[RWC19 Warm-Up] - England vs Ireland

[Ragey Erasmus]

You are starting to contradict yourself now, if his peers voted him player of the season by definition it can’t be all his own hype, regardless of putting a caveat in there that they say he’s disruptive, whilst like Ollie I would like to know when this was confirmed and not simply speculation?

Not really, you can be voted player of the year but without having the god-like status attached to him in which he walks into the England squad and all our problems are solved.

 

[Which Tyler]

BBC's plusses and minuses for England.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49451437

Nice to see that someone in the media noticed Youngs' performance (as opposed to Stephen Jones giving him an 8 with a near-perfect performance).
Also nice to see that someone in the media has noticed Daly's defensive issues, and even mentions Watson, but... Is he in on the joke here? Or does he genuinely think that "wing Watson... turning out at full-back for Bath at the end of last season" is experimental?

 

[Jimbo]

Not really, you can be voted player of the year but without having the god-like status attached to him in which he walks into the England squad and all our problems are solved.

Yes really, if he is voted player of the season then the hype is atleast in some part external so not all is own hype which is what you implied, anyway there is not point debating this any further, this all started because someone asked about what cips offered point of difference wise and you have gone on a character assassination mission against him, BTW I’m still waiting for this evidence that the same peers who voted him player of the season have found him to be toxic.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nice to see that someone in the media noticed Youngs' performance (as opposed to Stephen Jones giving him an 8 with a near-perfect performance).
Also nice to see that someone in the media has noticed Daly's defensive issues, and even mentions Watson, but... Is he in on the joke here? Or does he genuinely think that "wing Watson... turning out at full-back for Bath at the end of last season" is experimental?

The meme exists for a reason.

Just so everyone is clear - he has played the vast majority of his rugby for Bath at 15.

He is a FB who England play on the wing. Simple as that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Better winger than FB though, tbh*





*Though I'd, obviously, have him at 15 over Daly

 

[bushytop]

Better winger than FB though, tbh

Better FB than Daly.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Better winger than FB though, tbh*





*Though I'd, obviously, have him at 15 over Daly

Don't agree.

The reality is, that we don't know at international level, because he's not really been given an extended run at 15.

 

[Scotty]

So may daly watson or may watson daly. Which is stronger? Going forward and defending? Because for me thats our back 3 with big joe at 23 making an impact. But tbh ita like the back row those are the 4 whats their best order.

For the back row underhill curry billy Wilson. Any on the bench i dont mine as they will make an impact.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So may daly watson or may watson daly. Which is stronger? Going forward and defending? Because for me thats our back 3 with big joe at 23 making an impact. But tbh ita like the back row those are the 4 whats their best order.

For the back row underhill curry billy Wilson. Any on the bench i dont mine as they will make an impact.

May, Nowell, Watson - Daly or Joe in the 23 shirt.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Need to have one of Joe or Nowell starting as a hard running option.

One Running Back and one Wide Reciever type winger is what works for us.

 

[Scotty]

May, Nowell, Watson - Daly in the 23 shirt.

Not a bad shout at all. Nowell vs joe is another big question. I think nowell is ahead and they both have attributes the other doesnt have.

Daly at 23 isnt a bad shout. covers 11 and 13 14 15 but you do lose his boot and as he proved vs wales game 1 he is a drop goal option. Not that they are the biggest reasons

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Need to have one of Joe or Nowell starting as a hard running option.

One Running Back and one Wide Reciever type winger is what works for us.

Agreed,

I think Nowell is suffering from "What have you done or me recently?" because of his injury - he doesn't seem to be in a lot of peoples minds (not necessarily on here, but just the rugby world in general). Think it's going to be a similar situation to when Launchbury/JJ come back from injury and everyone goes "Oh ****, he is really really good isn't he?"

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think he's been consistently underappreciated because people don't really understand how beneficial his short running game is.

He's constantly demanding that the pillar and guard stay in tight to the ruck and can't drift out to the first wide out receiver/pod. As well as just being very tiring to actually tackle, not just cover.

 

[Scotty]

Agreed,

I think Nowell is suffering from "What have you done or me recently?" because of his injury - he doesn't seem to be in a lot of peoples minds (not necessarily on here, but just the rugby world in general). Think it's going to be a similar situation to when Launchbury/JJ come back from injury and everyone goes "Oh ****, he is really really good isn't he?"

Thats impressive depth that we can omit nowell JJ and launchbury from the 23 and shields hughes and brown from the 31 and no one bats and eyelid.

