SA touring squad.

[stormer2010]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Nov 2 2009, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Whos missing from the test side that just beat the Lions and won the Round Robin thingy? aside from those the two that have moved abroad?[/b]

Round robin thingy? i'm assuming you're talking about the emerging Boks? Well, thing is, even then the best players weren't always in it. Players that where selected then who are more deserving (in the opinions of 90% of SA rugby supporters, I can assure you) than some selected include Steven Sykes, Duane Vermeulen, Jean Deysel off the top of my head.

If I can rate players the way I feel the picking order should be (and hopefully other pundits can prove/disprove me right)(bescause I have the time at the mo) and highlight the ones selected to try and indicate why i feel the better players weren't always chosen;

Fullback
1 Stefan Terblanche Sharks
2 Frans Steyn (overseas) Sharks
3 Joe Pietersen WP
*4 Riaan Viljoen* Griquas
from here on they aren't test class IMO
*5 Zane Kirschner Bulls*
6 Louis Ludik (injured) Lions
7 Hennie Daniller
...
*15 Earl Rose*
Top 3 not selected and the 4th choice gets the bench for the mid weeks..

Wing
*1 Bryan Habana* Bulls
2 Lionell Mapoe Cheetahs (can't understand him not being selected)
*3 JP Pietersen* Sharks
-
4 Gerhard van der Heever Bulls
*5 Francois Hougaard Bulls (as utility)*
6 Tonderai Chavanga
7 Fabian Juries
8 Gio Aplon
*9 Jongi Nokwe*
*10 Odwa Ndungane*
Not too many problems here as we are lacking in depth re real quality wingers. Mapoe unlucky, though. Nokwe and Ndugane aren't rounded wingers and are only here because of previous inclusion and its a pity PDiv has not given one of the up-and-comers a shot; even those exciting guys from Natal; Mvovo and Vulindlo.

Centre
*1 Jacque Fourie* seeing as JdV is overseas
*2 Wynand Olivier*
3 Doppies laGrange
*4 Juan de Jongh*
5 Riaan Swanepoel
*6 Meyer Bosman*
*7 Adi Jacobs*

Fly half
Steyn is our best and probably Pienaar second but where is Jacques Louis Potgieter? Earl Rose is the third in line for the ten jersey as he was for the Emerging Boks before being pulled out with Willem de Waal coming in to tidy up what Rose, who doesn't even get gametime for our 6th best province if others aren't injured.

Scrumhalf
Fourie du Preez is a guy carying shoulder ****les and should have been rested. Although we don't have anyone of his class we do have 2 players that will walk into any other national first Xv in Jano Vermaak and Sarel Pretorius that haven't been selected ahead of Heini Adams. Adams is allright, though even if I rate him behind these 2 as well as possibly Rory Kockott.

8th man
Pretty happy here with the inclusion of Spies, Kankowski and Johnson as there wouldn't be place for the real blockbuster in Willem Alberts. But Spies and Kanko are the incumbents and Johnson should do us proud.

Flank
Can't argue here except for Raubenheimer who is probably around 12th in the picking order. apart from guys that have performed for a couple of seasons now, I would have expected the surprise choice (if one had to be made) to be either Frans Viljoen or Mpho Mbiyozo.

Lock
Same with the above? and hargreaves hardly played any rugby this year behind the more deserving Sykes. He isn't even black. Anyway, Jacques Lombaard and Anton van Zyl are the two best behind Bakkies and Matfield. Bekker, Sykes, Nico Breedt and Dawid de Villiers after that. Hargreaves? Dad must be rich.

Hooker
Here and at prop the cr@p hits the fan and I can't see us winning a single scrum fairly;
Bismarck and John Smit are our best hooker as Smith is no test prop. Apart from them the picking order goes Strauss, Liebenberg, Botha, Kuun. Who gets chosen? Ralepelle and Maku who are the 3rd and 4th choice hookers in their province never mind the country. Maku never even played rugby apart from two games off the bench. ?????

