NH based players to be selected.
Incorporate Argentina in S14 and 3N
Privatize s14 franchises
Limit international test to 10 per team per year[/b]

I agree on some points. Expanded tri nations was a terrible idea, Argentina should definately be included (but not in the Super 14!) and I also agree that the amount of tests should be limited. Privatizing Super 14 franchises would be useless as there isn't really the people who would want to buy them. Total freedom of player movement would completely end professional domestic rugby in NZ and the French/English leagues will just be overflown with NZ players which I don't think they would want.

Anyway, the way to really make rugby popular is to have the All Blacks losing. Seriously. People expect to win so we can win 10 times in a row and they won't say anything. As soon as we lose everyone has an opinion. People also forget very quickly that we haven't lost a June test for 6 years and just stick the boot in. The French game on the weekend has got massive coverage and if we won everyone would have forgotten about it by now.

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Jun 14 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

A few major blunders since 200 explain part of the drop, Rugby needs to renew itself to grow

1. Expanded tri-nations, you can watch New Zealand vs Oz once every 3 months..
2. RWC2011 in New Zealand instead of Japan
3. Treating Argentina as an outcast, 5N has incorporated Italy to rejuvenate the comp, why can't 3 becomes 4N ??
4. Franchise instead of clubs in the S14, they just do not have the same emotional value as clubs.

And what do we have form the IRB and SANZAR, the elves instead of one deep introspection on what went wrong.

To make thing better:

one unique calendar for NH/SH
total freedom of movement for players, remove the stupid rule not allowing NH based players to be selected.
Incorporate Argentina in S14 and 3N
Privatize s14 franchises
Limit international test to 10 per team per year[/b]

Sounds like football.... <_<

Some sensible suggestions there (RWC, shortening of 3N, and to an extent the privatisation of the franchises). However we simply dont have enough people and wealth as you do up north to consistently fill stadiums and produce huge tv viewing audiences. Full blown privatisation would wreck everyone down here, it would totally F*** us over, no exaggeration. Loyalty isnt an issue and i'm convinced of that, you just get the perception that we arent loyal becasue stadiums arent full every week. Remember these stadiums are for the most part HUGE and are supported by relatively tiny populations.

I don't think there is really a solution to the problem unless professionalism is harnessed and some sort of system can be worked out between clubs/franchises and national unions which caters for the financial needs of both. Currently the ramming of3N rugby down our throats is horrible, Springbok- All Black tests used to be special events ffs.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Jun 14 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

A few major blunders since 200 explain part of the drop, Rugby needs to renew itself to grow

1. Expanded tri-nations, you can watch New Zealand vs Oz once every 3 months..
2. RWC2011 in New Zealand instead of Japan
3. Treating Argentina as an outcast, 5N has incorporated Italy to rejuvenate the comp, why can't 3 becomes 4N ??
4. Franchise instead of clubs in the S14, they just do not have the same emotional value as clubs.

And what do we have form the IRB and SANZAR, the elves instead of one deep introspection on what went wrong.

To make thing better:

one unique calendar for NH/SH
total freedom of movement for players, remove the stupid rule not allowing NH based players to be selected.
Incorporate Argentina in S14 and 3N
Privatize s14 franchises
Limit international test to 10 per team per year[/b]

I agree with the 4 points you listed but disagree with some of your suggestions.

Unique calendar? I am not sure this is achievable but better coordination may be.
Total freedom of movements... It's really up to each Union to decide about its own selection policy. I understand they want to protect their competitions.
Incorporation of Argentina... This would be a win-win decision in my view.
Privatize... It's up to the union to decide. I am not sure to understand what privatization would bring in the context of SANZAR Rugby.
Limit international... There's already such a ruling by the IRB, I think the limit is 11, but you cannot forbid Unions to add Test matchs if they agree with their counterpart. This is something that is not feasible for France due to the sharing of power between the Union and the LNR.