SA Rugby, NZ to push for global season

[AlynDavies]

Utter gibberish.

Increasing the 6 Nations to home and away games, would result in making more concessions to their own rugby calendar and the international windows. So in essence what you are advocating is changing something which is fundamentally broken, in the most incompetent and petulant way possible.

Both NZ and South Africa are trying to make changes to something which is broken. In the last June series (2014); Super Rugby had to be interrupted in order to play against a weakened opposition. Who unsurprisingly lost because the current format throws their slim chance of being competitive out the door.

What is stunning to me is that two unions propose changes which could improve the same as a product, and it's met instantly by some people with "we don't have to change anything, you can't make us, it's your problem". It's like we all must always eat a turd sandwich instead of ham and cheese, because you might have to share the crust..

How do you say that? The Six nations play a 3 or 4 week international series from November to December, then play the 6 Nations from January, all we'd simply do is remove the November games against the Sanzaar teams and replace those fixtures with extra games in January to March. Basically instead of three international periods, at the start, in the middle, or at the end of the season, we'd have just one in the middle.

What no one seems to grasp is nearly every Six Nations game is sold out and the extra games to replace the November series could easily be filled, as well as the lost revenue. Frankly we see New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia almost every year at home, but our fellow European countries once every 2 years. What could Sanzaar do to replace the June tests and November tours? New Zealand could play 7 Bledisloe Cup games against Australia a year.

I'm not saying changes don't need to be made, but one massive problem that needs addressing is most rugby clubs grounds in Wales and England are council owned, and those grounds are used by other sports, while the rugby clubs have to stick to their time frame of September to March / April. Feasibility studies have already been made by the RFU and WRU and it was a resounding NO from the clubs for many reasons. You completely ignored this part of my above post. Rugby Union is a winter sport and frankly winter is in different times of year for the Northern and Southern hemispheres. The problem is all the money is in France and England, and the rest of us are trying to compete.
The truth is the money for rugby union comes from Europe NOT the pacific, our players don't leave our shores to go to New Zealand, Australia or South Africa, your players come here for the money. The English and French teams have already crushed the Celts and Italians and forced them into the new European Champions Cup on their terms. The point your missing is if push comes to shove the European countries could easily withdraw into themselves if this becomes a major issue.

Finally most of the growth potential of the game seems to be in Europe. If more countries push for international honors it's likely to be the 6 Nations B teams, while clubs from those countries (Georgia, Romania, Russia, Spain and, Portugal) have / or are already competing in the European Rugby Challenge Cup. The 6 Nations could easily expand to bring in more teams if needed to replace those lost games, in November and June we have the teams to do it already. Romania would be a popular inclusion, they have already beaten 4 of the 6 Nations teams. Georgia can fill their national stadium (Boris Paichadze stadium) for home games 54,500 capacity. I just think New Zealand over rate their influence in the game, yes their the best team and have a magnificent history, but nobody says the 1987 and 1991 World Cups didn't matter because South Africa weren't in them and if New Zealand took their ball and went home, the rest of us in Europe would carry on with out much problem.

 

[smartcooky]

Hold on; why would NZ compromise their foreign player rule again? That has nothing to do with the issue. The rule is set to offer an incentive to retain top players in domestic rugby. The need to do so does not diminish because of a global season.

And its not just that. Essentially, there are multiple reasons why the NZRU will not be changing their selection policy any time soon, none of which would be affected or changed by a global season.

I wrote a long post back in April 2015, condensed from an article I wrote for a local paper.

http://www.therugbyforum.com/thread...Based-Overseas?p=719546&viewfull=1#post719546

Its worth a read for anyone who really wants to understand the reasons for NZRU selection policy,

It's like we all must always eat a turd sandwich instead of ham and cheese, because you might have to share the crust..