Prop
Don't even get me started here. Our incumbents are quality players but the entire Cheetahs and WP first choice tight and loose heads scrum better. Guthro and Beast are slightly better in the loose. Possibly but I would only play Beast for this reason. Jannie du plessis is an overrated scrummager and adds nothing else and Heinke van der Merwe, although a a good scrummager, hasn't even practiced for 6 months with injury since the S14. Guys overlooked: Wian du Preez, WP Nel who is even better in the loose and can actually scrum as well as Wikus Blaauw and maybe even Brok Harris.


All said, the main core is indeed selected (even where two key player maybe should have been rested) but its with the midweekers and some guys on the bench for the tests as back up that are not selected. And i can garauntee you this goes beyond merely my personal opinion.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Nov 2 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Round robin thingy? i'm assuming you're talking about the emerging Boks?[/b]

Nahhh thats not it. I was talking about the tri-nations of course .

So a few squad players got left behind. Not that big a deal really.

 

[Boggle]

What really gets me is that Ralepelle is -captaining- the side, I knew Div was gonna pick him even though there are at least 4 -much- better players in the position, but to then give him captaincy as well ?

I'm honestly ******, just no other way to describe it.

 

[Juan VdS]

I'm not even going to explain why Ralepelle shouldn't be captain. Honestly, I agree with the inclusion of black players, but we've got to acknowledge that there are very few right now that stand out. The racial quota should be approached AFTER having groomed black players accordingly. :%#%#:

And Earl Rose... EARL ROSE?!

 

[stormer2010]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Nov 2 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Nov 2 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Round robin thingy? i'm assuming you're talking about the emerging Boks?[/b]

Nahhh thats not it. I was talking about the tri-nations of course .

So a few squad players got left behind. Not that big a deal really.
[/b][/quote]

Very cute. Bet you would be ****** if for a developent tour most of your best players gets chosen (fair enough) but then looking towards the future players like, say, Keith Matthews gets picked ahead of Tommy Bowe and Kearns even though O'Driscoll is there, but right across the board.

PS; Bad example I know but my knowledge of Irish rugby ends after the regular test players thus I have no idea who Keith Matthews is but imagine a player leapfrogging 5 talented players into second spot in just about every jersey. This is what SA fans are dealing with.

 

[stormer2010]

This 2 years out from a WC and key players possibly being unavailable or off form if not in the retirement home. Thus it is imperative to blood he most promising reserves if only for worst case scenarios and leaving your replacement as coach a legacy to work with.

 

[stormer2010]

Guess it comes down to the blatant thievery of the honor of playing for your country by gifting spots to the undeserving in Earl Rose, Alistar Hargreaves, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Davon raubenheimer and Bandise Maku and the dubious inclusion of Heini Adams where there are soooooo much more deserving players.

But, I guess, lets be glad that some of the desrving players did get a call up and in a squad of 37 not everyone will get game time. But then again, Rose starting at fullback and Ralepelle captaining a Springbok squad blows my mind even if only in the midweek games..

Thats my rant and I will keep my mouth (figuratively of course) shut from here on out.

 

[shazbooger]

Jesus your angry. You should get over to the religion thread

Nahhh I thought you guys were going for the Grand Slam up here no? Is so, then I dont see the problem. Playing a complete second string against Leicester is hardly worth getting pished about is it?

Then again, it sounds like it did before the Lions tour, and the Tri-Nations but you all won and were happy. Maybe your coach isnt half as bad as you think?

 

[Incredible Schalk]

Thank god he didnt select Hendro Scholtz

 

[Steve-o]

I've been avoiding this thread...

My thoughts on the selections is: ...Sigh...

We will not see a Bok team picked on merit for the next 50 years, at least for these NH tours. If anything PdV is keeping the tradition of capping token black players. Jake White capped Bevin Fortuin, Hilton Lobberts, Chilliboy Ralepelle, Eddie Andrews, Solly Tybilika, those are the ones I can remember. All of which are ****, so **** that none are over 30 years old but are completely off the radar. None of them play for a premier division CC side, except Chiliboy.