 

[higgik]

So may daly watson or may watson daly. Which is stronger? Going forward and defending? Because for me thats our back 3 with big joe at 23 making an impact. But tbh ita like the back row those are the 4 whats their best order.

For the back row underhill curry billy Wilson. Any on the bench i dont mine as they will make an impact.

Stuart Barnes’ article in The Times, is interesting, as he says that EJ hasn’t got a starting XV, and the players are happy that he picks a 23 based on the game plan for the opposition. All the players seem to have bought got into this concept and understand that they are not being dropped, just ‘rested’ for a game that will suit them better.
We have seen recently in the warm ups he has been trying different game plans with different personnel, (I am thinking about using Marchant from outside 31, to run the game plan for when JJ is fit), rather than draft in Watson, who is a different type of player.

If the players can accept this and are happy to play the role required, he has created a squad with a good chance of winning Bill, as other teams will not know the sort of game plan he will use.
The example Barnes gave was using a midfield of Farrell-Manu-Slade against SA, where getting ball wider quicker is important, but using Ford-Farrell-Manu v NZ where power nearer the pack will pull the NZ defenders in from the wide channels.

 

[Dai Perk]

EJ hasn’t got a starting XV, and the players are happy that he picks a 23 based on the game plan for the opposition. All the players seem to have bought got into this concept and understand that they are not being dropped, just ‘rested’ for a game that will suit them better.

Wow, if that's accurate, it seems pretty brilliant. Very Bill Belichick-esque...

I find myself liking Eddie Jones more and more as we lead up to the RWC, gotta admit the guy seems pretty special.

 

[BPM]

That entirely depends upon what you mean by ‘special’ ...

 

[rugga658]

Stuart Barnes’ article in The Times, is interesting, as he says that EJ hasn’t got a starting XV, and the players are happy that he picks a 23 based on the game plan for the opposition. All the players seem to have bought got into this concept and understand that they are not being dropped, just ‘rested’ for a game that will suit them better.

.

That would be a prudent strategy

Pumas pack is physical but not massive compared to their peers
Moreover with their wide wide game, they're vulnerable to under resourcing their
attacking breakdowns

Hence a backrow of Curry Wilson & B Vunipola going hard for the ball is likely
to cause Pumas problems

Against French with a bigger pack you're going to pick Wilson especially as Iturria
plays at #6 who is essentially a 3rd Lock in the pack

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That would be a prudent strategy

Pumas pack is physical but not massive compared to their peers
Moreover with their wide wide game, they're vulnerable to under resourcing their
attacking breakdowns

Hence a backrow of Curry Wilson & B Vunipola going hard for the ball is likely
to cause Pumas problems

Against French with a bigger pack you're going to pick Wilson especially as Iturria
plays at #6 who is essentially a 3rd Lock in the pack

Isn’t that all the more reason for playing Curry and Underhill? You can’t be blind to the opposition, but surely our emphasis should be playing to our strengths and let the opposition worry about us?

I read the Barnes article. All sounded dandy. In theory. Back to the real world, obviously there will always be an element of horses for courses, but fundamentally too much chopping and changing when the pressure’s on won’t be a good thing. Potentially trashing continuity, of which we have little enough, at precisely the point when it needs building feels odd. What we really need are carefully selected match day 23s that give us options and are smart enough to adapt tactics on the hoof. Whether we have the collective leadership and the rugby smarts to change horses mid match remains a big question mark.

 

[Scotty]

Isn’t that all the more reason for playing Curry and Underhill? You can’t be blind to the opposition, but surely our emphasis should be playing to our strengths and let the opposition worry about us?

I read the Barnes article. All sounded dandy. In theory. Back to the real world, obviously there will always be an element of horses for courses, but fundamentally too much chopping and changing when the pressure’s on won’t be a good thing. Potentially trashing continuity, of which we have little enough, at precisely the point when it needs building feels odd. What we really need are carefully selected match day 23s that give us options and are smart enough to adapt tactics on the hoof. Whether we have the collective leadership and the rugby smarts to change horses mid match remains a big question mark.

But do we have a settled 23. And i do believe most of our combinations work.

Mako george sinks. marler LCD Cole/ Genge

Itoje kruis. Lawes/ Launch

Wilson curry billy. Underhill/ ludlam

Thats the starting pack and bench before the /. They are all interchangable IMO, not saying wholesale changes but tweeks to put out the right players at the right times vs the right opponants i agree with. I dont think that will give us an unsettled team constantly changing outside that 23 maybe but keeping ludlam launch genge as injury cover/tier 2 games and rotsting the rest does make sense, especially if they do buy in to it.