Brilliant! What a great description of NH attitudes to change!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Good article from BM on this subject (albeit with a focus on Europe): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...warming-to-a-summer-switch---time-for-northe/

 

[TRF_heineken]

How do you say that? The Six nations play a 3 or 4 week international series from November to December, then play the 6 Nations from January, all we'd simply do is remove the November games against the Sanzaar teams and replace those fixtures with extra games in January to March. Basically instead of three international periods, at the start, in the middle, or at the end of the season, we'd have just one in the middle.

What no one seems to grasp is nearly every Six Nations game is sold out and the extra games to replace the November series could easily be filled, as well as the lost revenue. Frankly we see New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia almost every year at home, but our fellow European countries once every 2 years. What could Sanzaar do to replace the June tests and November tours? New Zealand could play 7 Bledisloe Cup games against Australia a year.

I'm not saying changes don't need to be made, but one massive problem that needs addressing is most rugby clubs grounds in Wales and England are council owned, and those grounds are used by other sports, while the rugby clubs have to stick to their time frame of September to March / April. Feasibility studies have already been made by the RFU and WRU and it was a resounding NO from the clubs for many reasons. You completely ignored this part of my above post. Rugby Union is a winter sport and frankly winter is in different times of year for the Northern and Southern hemispheres. The problem is all the money is in France and England, and the rest of us are trying to compete.
The truth is the money for rugby union comes from Europe NOT the pacific, our players don't leave our shores to go to New Zealand, Australia or South Africa, your players come here for the money. The English and French teams have already crushed the Celts and Italians and forced them into the new European Champions Cup on their terms. The point your missing is if push comes to shove the European countries could easily withdraw into themselves if this becomes a major issue.

Finally most of the growth potential of the game seems to be in Europe. If more countries push for international honors it's likely to be the 6 Nations B teams, while clubs from those countries (Georgia, Romania, Russia, Spain and, Portugal) have / or are already competing in the European Rugby Challenge Cup. The 6 Nations could easily expand to bring in more teams if needed to replace those lost games, in November and June we have the teams to do it already. Romania would be a popular inclusion, they have already beaten 4 of the 6 Nations teams. Georgia can fill their national stadium (Boris Paichadze stadium) for home games 54,500 capacity. I just think New Zealand over rate their influence in the game, yes their the best team and have a magnificent history, but nobody says the 1987 and 1991 World Cups didn't matter because South Africa weren't in them and if New Zealand took their ball and went home, the rest of us in Europe would carry on with out much problem.

Ha!

I think you have a very narrow viewpoint.

The All Blacks is probably the team that are single-handedly making rugby a truly Global game. If you look at the promotion of their last match in the USA and also the upcoming one, it's clear that they are above any other team in the world in getting bums in seats and fill stadiums.

Hell, just look at when they come to South Africa, Every time a sold out stadium, which isn't the case when the other teams come (apart from the B&I Lions).

And I can say this with first hand experience as I go to a Springbok match every year (Usually the All Blacks match). South Africa will rather stand behind NZ than a NH team.

Let's take a growing market like Japan for instance, which is by geographical viewpoint a NH nation. But they play in the Super Rugby. They snap up mostly South Africans, New Zealanders and Australians to go and play in their domestic league. So what does that tell you?

Whether you like it or not, New Zealand is the team everyone looks up to, yes, even South Africa. We want to be the best, and to be the best, you have to beat the best, something we haven't accomplished in quite a while. We want to play like them, we even want to adopt their contracting system they have with their players.

Everyone knows the Haka, but not everyone knows the wardance of Fiji...

 

[Car]

Everyone knows the Haka, but not everyone knows the wardance of Fiji...

This. While so far, if there's any rugby shown or streamed in Germany, it's the World Cup or the Six Nations, it's the All Blacks and their Haka that people who aren't into the sport associate with it. When I talked about watching the World Cup, that's what people brought up, nothing else. The All Blacks even appeared in ads on TV here a couple of years ago. Yes, it makes sense to show NH rugby here, but the All Blacks are the "mascot" of international rugby.

