Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Oct 8, 2018.
^^^^ Basically this.
I haven't check this at all so please correct me if I'm wrong but I think the non-signed Boks got released? All the signed boks are resting, makes sense if true.
Edit: Makes sense from a contractual perspective, not a logic perspective.
So Rassie will announce his EOYT squad after the Currie Cup final this weekend.
The Beast is out of contention, which indicates the Kitshoff (brieklig) will be our starting loosehead prop, and might be Thomas Du Toit's chance to get some game time.
Rassie has a training group of 20 so far, which includes Lood De Jager and Duane Vermeulen in the group.
Then the rumour mill is already turning with reports that Cobus Reinach and Gio Aplon will also join the Boks. So the question is who else might be a surprize inclusion/exclusion??
The 20-man training group in Stellenbosch as per Supersport:
Schalk Brits (Hooker, Unattached, 11, 5 - 1t)
Lood de Jager (Lock, Vodacom Blue Bulls, 36, 20 - 4t)
Pieter-Steph du Toit (Flank / Lock, DHL Western Province, 42, 20 - 4t)
Eben Etzebeth (Lock, DHL Western Province, 73, 15 - 3t)
Steven Kitshoff (Prop, DHL Western Province, 33, 5 - 1t)
Siya Kolisi (Flank, DHL Western Province, 37, 25 - 5t)
Frans Malherbe (Prop, DHL Western Province, 25, 0)
Malcolm Marx (Hooker, Xerox Golden Lions, 20, 20 - 4t)
Trevor Nyakane (Prop, Vodacom Blue Bulls, 37, 5 - 1t)
RG Snyman (Lock, Honda Heat, Japan, 8, 0)
Duane Vermeulen (No. 8, Kubota Spears, Japan, 42, 15 – 3t)
Warren Whiteley (No. 8, Xerox Golden Lions, 21, 15 - 3t)
Damian de Allende (Centre, DHL Western Province, 33, 20 - 4t)
Aphiwe Dyantyi (Wing, Xerox Golden Lions, 9, 30 - 6t)
André Esterhuizen (Centre, Munakata Sanix Blues, Japan, 5, 0)
Elton Jantjies (Flyhalf, Xerox Golden Lions, 29, 223 - 2t, 42c, 43p)
Jesse Kriel (Centre, Vodacom Blue Bulls, 36, 50 - 10t)
Embrose Papier (Scrumhalf, Vodacom Blue Bulls, 4, 0)
Handré Pollard (Flyhalf, Vodacom Blue Bulls, 35, 293 - 3t, 55c, 53p, 3d)
Ivan van Zyl (Scrumhalf, Vodacom Blue Bulls, 3, 0)
How many players is allowed to be in the combined/final squad
I think the final squad will be 31 players, that's usually the squad for the EOYT. Unless Rassie picks a bigger squad to have more players part of the group in preparation for next year's WC.
Based on the training group announced, there are a few interesting observations:
no Bongi Mbonambi - Maybe Bismarck will get a call up?
no Franco Mostert
only 2 inside centres and 1 outside centre - Perhaps a return of Jan Serfontein?
Only 1 Winger/Fullback.
There's a lot of positions open for the taking, the question is why didn't Rassie select some of the fringe players for the squad as well?
Think Bongi wasn't picked because he is playing the Currie Cup Final, along with Notshe and Wilco Louw. No Sharks were picked and the Western Province players who have been picked aren't playing Currie Cup.
LH: Steven Kitsoff/ Trevor Nyakane
TH: Frans Malherbe / Wilcow Louw / Coenie or TdT
HK: Marx/ Brits / Mbonambi
Locks: Eben/ Lood / Snyman / Mosert
LFs: PSDT/ Kolisi / Vermulen / Whiteley
SH: Papier / van Zyl / Faf de Klerk
FH: Pollard / Jantjies / Willemse
Cntrs: DDA / AE / Kriel
Wngs: Dyantyi / Nkosi
FBs: Le Roux
OK so that's more or less how the squad is filled out, lets use Heineken's number of 31 (sensible) I'm aware we have a little leeway here in terms of PSDT and Nyakane possible covering two positions.
So we need 11 more players to fill out the squad, I've added in the fairly obvious inclusions that have missed out due to overseas or currie cup inclusions, in Italics.
I think we can be fairly certain the people I've included in Italics will get selected so (Louw/Mbonambi/Coenie OR TDT/Mostert/de Klerk / Willemse/le Roux/Nkosi) that brings our total up to 28.
