Springboks A Different Team At Home

[ranger]

Yeah, relative to the other competitions at least. Soccer has other competitions that are very important. Quite a few soccer fans have a club before country approach that you don't find very often in rugby. Certainly in soccer "the world cup is not everything" because competitions like the European Championship, Champions League and Premier League are all massive events. In rugby, however, it seems that winning the world cup is all that really counts. No one goes crazy when their team wins the NPC or Super 14. The All Blacks can win the Tri Nations but people don't seem to celebrate that much when we win it. Everything is almost done to build for world cups.

Hmmm... No not really

 

[lucky number 7]

It's not soccer ffs, the world cup is not everything and winning it does not make you world champion alone.

Im pretty sure it does actually...

 

[Haysie]

The FIFA World Cup is obviously a far more prestigious and a far harder competition. All I meant was that the number one focus for just about every rugby fan is the world cup with their club or the Tri Nations in far second place. In soccer, I think there is a sizable amount of fans who either prefer another competition to the world cup or at least have another competition in second place. I wasn't dir

I disagree. Any team can score one goal, even by a mistake from the other team. All it would take then is for the other team not to score a goal at all, and you win.
This is far easier than a game like rugby in which points are more forthcoming, and more than one "score" is needed.

 

[nickdnz]

It's apples and oranges. Obviously the Fifa World Cup is the most prestigious sporting prize in the world. Most countires would go mental over winning the Soccer World Cup than the Rugby World Cup. However to New Zealanders, I'm sure if we win the world cup here, we will go just as mental as a soccer nation winning the Soccer World Cup (well, maybe not as mental, but as mental as a New Zealander can get).

 

[tinchy17]

They've had so many players cited and banned now that's probably affected them

 

[Amobokoboko]

They've had so many players cited and banned now that's probably affected them

Most likely, no the best way to stimulate their moral

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Bismarck du Plessis, Pietersen and du Preez injured, Steyn not selected and now Fourie and JdV banned and Mtawarire not available because of the ANC. Bakkies Botha is easily replaced by Andries Bekker. That's 7 players missing of whom 5 from the start.

But still... That's not the reason we lost. Mr. Pringles keeps on putting players in wrong positions and beating the morale down to pulp

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think what it shows is that stacking a couple of club teams is to the detriment of the country as a whole.. Sure they have S14 trophies to show off now, but they have written off the lions and cheetahs in the process, this is what happens when you only have two teams of players to choose from



Seriously?

Don't write off the Cheetahs. They made a good comeback when Juan Smith came back and beat the Bulls (minus their stars but still a good team) this weekend. The Sharks had the best end of the seaon in the S14 and were very unlucky not to win more games early on for various reasons. Lions are in a sorry state but we also have the Griquas who are a quality side with 2 or 3 guys that wouldn't look out of sorts in a Bok jersey.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Bismarck du Plessis, Pietersen and du Preez injured, Steyn not selected and now Fourie and JdV banned and Mtawarire not available because of the ANC. Bakkies Botha is easily replaced by Andries Bekker. That's 7 players missing of whom 5 from the start.

But still... That's not the reason we lost. Mr. Pringles keeps on putting players in wrong positions and beating the morale down to pulp

Agreed. I'd like to add..


Heinrich Brussouw - injured
Juan Smith - given some time off (father passed away recently) but is carrying his great S14 from through in the CC.
Lionel Mapoe - injured (not a Bok, I know but there were rumors before he got injured)
Andries Bekker - injured (I wouldn't put him in the team alongside Matfield, though; someone has to hit the rucks)
Jannie du Plessis - injured

That makes:

Tendai Mtawarira
Bismarck du Plessis
Jannie du Plessis
Bakkies Botha
Andries Bekker
Heinrich Brussouw
Juan Smith
-
Fourie du Preez
-
Lionel Mapoe
Jean de villiers
Jacque Fourie
JP Pieteren
Francois Steyn


LOL even without an encumbant flyhalf or no.8 this side would probably stick it to the Bok side that will run out in our next fixture.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ernst Joubert, Duane Vermeulen or Jean Deysel at 8 and a young gun at 10. Either Lionel Cronje, Conrad Hoffmann or Patrick Lambie. Johan Gossen still too young.

 

[tinchy17]

Ernst Joubert, Duane Vermeulen or Jean Deysel at 8 and a young gun at 10. Either Lionel Cronje, Conrad Hoffmann or Patrick Lambie. Johan Gossen still too young.

Ernst Joubert is the best back rower EVER!

 

[Teh Mite]

There's something horribly wrong when a Saracens fan says that sentence about anyone except Richard Hill.

 

[Seaton]

Ernst Joubert, Duane Vermeulen or Jean Deysel at 8 and a young gun at 10. Either Lionel Cronje, Conrad Hoffmann or Patrick Lambie. Johan Gossen still too young.

