Scotland inquest

[Saltire Caley fan]

I am not sure where to post this so I've put it here, if its in the wrong place then feel free to move it to the correct section of the forum .

Anyway, this is the place for all Scotland fans to have their say on where we go from here.

Imho, the first thing we need to ask is, what next for Gregor Townsend? For me, it is simple, he has to carry the can for this and either do the honourable thing and resign, or the SRU have to have the guts to sack him.

I think we already know that Greig Laidlaw is close to retiring so I am wondering who could be next, plus, are there any prospects coming up that could improve us.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

...World Cup forum is no longer the place for Scottish chat

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Way to hit someone while they're down. But yeah, general rugby would be a better place.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, you better hurry then with your project players from South Africa, France already started recruited our schoolboys...

 

[unrated]

They could have won had they picked Huw Jones in the squad

 

[BobbyM]

Scotland will continue to operate at a huge disadvantage to other tier 1 nations due to playing population. The recent performances (games against England aside) won't have inspired many youngsters to switch from football.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Sent home by the Cherry Blossoms ta think again.....

 

[bushytop]

seppuku!

 

[MikeTheNative]

It does seem to be a case of too much too soon for Townsend in regards to being test head coach. It's a gamble that could have paid off for the SRU but it hasn't and I would say that Scotland has got worse the past few years.

 

[BobbyM]

It does seem to be a case of too much too soon for Townsend in regards to being test head coach. It's a gamble that could have paid off for the SRU but it hasn't and I would say that Scotland has got worse the past few years.

We have got worst in last couple of years. In hindsight changing coach during the 4 year cycle was a mistake.

 

[MikeTheNative]

We have got worst in last couple of years. In hindsight changing coach during the 4 year cycle was a mistake.

I can see why they did it, but it clearly hasn't worked. Now what's the next step? After throwing all their eggs in the Townsend basked I think he has to stay, but perhaps a more experienced coach to help him out would benefit?

 

[Reiser99]

Scotland will continue to operate at a huge disadvantage to other tier 1 nations due to playing population. The recent performances (games against England aside) won't have inspired many youngsters to switch from football.

Isn't there an issue that Rugby isn't widely played at school in Scotland and players come from only a few schools where it's played properly. I may be wrong though.

 

[SamYeager270]

Isn't there an issue that Rugby isn't widely played at school in Scotland and players come from only a few schools where it's played properly. I may be wrong though.

Whether or not that's the case is there not a fair number of eligible players playing south of the (hard?) border that Sturgeon wants to put in place?

 

[BobbyM]

Whether or not that's the case is there not a fair number of eligible players playing south of the (hard?) border that Sturgeon wants to put in place?

Not sure this is where one wants to get into a debate on the merits of Scottish independence, but you are correct that there is a wide Scottish diaspora (including a significant number of people living in England) who would be eligible for Scotland.

On Reiser's point there are indeed only a few schools that offer rugby, and these are generally fee paying. I went to a "bog standard comp" type school where we had a football team and that was it, so to play I went to my local club. There was a hope a couple of years ago that the improving rugby side, combined with the shocking state of Scottish football (Celtic aside), would lead to more kids choosing to play rugby, but not sure if that's translated.

There are also issues in terms of coaching availability in schools. School sports teams have regressed following McCrone across all sports with far more demand than supply, and the education funding is not targeted currently at developing state schools rugby.

 

[Reiser99]

Whether or not that's the case is there not a fair number of eligible players playing south of the (hard?) border that Sturgeon wants to put in place?

I get that, but it's not really the basis for a sustainable model. Rely of Scottish descendants to return home and play. Just as an example if Brad Shields had genuinely had a shot at being an All Black regular, rather than on the fringes I have no doubt he would have stayed in NZ, rather than coming to England. The majority of players you are likely to get are the players who weren't good enough for other countries.

 

[Rinkadink]

Scotland will continue to operate at a huge disadvantage to other tier 1 nations due to playing population.

But they also spend way more per player, I think there's a sweet spot between the two. For example at the other end of the scale England are spending too little per player.

Last time I saw that data was a few years back so it may have changed but I have my doubts.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I spraffed about the backs in the game thread. The forwards just seem soft and limp for much of the tournament. No intensity other than Ritchie, no thrill in the collision other than possibly Bradbury and Brown. It reminds me of Vern's infamous hunting expedition and you can see why he wanted to toughen them up on recent evidence. The only Scotland forward of the past decade that could consistently dominate the contact area was Jason White.

Some of these same players seem a lot more physical in an Edinburgh shirt and this was a big under-performance when you factor in the performance of the two Pro sides (admittedly there are imports in both sides but the Scottish sides are now head and shoulders above three of the Welsh sides).

 

[Reiser99]

I spraffed about the backs in the game thread. The forwards just seem soft and limp for much of the tournament. No intensity other than Ritchie, no thrill in the collision other than possibly Bradbury and Brown. It reminds me of Vern's infamous hunting expedition and you can see why he wanted to toughen them up on recent evidence. The only Scotland forward of the past decade that could consistently dominate the contact area was Jason White.

Some of these same players seem a lot more physical in an Edinburgh shirt and this was a big under-performance when you factor in the performance of the two Pro sides (admittedly there are imports in both sides but the Scottish sides are now head and shoulders above three of the Welsh sides).

Biggest problem for Scotland for years has been consistency. How many times do they give 1 or 2 big performances where everyone talks them up and then they go flat again. Forwards especially and they set the platform for the backs. It's no good getting hyped when it's do or die time, because if it goes wrong like on Sunday that's it. There was also a lot of discussion during the match about why they weren't fired up for Ireland. I'm not saying they weren't but in someways they are almost French like in not knowing which Scottish players will turn up.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50035984

Good article from Tom English on BBC.

 

[Leinster Fan]

The reality is that they really aren't that good, especially up front. Some nice backs, true, but the service isn't there. No one has a serious chance at a world cup with Dell and Thompson starting. Watson was a big loss, true, but the rest of that backrow is pretty abject (Ritchie was alright against Japan to be fair). Second row is the same, Jonny Gray might not miss tackles but he isn't terrifying anyone with his impact in said tackles either.

Some of decisions were just bizarre though. Persisting with a horribly out of sorts Seymour ahead of some genuinely exciting players like Graham and Kinghorn. The whole mess at centre (not helped by a complete lack of decent options). Making McInally captain and then dropping him for the deciding game against Japan is mind-boggling. As far as I can tell they've had three different captains in as many years. Getting rid of Cotter for Townsend is on the same level as Ireland sacking Gatland for Eddie O'f**ing Sullivan.

But as I say, there's no point having too much of an inquest because most of it comes down the fact that most of the Scottish squad is not particularly good at rugby.