 

[Maverick1987]

Nah **** the ABs and SA . They are just trying to throw their weight around . Probably come over here and call English people arrogant without a tongue in cheek to be seen. The only game I wanna see is Leicester Tigers vs Northampton Saints in the rain in January .....

#clubbeforecountry

Maybe what could help rugby outside the top tier is if everyone stopped pinching the 2nd tier and lowers best players all the time and yes I'm talking about the ABs stealing Pacific Islanders as well as England, Wales, Australia and Scotland. I would say Ireland too but they tend to get project players that are **** like Ben Te'o

 

[smartcooky]

Nah **** the ABs and SA . They are just trying to throw their weight around . Probably come over here and call English people arrogant without a tongue in cheek to be seen. The only game I wanna see is Leicester Tigers vs Northampton Saints in the rain in January .....

#clubbeforecountry

Maybe what could help rugby outside the top tier is if everyone stopped pinching the 2nd tier and lowers best players all the time and yes I'm talking about the ABs stealing Pacific Islanders as well as England, Wales, Australia and Scotland. I would say Ireland too but they tend to get project players that are **** like Ben Te'o 

Not getting any bites today maverick?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Nah **** the ABs and SA . They are just trying to throw their weight around . Probably come over here and call English people arrogant without a tongue in cheek to be seen. The only game I wanna see is Leicester Tigers vs Northampton Saints in the rain in January .....

#clubbeforecountry

Maybe what could help rugby outside the top tier is if everyone stopped pinching the 2nd tier and lowers best players all the time and yes I'm talking about the ABs stealing Pacific Islanders as well as England, Wales, Australia and Scotland. I would say Ireland too but they tend to get project players that are **** like Ben Te'o 

Bit rich, don't think NZ has ever stolen England, Wales, Australia or Scotland.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Nah **** the ABs and SA . They are just trying to throw their weight around . Probably come over here and call English people arrogant without a tongue in cheek to be seen. The only game I wanna see is Leicester Tigers vs Northampton Saints in the rain in January .....

#clubbeforecountry

Maybe what could help rugby outside the top tier is if everyone stopped pinching the 2nd tier and lowers best players all the time and yes I'm talking about the ABs stealing Pacific Islanders as well as England, Wales, Australia and Scotland. I would say Ireland too but they tend to get project players that are **** like Ben Te'o

Brad Barritt, Mouritz Botha, CJ Stander, WP Nel, Manu Tuilagi, Josh Stander, Sean Maitland... All of them likes your post...

 

[saulan]

Bit rich, don't think NZ has ever stolen England, Wales, Australia or Scotland.

I believe he is saying that your countries all take players from the Pacific Islands, not that NZ takes from England, Wales, Australia and Scotland.

 

[smartcooky]

The bit about Pacific Island poaching is BS...Maverick knows this, he's just fishing, and the fish are biting!

 

[TRF_heineken]

The bit about Pacific Island poaching is BS...Maverick knows this, he's just fishing, and the fish are biting!

Reminds me of that thread about 2 or 3 years ago, and then there were just stacks and stacks of links showing quite the opposite...

 

[Maverick1987]

The bit about Pacific Island poaching is BS...Maverick knows this, he's just fishing, and the fish are biting!

Everyone poaches players from the Pacific Islanders . Yes that includes the "whiter than white" ABs . At least we don't deny we poach them ! All I'm saying is that I don't want the season to change . Mainly because I'm club before country anyway . I couldn't care less about SH rugby except for 5 weeks every 4 years . Then I forget about it again . Why would I want rugby as we know it to change forever . The RFU do as much as anyone to spread the word about rugby even if it very often does come at a benefit to them

Edit : I can see the benefit to it but the logistics of it all won't work and as we have seen in the past the NZRU are quite stubborn . Equally as stubborn as the club owners in England and France . Let's not beat around the bush this is about maximising the money making potential of rugby union . I highly doubt the European club owners want that tbh well not that they don't want it they just don't care about it