Indeed, you don't see many players going from playing at school level to international level in the space of half a season.
Definitely looks a good prospect, and could well be heavily involved for the cheetahs next year

 

[alexrugby]

i agree .but i my opinion the major factor has been the absence in the squad .du preez,Francois Steyn .Botta ...

Boks had refreshed team but...

Didn't help ))))

 

[JaredBenjamin97]

15. Francois Steyn
14. JP Pietersen
13. Wynand Olivier (Jaque Fourie is Suspended)
12. Juan De Jong
11. Bryan Habana
10. Morne Steyn
9. Francois Hougaard
8. Pierre Spies
7. Francois Louw
6. Schalk Burger
5. Victor Matfield
4. Danie Rossouw
3. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Bismark Du Plessis
1. Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira

16. Ruan Pienaar
17. Jean De Villiers
18. Juan Smith
19. Dewald Potgieter
20. Gary Botha
21. Coenie Oosthuizen
22. Gio Aplon

 

[ranger]

Don't write off the Cheetahs. They made a good comeback when Juan Smith came back and beat the Bulls (minus their stars but still a good team) this weekend. The Sharks had the best end of the seaon in the S14 and were very unlucky not to win more games early on for various reasons. Lions are in a sorry state but we also have the Griquas who are a quality side with 2 or 3 guys that wouldn't look out of sorts in a Bok jersey.

Currie Cup form never seems to really translate into Super 14 form for mine.. its just a different setup. The Cheetahs are slow improvers, but you have to admit that the players are not being spread around the S14 teams evenly. Its a bit of a joke how stacked the Bulls are compared to the rest of the saffa sides, then Jauque Fourie joining the Stormers? thats just ridiculous, it doesn't help anyone.
South Africa have left the Lions to rot into possibly the worst team in S14 history, then they expect to be awarded another franchise for the Spears? come on..

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, the problem with the Lions is that the people in their neighborhood are more eager to go to see the Bulls play. It would be good if the Lions would be replaced by the Griquas for several reasons. The Griquas are perfoming better in the Currie Cup lately than the Lions and they don't have heavy competition in the area.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

15. Francois Steyn
14. JP Pietersen
13. Wynand Olivier (Jaque Fourie is Suspended)
12. Juan De Jong
11. Bryan Habana
10. Morne Steyn
9. Francois Hougaard
8. Pierre Spies
7. Francois Louw
6. Schalk Burger
5. Victor Matfield
4. Danie Rossouw
3. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Bismark Du Plessis
1. Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira

16. Ruan Pienaar
17. Jean De Villiers
18. Juan Smith
19. Dewald Potgieter
20. Gary Botha
21. Coenie Oosthuizen
22. Gio Aplon

Currie Cup form never seems to really translate into Super 14 form for mine.. its just a different setup. The Cheetahs are slow improvers, but you have to admit that the players are not being spread around the S14 teams evenly. Its a bit of a joke how stacked the Bulls are compared to the rest of the saffa sides, then Jauque Fourie joining the Stormers? thats just ridiculous, it doesn't help anyone.
South Africa have left the Lions to rot into possibly the worst team in S14 history, then they expect to be awarded another franchise for the Spears? come on..

1 Ernst Joubert needs to come back to SA. Spies and Kanko just don't feature if the game isn't allready won. Don't know if he maybe wants to play for England ala Hendre Fourie or Brad Barritt?

2 Wynand Olivier plays at 12 and is used to play outside Steyn. De Jongh on the other hand, although currently at 12 to accommodate Fourie is a great 13 and that is where he has played most of his rugby. Wouldn't swap them. Otherwise a good looking line-up even though I feel Matfield, Spies and Habana need rest.

3 The Bulls, Stormers and Sharks have carried good Currie cup form through to the S14 since 2006 and the Cheetahs not because they have regularly lost their best players to the 3 bigger unions. This trend seems to be getting less and less destabalizing as they have only lost Lionel Mapoe as a noteworthy player recently. I expect them to have a better run at it next year although injury can leave them exposed because they don't have the depth of the Bulls and even the Stormers.

I epect the Stormers will disagree that signing Jacque Fourie doesn't help anyone. It certainly helped the Stormers. As for spreading etc I believe capitalism is the way forward and spreading players around, salary caps etc will only see our best players move North. Our best players being stacked also means young players get gametime at the other unions and then in return get included into the bigger unions untill they are full. We only had 2 teams who could win a Super series, we now have 3, we will have 4 when the Cheetahs get settled and then the next one will come while somewhere along the way, the Bulls or one of the other big unions will have to rebuild. Capitalism = growth and development, Communism = stagnation. You have to respect the market forces and with rugby no exception.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well, the problem with the Lions is that the people in their neighborhood are more eager to go to see the Bulls play. It would be good if the Lions would be replaced by the Griquas for several reasons. The Griquas are perfoming better in the Currie Cup lately than the Lions and they don't have heavy competition in the area.

