Springbok watch

[TRF_stormer2010]

So with a 1/4 of the regular fixtures (bar those teams who had a bye already) behind us who are the new lads that have put up a hand to sneak into a Bok berth and how has the form of current Bokke been?

I have been impressed by:

Prop
+ Morne Mellett, Werner Kruger and the Beast have been the best IMo but no stand-outs for me and the Bulls duo did struggle against the Crusader's scrum
- Pat Cilliers has struggled though maybe I just expected too much

Hooker
+ Cooper from the Sharks has looked the most promising of the newbies while Strauss has been solid enough without setting the world alight; too much rugby?
- Burden has been woeful and Deon Fourie has struggled with the line-outs and scrums though he does a lot around the park

Lock
+ Flippie has done well IMO and so has Bekker
+ Lood de Jager from the Cheetahs looks alright
- Sharks locks have been underperforming IMO

Loosies
+ Pierre Spies is building on an increase in form from last year
+ Labuschagne, Botes, Arno Botha, Jacques Engelbrecht and Philip van der Walt have impressed me
- Marcel Coetzee seems to have little impact and Brussow is the 4rth choice LF at the Cheetahs IMO

Scrumhalves
+ Sarel pretorius and Jano Vermaak the picks of the SA 9's though playing somewhat different games
- Hougaard's injury. reinach hasn't stepped up from a good Currie Cup and looks very error-prone

Flyhalves
+ Morne Steyn and Lambie look very settled ATM though lambie still doesn't have that ability to control a match and Goosen looked to have gotten better from a wobbly round 1 but
- then got injured again.
- Elton Jantjies though taking the goal kicks off of him is looking like his confidence is slowly returning. Probably too much pressure and expectation and his dad passing away is certain to be a factor

Centers
+ Ebersohn looks a lot more solid ATM and still has that X-factor while the Bulls' Olivier and Engelbrecht seem to be enjoying the space the Bulls are creating. Mapoe looked decent as well. I'm wondering whether it's the space and time afforded to them more than the players themselves if I'm being honest.
- Frans Steyn for being fat though he is trying hard, maybe too hard? Take a page out of Pierre Spies' book and lose the excess weight; leaner is better!
- Stormers' unimaginative midfield for not being able to unleash our elusive back 3

Wings
+ Habana looked hungry before injury and went looking for the ball; good old Habana. A little off ITO execution though
+ Sergeal Petersen; what pace and I'd love for our other wingers to show his willingness and intent
- nothing spectacular from our wings when you look at the game breakers in NZ; Savea, Gear, Masaga, Poki, Ranger etc etc all seem to be able to score from nowhere. Are we suffering for not choosing power wingers over pure pace? Our 15's also don't compare in the game-breaking department.

Fullbacks
- nothing special with Kirchner probably the pick of the bunch. SA has not had a good 15 since Montgomery in 2007! Taute and Ludik probably the two with the best chance to impress but Ludik has lost some form it seems and Taute has had limited chances to date.

General
+ Cheetahs and Bulls travelling well (apart from the Crusaders getting up and thrashing an underperforming Bulls team)
+ Kings defense keeping them in games
- Stormers and Sharks look uninspired
- injuries. We are already missing (and have been missing) Alberts, J Goosen, J Smith, S Burger, B Basson, B Habana, E Etzebeth, B du Plessis, J du Plessis, F Hougaard though thankfully Taute and De Jongh are returning and it seems like Flip vd Merwe is alright but I'm just listing Bok squad members off the top of my head!! Too many. (Dean Greyling not included)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It so pathetic that I'm talking with myself.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Props: no one in particular, Mallet no bad for a debu season but Beast was manhandled last weekend (by an Ausie). Only Coenie at LH now is up to par, maybe Daywalker from Stormers. Second thoughts Werner Kruger is putting in a good performance
Hooker: Bandise Maku has done very well, Strauss solid as said, wanted to see Callie Visagie, F alone knows shy he was lend to the Bulls, Chiliboy okay but we all want Bissie now we know it
Locks: Same as last year - Etsebeth has birthright at 4 with Bekker, Juandre and Flippie (pitty both 5's are leaving end of season) need to blood young PSdT in
Flankers: Arno Botha miles ahead of the rest, Marcell under performing and one dimentional, Lappies the 2nd best option at present. 8th aman Dwayne and Spies making a good comeback
Scrummy: Sarel is magic and his sub Piet van Zyl second best as the rest suck
Flyhalf: Well Goose is no more so beter be Lambie, hope Jantjes regains form or we will be Steyned another season
Centre: Massive worry as Frans is pathetic and Jean just surviving, I would risk younger guys and get them experience fast - Serfontein and Jordaan - Ebersohn only good in space
Wing: Rhule shows signs of promise - Sergeal is lighting but very young lighning. Right now will stick to Basson and Mvovo/Aplon/Peterson (he also needs to wake from his slumber)
Fullback: I would play Willie le Roux ahead of anyone in SA and would look at Taute if he start using his bulk and speed a bit

 

[Gena_ZA]

It so pathetic that I'm talking with myself.