But then just to throw everyone off he picks Hougaard and Hargreaves, to top it all off he picks Heinke van der Merwe who hasn't played since April. Seriously?!

Oh well I guess all coaches can have some favourites. Beside PdV is going the same way about things Jake White did. In 2006 Jake took over a highly experimental side, 2 years before the WC. Now PdV is doing it. He seems to have a plan. after all he did pick the strongest side for most of the TN, no one can argue that. Although it took the suspension of Burger and an injury to Jacobs which forced him to choose Brussow and Fourie.

Some news:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Pierre Spies has undergone a finger operation and will miss the Springboks’ three-Test tour of Europe.

Spies sustained the injury in Monday’s training session in Johannesburg. He will be replaced by Jean Deysel in the touring squad, but his No 8 position is likely to go to Ryan Kankowski.

This news may open the door for Heinrich Brussow, whose inclusion in the midweek side to face Leicester suggested he would not play in the Test against France. But with Spies ruled out, Brussow may join Schalk Burger and Kankowski in the starting back row.[/b]

Source

Again it took an injury for PdV to pick the right man, unfortunately it took Spies to give Deysel his rightful chance. It's insane that Raubenheimer got picked, it's truly a mind f**k. I don't think people from other countries realize how far this guy is down the pecking order. The Cheetahs, who can pick him, don't want him because they have 5 better loose forwards than him. He is like the 6th pick in the Free State alone.

ANYWAY here's the team for Leicester:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Springbok XV - 15 Earl Rose, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 13 Juan de Jongh, 2 Wynand Olivier, 11 Jongi Nokwe, 10 Ruan Pienaar, 9 Heini Adams, 8 Ashley Johnson, 7 Dewald Potgieter, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle ©, 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Heinke van der Merwe, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Davon Raubenheimer, 20 Francois Hougaard, 21 Meyer Bosman, 22 Riaan Viljoen.[/b]

 

[stormer2010]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Nov 2 2009, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Jesus your angry. You should get over to the religion thread

Then again, it sounds like it did before the Lions tour, and the Tri-Nations but you all won and were happy. Maybe your coach isnt half as bad as you think?[/b]

We are an angry people. What can I say. The coach is a tool. Tools are often useful but they are still tools.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Nov 2 2009, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

quote]
Source


ANYWAY here's the team for Leicester:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

Springbok XV - 15 Earl Rose, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 13 Juan de Jongh, 2 Wynand Olivier, 11 Jongi Nokwe, 10 Ruan Pienaar, 9 Heini Adams, 8 Ashley Johnson, 7 Dewald Potgieter, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle ©, 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Heinke van der Merwe, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Davon Raubenheimer, 20 Francois Hougaard, 21 Meyer Bosman, 22 Riaan Viljoen.[/b]

[/b][/quote]

Very average front row and a back three that will in all probability bleed silly points. Rose is sure to score a try, yes but is a very generous guy and is sure to gift the opposition 20 points. With Nokwe there to cover Rose's lack of defence that is sure to increase to 30 points. Ndungane is a solid enough player but seriously, I can outsprint him (and I'm a lock forward) and he is supposed to be our fourth choice wing. Although I would have prefered someone else in some positions, the rest are quality, though (although I don't rate Pienaar as an international flyhalf, beggars can't be choosers I guess).

 

[Jer1cho]

Finally! Ryan Kankowski is going to start in the number 8 jersey!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, Burger + Brussouw + Kankowski = GG

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Nov 3 2009, 04:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The coach is a tool. Tools are often useful but they are still tools.[/b]

Damn good point.

On the Backrow. Now dont start freaking out here but while I acknowledge the ability of Burger, Brussow and Kankowski. Do you think you may miss the physicality of Spies in his roaming "Ruck Inspector" role? Is this somthing you would expect Kankowski to do in his place?

