SA Rugby, NZ to push for global season

[smartcooky]

Yeh I don't disagree with you . I think we are just concentrating on the wrong things . I could write a list as long as my arm of players that are born in the islands and play for other countries .

FUN FACT:

In the whole 110 year history of New Zealand Rugby, out of 1141 players to play for the All Blacks, only 36 were born in the Pacific Islands (I can list them if you like)

In the last three Rugby World Cups alone, 37 New Zealand born players have played for the three Pacific Islands teams.

Remind me again who is poaching players from who?

 

[Maverick1987]

FUN FACT:

In the whole 110 year history of New Zealand Rugby, out of 1141 players to play for the All Blacks, only 36 were born in the Pacific Islands (I can list them if you like)

In the last three Rugby World Cups alone, 37 New Zealand born players have played for the three Pacific Islands teams.

Remind me again who is poaching players from who?

Don't get your knickers in a twist . I'm not solely pointing a finger at NZ . I'm talking about world rugby as a whole . Why do you take everything so personally ? You were like it on the Maro Itoje thread too ....

You missed out on all of my other points so you could get all offended over one thing

Here's a fun fact for you . In that post that you quoted I didn't even mention New Zealand, I just said other countries .

 

[nickdnz]

Don't get your knickers in a twist . I'm not solely pointing a finger at NZ . I'm talking about world rugby as a whole . Why do you take everything so personally ? You were like it on the Maro Itoje thread too ....

You missed out on all of my other points so you could get all offended over one thing

Here's a fun fact for you . In that post that you quoted I didn't even mention New Zealand, I just said other countries .

I don't see how it is exactly a pressing issue (I didn't respond earlier as I just assumed it was a pisstake. I think player eligibility on the whole is a big issue in international rugby; but I can guarantee you stricter eligibility criteria such as removing the ridiculous grandparent rules or increasing the time of residency, would benefit no country more than New Zealand and South Africa AND hurt no country more than Samoa.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't see how it is exactly a pressing issue (I didn't respond earlier as I just assumed it was a pisstake. I think player eligibility on the whole is a big issue in international rugby; but I can guarantee you stricter eligibility criteria such as removing the ridiculous grandparent rules or increasing the time of residency, would benefit no country more than New Zealand and South Africa AND hurt no country more than Samoa.

Exactly!

Samoa and Tonga benefit hugely from their foreign player legion, certainly a lot more than they are disadvantaged by the Samoan and Tongan born players playing for other countries.

In 2015, there were 13 NZ born players in the Samoan squad (and 15 in the 2011 squad) The figures for Tonga are 12 and 7 respectively. If you took those 47 players away, they would struggle to find replacements of a comparable quantity.

The facts are that New Zealand born players stock the squads of more foreign teams than any other country, 38 at the 2011, 42 at the RWC in 2015 RWC.

Technically, it is OUR stocks of players that are being pillaged

 

[Peat]

I can't believe you guys are biting. I guess if you throw enough stale bait in, eventually the fish will rise to the surface to try and push it away.

I don't see how it is exactly a pressing issue (I didn't respond earlier as I just assumed it was a pisstake. I think player eligibility on the whole is a big issue in international rugby; but I can guarantee you stricter eligibility criteria such as removing the ridiculous grandparent rules or increasing the time of residency, would benefit no country more than New Zealand and South Africa AND hurt no country more than Samoa.

I think there's actually an argument for lax eligibility being good for the international game. It results in stronger sides all round. Remove it, and the quality could dip quite dramatically in some cases. Less strong sides equals a less attractive product.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think there's actually an argument for lax eligibility being good for the international game. It results in stronger sides all round. Remove it, and the quality could dip quite dramatically in some cases. Less strong sides equals a less attractive product.

Would potentially lead to a fairer distribution of funds/tests to growing nations though... if a properly local Samoa team is getting dicked on and falls down the rankings then there would be more tests available for the emerging Euro/American nations, for example.
Again, it could also reward countries which develop their own players, which is utterly crucial.

Grandparents I'm less worries about, 3 year residency needs to be increased... although obviously that won't happen anytime soon, given the recent dismissal of the idea by WR.

 

[Car]

I found this great article about NZ and "poaching":
http://tier2rugby.blogspot.de/2014/07/the-truth-how-wrong-old-all-blacks.html

It's the residency rule that needs to change. Is there another sport where you become eligible that easily?

 

[0tago]

Had a laugh at John Hardie who got into the Scottish team because he had a Great Aunty from there.