With the amount of sticky's I accidentally scrolled down and saw this

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't see Beast as having been man-handled; Alexander got away with some BS that game. Not that Beast doesn't scrum in every opportunity he gets mind you LOL. One can nly role your eyes at the scrums as is.

Bissie will walk into the side when he's up and running. Easy as that.

I am also salivating at the prospect of PS du Toit getting regular time at 5.

I'd love to see Botha and Labuschagne get in ahead of some of the other if they keep it up; at Coetzee and Potgieter's expense. With Spies, FLouw and Vermeulen rounding out the squad members.

Backs have a lot to prove still IMO so I suppose we are mostly in agreement.

 

[Draggs]

Bresler is a very limited player. I see MaraisJ+PSdT as the way forward.
Coetzee isn't hitting good form either. I honestly thought he was a bit overrated last year. A busy flanker that does everything (like Schalk) stands out, but does little in a settled team. Daniel Deysel Kanko would be my trio every day.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Bresler is a very limited player. I see MaraisJ+PSdT as the way forward.
Coetzee isn't hitting good form either. I honestly thought he was a bit overrated last year. A busy flanker that does everything (like Schalk) stands out, but does little in a settled team. Daniel Deysel Kanko would be my trio every day.

This is Springbok watch, not Sharks watch my friend, you are aware of the other teams now right

 

[Draggs]

This is Springbok watch, not Sharks watch my friend, you are aware of the other teams now right

I am aware, just pointing out things from a Sharks perspective. Meant to add more before I clicked submit, thinking I was on a different tab.
I haven't seen much of the other SA teams, sadly.

 

[freakn]

I have been impressed by:

Prop
+ Morne Mellett, Werner Kruger and the Beast have been the best IMo but no stand-outs for me and the Bulls duo did struggle against the Crusader's scrum
- Pat Cilliers has struggled though maybe I just expected too much

Honestly, I simply don't see what you and one or two other blokes imagined with regard to the the scrumming performance of the Bulls in the Crusaders match. Bar all facets of the game otherwise, I have replayed and replayed the scrums of that dreadful game (I've got a natural penchant for forward play, particularly scrimmage) and commenting on obvious inexperience in this area on the part of some bloggers, I would urge them (including you) to please have a squiz at the game again, paying particular attention to the area which is so carelessly "commented" on.
You will clearly see the pressure, particularly Owen Franks were under, his back consistently "folded" under pressure, with him scrumming in-onto the Bulls hooker, the first scrum is evidence of the misjudgment made with regard to Mellett and Kruger, who I will back you up with as showing a hand for selection. Mellett clearly handled the pressure, with his back kept straight, Kirsten, though I'd grant, had a bit of pressure piled on, but given the fact that tighthead is naturally more challenging, he coped well. Werner did well when he came back on, but with the forward pack having had a marathon sprint across the park for the whole game, trying to plug the holes ripped through the backline, I find that the Bulls scrum performed well. For the Bok Front Row, I'll put forward : 1.Beast/Mellett 2.Du Plessis/Cooper 3.Kruger, with Coenie on the bench as an impact player. What most people fail to remember is that Coenie was a Tighthead throughout his high school and junior years, 1.Mellett, 2,Cooper, 3.Coenie played together in the Junior World Cup for the Boks u.20, therefore Coenie would make a suitable choice of the Bench, since he can pack down on both sides.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Honestly, I simply don't see what you and one or two other blokes imagined with regard to the the scrumming performance of the Bulls in the Crusaders match. Bar all facets of the game otherwise, I have replayed and replayed the scrums of that dreadful game (I've got a natural penchant for forward play, particularly scrimmage) and commenting on obvious inexperience in this area on the part of some bloggers, I would urge them (including you) to please have a squiz at the game again, paying particular attention to the area which is so carelessly "commented" on.
You will clearly see the pressure, particularly Owen Franks were under, his back consistently "folded" under pressure, with him scrumming in-onto the Bulls hooker, the first scrum is evidence of the misjudgment made with regard to Mellett and Kruger, who I will back you up with as showing a hand for selection. Mellett clearly handled the pressure, with his back kept straight, Kirsten, though I'd grant, had a bit of pressure piled on, but given the fact that tighthead is naturally more challenging, he coped well. Werner did well when he came back on, but with the forward pack having had a marathon sprint across the park for the whole game, trying to plug the holes ripped through the backline, I find that the Bulls scrum performed well. For the Bok Front Row, I'll put forward : 1.Beast/Mellett 2.Du Plessis/Cooper 3.Kruger, with Coenie on the bench as an impact player. What most people fail to remember is that Coenie was a Tighthead throughout his high school and junior years, 1.Mellett, 2,Cooper, 3.Coenie played together in the Junior World Cup for the Boks u.20, therefore Coenie would make a suitable choice of the Bench, since he can pack down on both sides.