 

[TRF_heineken]

Everyone poaches players from the Pacific Islanders . Yes that includes the "whiter than white" ABs . At least we don't deny we poach them ! All I'm saying is that I don't want the season to change . Mainly because I'm club before country anyway . I couldn't care less about SH rugby except for 5 weeks every 4 years . Then I forget about it again . Why would I want rugby as we know it to change forever . The RFU do as much as anyone to spread the word about rugby even if it very often does come at a benefit to them

The RFU spreads the word by poaching the most... I hear they have a very good "Word-Spreader" in Kwazulu-Natal

 

[Maverick1987]

The RFU spreads the word by poaching the most... I hear they have a very good "Word-Spreader" in Kwazulu-Natal

Nah Scotland pinch the most haha but it's not really the point is it . Everyone does it and sorting that problem out first would help to grow rugby around the world ....

 

[TRF_heineken]

Nah Scotland pinch the most haha but it's not really the point is it . Everyone does it and sorting that problem out first would help to grow rugby around the world ....

Oh, I don't know, I think 7's are doing a pretty good job of spreading the game to a global audience. Canada for instance had their first 7's tournament this year...

The Rugby World Cup last year had pretty good ratings with regard to viewership.

The growth in the SH with the expansion of the Super Rugby to Japan, Singapore and Argentina has also contributed to spreading the game... I think We here down South of the Equator are doing a pretty good job...

 

[Maverick1987]

Oh, I don't know, I think 7's are doing a pretty good job of spreading the game to a global audience. Canada for instance had their first 7's tournament this year...

The Rugby World Cup last year had pretty good ratings with regard to viewership.

The growth in the SH with the expansion of the Super Rugby to Japan, Singapore and Argentina has also contributed to spreading the game... I think We here down South of the Equator are doing a pretty good job...

Yeh I don't disagree with you . I think we are just concentrating on the wrong things . I could write a list as long as my arm of players that are born in the islands and play for other countries .

 

[nzlizard]

Yeh I don't disagree with you . I think we are just concentrating on the wrong things . I could write a list as long as my arm of players that are born in the islands and play for other countries .

That is most probably true, however most of the list payed all there rugby in another country and there is a reason why they continue to do so and play for that country.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yeh I don't disagree with you . I think we are just concentrating on the wrong things . I could write a list as long as my arm of players that are born in the islands and play for other countries .

Who is this "we" you are referring to? But where you are born and where you grew up are 2 totally different things. I was born on an island, but I grew up in South Africa, I was schooled here, I live here, I am South African, just because my mother couldn't hold me in until we got back to shore doesn't make me less of a South African citizen...

Seems to me like you want to get this thread to go off topic, and focus only on this minor issue of pacific islanders, yet you don't provide facts, or links of your statements, and it's not really what this thread is all about. Rather stay on topic, talk about the issues raised regarding a global season, and how South Africa and New Zealand are concentrating on the correct things for the global game...

 

[Maverick1987]

Who is this "we" you are referring to? But where you are born and where you grew up are 2 totally different things. I was born on an island, but I grew up in South Africa, I was schooled here, I live here, I am South African, just because my mother couldn't hold me in until we got back to shore doesn't make me less of a South African citizen...

Seems to me like you want to get this thread to go off topic, and focus only on this minor issue of pacific islanders, yet you don't provide facts, or links of your statements, and it's not really what this thread is all about. Rather stay on topic, talk about the issues raised regarding a global season, and how South Africa and New Zealand are concentrating on the correct things for the global game...

I was sort of on topic because my concerns are that there are far more pressing matters at hand than those in the OP . However I understand what you are saying . If all parties can get together and sort a way for the seasons to be aligned without causing carnage for our club game then I'd be fine with it . As I've said in previous posts club rugby is the bread and butter for me not international rugby

The we I was referring to was the rugby world in general but mainly the top tier