That means in all likelihood:
1 More spot for a loosie
1 More spot for a back.
1 More spot for either a tight forward or a back.
My guess would be Notshe/Kolbe/Leyds
JLDP has a big chance as well, as does another prop (although I'm not sure who).
The story with Mostert:
When we go on tour and we use the 31 man - squad, we usually take:
5 loose forwards
5 back three
The but we score usually with utility players to make up for areas we might have a problem such as scrumhalf, flyhalf and maybe loose forwards.
We know that Willie Le Roux, Faf De Klerk and Francois Louw will not feature, and my guess is that Mostert will also not be available as he's now at Gloucester (Unless Ackerman releases him).
I hope that both Thomas Du Toit and Coenie gets called up. Both of them can play either prop position and is fitter than Nyakane at the moment in any case.
PSDT can cover Lock and Flanker and with Lood in the squad, I think Rassie might go for another loose forward (seems like Marco Van Staden will miss the cut this time).
Damian Willemse looks like he's also in line for a call, if he manages to get through the final without injury.
I think the wildcards will be in the backline though. Gio Aplon, Cheslin Kolbe, Jan Serfontein, Frans Steyn, Pat Lambie & JP Pietersen could all be in for a shout.
Are we sure Willie / Faf / Mostert / Louw won't feature? I heard that it's only the England game when their clubs can choose not to release them, as it falls out the international window.
Willie is a definite no: https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Rug...-is-not-available-for-boks-euro-tour-20181009
Faf, Mostert and Louw are still uncertainties.
But I think Rassie might use this opportunity to give others a chance.
There's talk that Sale didn't recall Faf during the off weeks in the rugby championship under the agreement that he'll be rested during the November internationals (he's not had an off season in two years, going straight from Super rugby to premiership to June internationals to rugby championship back to premiership).
That said, if he's named there's nothing we could do to stop him (bar the England game), and I doubt we would - Diamond has always been pretty vocal about being more than happy to release players for international duty (even campaigned to the PRL to allow Dwayne peel to play for the barbarians outside of the window, but they refused)
With Faf and Mostert out (probably) there is three players i really want to see in the squad.
Reinach and the du Preez twins. I dont know where this Aplon rumours are coming from but its ludicrous and downright stupid. The guy is 36 and playing in Japan, if he couldnt make it at his peak why is Springbok rugby so weak now that he can make it. so i think this is fake. We have Kolbe now dont need Aplon.
The team i would like to realistically see line up, by realistic i mean what Rassie might actually go for.
Also is seems Frans Steyn is injured, hes not even playing for Montpellier. but how good would he have worked in that 15 slot??
15. Fassi or Willemse
3. T. du Toit
I really like Fassi, I can understand the hype from the Sharks coaching and development team about him. Before the Currie Cup even started, there was an interview with Dick Muir where they asked him who has impressed him during the off - season, and he said Fassi.
The Du Preez twins are certainly also worth the shout, But I don't think both of them will get the call. Especially now that both Whiteley and Vermeulen are back.
Thats exactly the thing, and it shows how cruel life can be sometimes.
Dan has been playing much better than JL this year, especially since JL has been injured. But as you mentioned Whiteley and Vermeulen are waiting at Nr 8 and since Dan is the 8 he probably wont get selected. His brother who is still warming the bench at the Sharks after his recovery will most likely get the call just because he is a flanker. Both are equal in talent, Dan is on better form but JL will get the call if any of them...
And the other problem is that PSDT basically cemented his place at no. 7 now for the boks. It's hard to see someone being selected ahead of him. But the question is more about back-up for 6 & 7. If either Kolisi or PSDT gets injured, we will have to look at guys like JLDP, Marco van Staden, Notshe, Kobus Wiese and Dan Du Preez...
Hate to be contrarian but in my opinion Jldp is potentially a world class talent. Dan is just a good player.
I was just thinking that with Mostert likely out there would be gap for him to return to lock which is still his natural position. So it would be a choice between JldP and de Jager.
If de Jager is included PsdT moves to Flank, but if they use him as a lock then there would be space for another flank, and why not one who is adequate in the lineout?
But why move PSDT to back to lock, when he's played his best rugby at flanker all season? I think with Lood back in the mix, it would be wise to keep PSDT at flanker and use the tall pieces of timber in RG Snyman and Lood De Jager in the lock positions, we will then have more lineout options and be able to be more competitive in the wetter conditions up north.
Mapoe's inclusion makes it 4 specialist centers in the squad - seems highly unlikely that Serf or Steyn will feature on this tour now.
Separate names with a comma.