I totally agree with you and if you care to look at my post again I do say that I too think Beast, Mellett and Kruger have been the pick of the SA props. When i say that the Bulls front row struggled against the Crusaders I mean exactly that and stand by my 'careless' comment; the Bulls struggled to keep it steady on their own feed while the reverse is true for the Crusaders and penalties went the Crusaders' way whether deserved or not that is the result and conning the ref has become an essential part of prop play at the scrum even if we don't like it.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I need way more rum to get this technical but appreciate your input freakn and welcome to the forums!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Biggest problems for the Bokke (if injuries weren't forcing dodgy selections) I can see at this stage;

- no quality 15; Kirchner is solid but not inspiring, Ludik is off form and won't make the Bok squad if he doesn't turn it around soon and Taute isn't getting game time (injured and now behind Pietersen because Jantjies can't get it near the posts)
- who to pick at 9; you have Hougaard, Vermaak, Pienaar, Van Zyl and Pretorius all with a claim but no one 9 ticking all the boxes and with Lambie our most likely 10 what boxes are the most important to have ticked off?
- our encumbent centers aren't looking great so do you back 2 youngsters at this stage and take a chance for a hit or miss or stick with the JdV's, Frans Steyne and De Jonghs?

For the rest of it we're in the gravy IMO injuries and off-form selections notwithstanding.

 

[jordiev]

i see alot of people talking about 15.... but le roux.... he is amazing!

 

[sifplay]

I'd rather be Steyn'd than Jantjies. Jantjies is a huge hole at 10 and teams will sending guys in that channel whole day long exposing him which normally means the end of his carreer in this country as will go play somewhere in Europe. Steyn is the better defender and kicker out the lot. He must just stand a bit flatter. I would love to see Super Sarel at 9 get a go somewhere
9. Hougie/Sarel
10. Steyn/Ebershon (If Meyer has the balls)
11. JP Pietersen
12. De Villiers
13. Robert Ebersohn
14. Mapoe
15. Taute/Sideshow Bob

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'll reserve my judgement for now on who should play for the boks, its way too early to make picks. Sarel is one such a player that can have a few good games and then falter. Hougie is injured and we haven't seen much from him yet. My pick for scrummie would be Cobus Reinach even though he hasn't shown much this year.

At fullback we have shortcomings yes, but we have guys that could step up in the coming games.

You guys see centre as a concern, i see it as the most exciting area of things to come. Wynand Olivier, Jan Serfontein and Francois Venter battling it out just for the Bulls. De Allende, JDV and JDJ at the Stormers, Whitehead, Steyn and Bosman at the sharks and then guys like Robert Ebersohn and JJ Engelbrecht also thrown in the mix. There's so much pressure on the guys within their own teams that by the time the Bok call comes, the guys will be ready to step up. Just wait and see

 

[Draggs]

9 Reinach/Groom
10 Lambie/Goosen
11 Pietersen
12 Ebersohn
13 de Jongh
14 Aplon
15 le Roux

TRIESTRIESTRIES

 

[sifplay]

9 Reinach/Groom
10 Lambie/Goosen
11 Pietersen
12 Ebersohn
13 de Jongh
14 Aplon
15 le Roux

TRIESTRIESTRIES

lol although their defense would be a bit weak IMO Aplon and Le Roux suspect on defense all over

 

[jordiev]

lol although their defense would be a bit weak IMO Aplon and Le Roux suspect on defense all over

le roux is pure magic though

 

[Draggs]

lol although their defense would be a bit weak IMO Aplon and Le Roux suspect on defense all over

I suppose I didn't really say who the tries were for.