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Nov 3 2009, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Damn good point.

On the Backrow. Now dont start freaking out here but while I acknowledge the ability of Burger, Brussow and Kankowski. Do you think you may miss the physicality of Spies in his roaming "Ruck Inspector" role? Is this somthing you would expect Kankowski to do in his place?[/b]

Yeah we will, though i think Burger would be utilized in this role in Spies' absence. Kankowski is a running 8. He is very similar to the kind of player Zinzan Brooke was. He is easily as fast as Spies, and has a very good running game. I rather like this combination. A lot. Burger has a lot to prove, and i hope he plays his old game.

 

[Steve-o]

Call me cynical, but i detect a hint of sarcasm in the "ruck inspector" tag. Kankowski gets more involved in the rough stuff if that's what you're asking. I'd also say he more of a rugby brain than Spies, with better skills to boot. Basically he is the better player

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Nov 4 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Call me cynical, but i detect a hint of sarcasm in the "ruck inspector" tag. Kankowski gets more involved in the rough stuff if that's what you're asking. I'd also say he more of a rugby brain than Spies, with better skills to boot. Basically he is the better player [/b]

Amen.

My God, SA lose Spies, Juan Smith and the coach has drawn names out of a hat for the reserve flankers, yet the test backrow will still be in-f******-sane!

 

[shazbooger]

Yeah I was just being a bit playful with that one (Irish rugby sayings: a ruck inspector avoids getting involved in the physical and a mushroom picker is a back that does the same). But on a serious note I dont think he's small but had Kankowski got the physical presence required? I am quite happy to admit I'm talking in ignorance of him here but from what little Ive seen hes a fantastic runner, and good support player but I dont remember him mixing it up well in the tight.

Then again with a front five like yours I spose you could do without it easily enough.

 

[stormer2010]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Nov 3 2009, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah I was just being a bit playful with that one (Irish rugby sayings: a ruck inspector avoids getting involved in the physical and a mushroom picker is a back that does the same). But on a serious note I dont think he's small but had Kankowski got the physical presence required? I am quite happy to admit I'm talking in ignorance of him here but from what little Ive seen hes a fantastic runner, and good support player but I dont remember him mixing it up well in the tight.

Then again with a front five like yours I spose you could do without it easily enough.[/b]

Can't say that i've ever seen Kanko getting physical. He even tackles less than Spies and I remember him getting owned while trying to tackle that hard Italian second rower who was quite good but I never remember his name. That said, there is no better running forward in the game and his reading of the game is only second to FdP and Stefan terblanche IMO. I for one would be interested to see him have a go and give SA some extra options on attack but have serious questions about his ability to contribute if we are up against the ropes and the French have just as mean a forward pack.

Sharks fans must be really looking forward to this tour now that Kanko will get a start and that Deysel has been called up.

 

[bristol-iain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opperstopper @ Nov 2 2009, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Where is WP Nel?

Brandise Maku? EARL ROSE?

EARL ROSE?

Where is Mapoe? Where is Sarel Pretorius?





Springbok team vs Leicester Tigers

1 Gurthro Steenkamp, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle (Captain), 3 Jannie du Plessis, 4 Danie Rossouw, 5 Andries Bekker, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 7 Dewald Potgieter, 8 Ashley Johnson, 9 Heini Adams, 10 Ruan Pienaar, 11 Jongi Nokwe, 12 Wynand Olivier, 13 Juan de Jongh, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 15 Earl Rose. Reserves: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Heinke van der Merwe, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Davon Raubenheimer, 20 Francois Hougaard, 21 Meyer Bosman, 22 Riaan Viljoen.

Ruan Pienaar at 10...

Looks like Adi Jacobs is going to start at 12...

I've got a bad feeling, a really really bad feeling. I think I'm going to start supporting someone else.[/b]

The greatest name in the world ever. Graced my facebook for a fair while.

 

[Jer1cho]

It's not his real name though... And i played with him at school.