Rugby is not yet globalized enough or have enough top quality player spread to have such tough restrictions on player heritage.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's the residency rule that needs to change. Is there another sport where you become eligible that easily?

Quite a few... was it Handball that Kuwait (?) just essentially bought themselves an international team by giving them all citizenship and a load of cash?

RL is far worse than RU, for example.

 

[Car]

Quite a few... was it Handball that Kuwait (?) just essentially bought themselves an international team by giving them all citizenship and a load of cash?

It was Qatar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_World_Men's_Handball_Championship#Controversy

Citizenship of the country concerned.
b) They shall not have played in any national team of another country in the three years preceding their first appearance in the national team in an official match. Official matches are considered to be: the qualifying matches for a continental
Edition: 8 July 2014 Page 6
championship, matches in a continental championship, qualifying matches for IHF World Championships and Olympic Games, matches in IHF World Championships and Olympic Games
6.2 Player eligibility in case of multiple nationalities
A player who holds more than one nationality and who complies with 6.1., is eligible to officially represent one of those countries if:
a) he was born in the territory of the federation concerned or
b) his biological mother or biological father were born in the territory of the federation concerned or
c) he has been living in the territory of the federation concerned for more than 24 months in any period of his life.
6.3 Change eligibility to play for a National Federation
It is only permitted to change the National Federation and thus to obtain eligibility to play for a new national team one time.

Source

What's it like in RL?

 

[smartcooky]

I found this great article about NZ and "poaching":
http://tier2rugby.blogspot.de/2014/07/the-truth-how-wrong-old-all-blacks.html

It's the residency rule that needs to change. Is there another sport where you become eligible that easily?

Its a great article that hits the mark a every turn.

 

[ratsapprentice]

What's it like in RL?

Lot's of young English, Aus and Kiwis playing for the likes of Ireland, Samoa, Cook Island, Fiji etc. before getting picked for Aus, Eng or NZ.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Italy's RL side is pretty crazy
At the 2013 world cup they had 24 players and only 1 born in Italy.
1 from Argentina, 1 from France, 1 from England and the rest Australian.

 

[Peat]

Cricket's eligibility rules seem a little mad from casual inspection; I think Boyd Rankin played for Ireland, then England, then back to Ireland. Think it's not unusual for NI players to turn out for Ireland at the Olympics in hockey, then switch to GB. Olympic eligibility rules seem a little slack in general actually - remember how they made Rugby open a loophole for players to switch for the 7s?

I think football eligibility is solely based around passport as well, which creates at least a few residency periods shorter than rugby. *googles* Ah no, they changed it in 2004 so that players are required to demonstrate a "clear connection". Although I think Wilfried Zaha is not tied to England, despite playing for England, as it was only a friendly. Yup, number of players have played international football for one country in friendlies and switched very recently.

I think Rugby Union is some distance from having the shakiest eligibility criteria.

 

[0tago]

Cricket's eligibility rules seem a little mad from casual inspection; I think Boyd Rankin played for Ireland, then England, then back to Ireland. Think it's not unusual for NI players to turn out for Ireland at the Olympics in hockey, then switch to GB. Olympic eligibility rules seem a little slack in general actually - remember how they made Rugby open a loophole for players to switch for the 7s?

I think football eligibility is solely based around passport as well, which creates at least a few residency periods shorter than rugby. *googles* Ah no, they changed it in 2004 so that players are required to demonstrate a "clear connection". Although I think Wilfried Zaha is not tied to England, despite playing for England, as it was only a friendly. Yup, number of players have played international football for one country in friendlies and switched very recently.

I think Rugby Union is some distance from having the shakiest eligibility criteria.

Luke Ronchi jumped the ditch from Aussie right into the Blackcaps a few years back. I wish he'd jump right back, I'll even pay for his tickets after his abysmal ODI and t20 displays. :lol:

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

5 years residency and keep the granny rule.

If a foreigner puts up with Irish people see-sawing between treating them with complete adoration and villifying for five years they deserve to play for Ireland, if a foreigner lives in Scotland for five years they probably deserve done serious recognition from the UN.

 

[Groundhog]

Agree with Alpha Bro. Always thought someone willing to move to and live in Glasgow deserves a Nobel Peace Prize and Mother Theresa levels of admiration not scorn, insults and 5th place in the 6 Nations every year.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why is this now becoming a residency topic? That isn't the main issue with regard to the thread. It's about making a global season.

 

[saulan]

Why is this now becoming a residency topic? That isn't the main issue with regard to the thread. It's about making a global season.

 

[Car]

Thanks for the explanations about RL and cricket.