You hit the nail on the head but I don't think the Griquas and Kimberley have the population to support a super frachise. I always felt the Lions missed the opportunity to tap into the biggest market in SA; the black market. I mean they are situated in Jo'burg with Soweto a stones throw away FFS! Its not curiosity that is the death of this cat but rather a lack of it. Only now that market is being very cleverly tapped by the Bulls. Reckon the Lions still have a chance if they are willing to address the unique challenges the club is facing. That and manage to keep players: Heinke v/d merwe, Ernst Joubert, Willem Alberts, Louis Ludik, Jacque Fourie etc lost in little more than a year would hit any club.

Either that or accept that the Bulls are just far to competative both on the field and off it and concentrate on developing the Kings since that is the other major untapped market; EP and Border with nearly a 3rd of the population unrepresented and massive rugby talent being lost to the area.

 

[ranger]

1 Ernst Joubert needs to come back to SA. Spies and Kanko just don't feature if the game isn't allready won. Don't know if he maybe wants to play for England ala Hendre Fourie or Brad Barritt?

2 Wynand Olivier plays at 12 and is used to play outside Steyn. De Jongh on the other hand, although currently at 12 to accommodate Fourie is a great 13 and that is where he has played most of his rugby. Wouldn't swap them. Otherwise a good looking line-up even though I feel Matfield, Spies and Habana need rest.

3 The Bulls, Stormers and Sharks have carried good Currie cup form through to the S14 since 2006 and the Cheetahs not because they have regularly lost their best players to the 3 bigger unions. This trend seems to be getting less and less destabalizing as they have only lost Lionel Mapoe as a noteworthy player recently. I expect them to have a better run at it next year although injury can leave them exposed because they don't have the depth of the Bulls and even the Stormers.

I epect the Stormers will disagree that signing Jacque Fourie doesn't help anyone. It certainly helped the Stormers. As for spreading etc I believe capitalism is the way forward and spreading players around, salary caps etc will only see our best players move North. Our best players being stacked also means young players get gametime at the other unions and then in return get included into the bigger unions untill they are full. We only had 2 teams who could win a Super series, we now have 3, we will have 4 when the Cheetahs get settled and then the next one will come while somewhere along the way, the Bulls or one of the other big unions will have to rebuild. Capitalism = growth and development, Communism = stagnation. You have to respect the market forces and with rugby no exception.

Haha do you seriously believe that! its so flawed and short sighted..
Okay, to break it down;

1)You only have 2 sides capable of winning next years tournament, the Sharks are on the decline. 9th place isn't anything to hang hopes on. Also, the Cheetahs exceeded expectations this year and got 11th place, you are kidding your self if you think SA could have 4 or even 3 ***le contenders in the next 15 years.

2)Salary caps don't make players move north, it makes them move to other teams in their own country, strengthening the nation as a whole. I dont see how it would make them leave South Africa at all?

3)"Our best players being stacked also means young players get gametime at the other unions and then in return get included into the bigger unions untill they are full" This is absolute wishfull thinking nonsense. It defies belief.. i sincerely hope as a fan of international rugby that this is not how SA aims to run their teams because its a cataclysmicly poor tactic. If you want to give a young player gametime, you do it by easing him in to a good team with no pressure on him and with talented older players to learn from. Look at Dan Carter, he was brought into a successful team to sit on the bench and watch Andrew Mehtens work, he trained with him and learned how to run a backline. Then he was slowly injected into the Crusaders backline at reserve 2nd 5, to learn from the master firsthand, he had world class players all around him so the pressure was off and he could just learn and acclimatise to professional rugby. Slowly he took over the reigns and now hes the man.
Now contrast with Andre Pretorius, argueably a more naturally talented player. Thrown into a **** team with **** players around him and noone to really learn off, he was given the starting jersey early and pretty much struggled the entire time. He made the Boks on the back of raw talent but never really grew as a footballer, look at him now.
Putting young rugby players in a no-hoper team to get raped by all and sundry has zero positive effects for the player, there is no upside to that scenario. There is a certain type of player who can rise above his shitty surroundings and still kick on to be a good footballer (Like Keiran Reid, Rene Ranger) but that is dispite his situation, not because of it. That kind of deal ruins the majority of good players that would have otherwise kicked on to greatness. Have you ever wondered why NZ has such player depth compared to SA when our player base is so much smaller? it has something to do with the communism you speak of and even more to do with not leaving teams full of players to rot.

4)Communism= Stagnation? Look at NZ, we are running a "Communist" system where we try and have 5 strong teams instead of just 2 and look where its put NZ rugby. Every one of our 5 teams have made the trip to the super rugby semi finals in the past, every one of them has superstars and All Blacks and every one of them are churning out more top flight players. You call it stagnation, i call it player depth, everyone in South Africa is making comments like "if we had FDP, Steyn, Peiterson, Smith, Brussow ect then we would be alright.." no, if you had player depth you would be alright. We have lost just as many players as you have to injury and to the NH and we destroyed you 2 games in a row. It didn't look like stagnation then it looked like 32 – 12 and 31 - 17...