I
InsaneAsylum
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Mar 6 2009, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
and they get to play against broken hill, broome and kalgoorlie
haha
and they get to play against broken hill, broome and kalgoorlie
haha
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G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Mar 6 2009, 06:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Are you stoned?
[/b][/quote]
no, just idealistic.
also, i just checked the pop. of alice springs on wikipedia and it won't fill up a stadium... so obv. not there. but it would be nice to get more abos involved in union no?
Are you stoned?
[/b][/quote]
no, just idealistic.
also, i just checked the pop. of alice springs on wikipedia and it won't fill up a stadium... so obv. not there. but it would be nice to get more abos involved in union no?
I
Incredible Schalk
Guest
It would be madness to have another South African side, their are two whipping boys and three good sides, plus it would stretch the amount of quality players even further and just hinder the SA sides overall. Another Aussie side would be a good idea, although im not sure where it could be based.
Bring back the Cats
Bring back the Cats
S
snoopy snoopy dog dog
Guest
I found these quotes interesting from other articles on the same topic:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
If O'Neill doesn't want to diminish the other franchises, he'll build the new franchise with scraps from the other Aussie teams, returning players from Europe and league converts. If the team is in Melbourne, I think O'Neill will pull out all the stops to try bring in Storm players as a way of putting "one up" on the NRL. The name recognition of these players allied with the fact that they're already based in the city where the new franchise will be placed means they'll be targeted. How big a coup would it be for the ARU (and thus a blow for the NRL) if they could add Greg Inglis and Billy Slater (for example) to the new Victoria franchise's ranks? Bring in a returning Melbourne born Rocky Elsom as team figurehead and they could begin to make headway.
I applaud whoever is pushing through the 3 conference system. It increases matches between "local" rivals which can be money spinning affairs, decreases the travel burden on South Africa (in that a lower percentage of their games will be a distance away thus losing a string of games in Australasia wont hurt as much) and more than likely opens the Super 15 up more players from countries outside Sanzar. Now bring Argentina into the new Quad Nations and I'll give these negotiations two thumbs up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-1...sies-fifth-team
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/news/20...-for-Super-team
If O'Neill doesn't want to diminish the other franchises, he'll build the new franchise with scraps from the other Aussie teams, returning players from Europe and league converts. If the team is in Melbourne, I think O'Neill will pull out all the stops to try bring in Storm players as a way of putting "one up" on the NRL. The name recognition of these players allied with the fact that they're already based in the city where the new franchise will be placed means they'll be targeted. How big a coup would it be for the ARU (and thus a blow for the NRL) if they could add Greg Inglis and Billy Slater (for example) to the new Victoria franchise's ranks? Bring in a returning Melbourne born Rocky Elsom as team figurehead and they could begin to make headway.
I applaud whoever is pushing through the 3 conference system. It increases matches between "local" rivals which can be money spinning affairs, decreases the travel burden on South Africa (in that a lower percentage of their games will be a distance away thus losing a string of games in Australasia wont hurt as much) and more than likely opens the Super 15 up more players from countries outside Sanzar. Now bring Argentina into the new Quad Nations and I'll give these negotiations two thumbs up.
W
Wally
Guest
A fifth Australian franchise will come down to Melbourne and the Gold Coast. They will have to be very careful in the way they regulate it, because losing 5 players from every current team would be devastating.
F
Fushitsusha
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 6 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Post amended,
moderator faatau82 says: These terms are deemed racist, so i am removing them.
Post amended,
moderator faatau82 says: These terms are deemed racist, so i am removing them.
G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fushitsusha @ Mar 7 2009, 05:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
F
Fushitsusha
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 7 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
[/b][/quote]
"The ironing is delicious".
I'm yet to meet an Aboriginal person who would appreciate being called an 'abo'.
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
[/b][/quote]
"The ironing is delicious".
I'm yet to meet an Aboriginal person who would appreciate being called an 'abo'.
M
melon
Guest
I agree.
Please refrain from this Ginga...you don't seem to be able to grasp the issue we have here.
Then again, i feel pitty for you. Ginger hair...HA...Alice Springs for a team?! HAHA. etc, etc.
This Glenmorangie does wonders...
Please refrain from this Ginga...you don't seem to be able to grasp the issue we have here.
Then again, i feel pitty for you. Ginger hair...HA...Alice Springs for a team?! HAHA. etc, etc.
This Glenmorangie does wonders...
D
dundeesmiffy
Guest
Racism is ghey.
I don't know, I mean I think it'd be good to have a team that involved some Argentinean players, maybe a few USA and Japanese players too, I mean it'd make up for all the PI's the Super 14 franchises are pinching. I mean, I'm sure there are some young guys that don't make cut for Super 14 franchise and might be half decent in whichever country it's in. Introducing more nationalities into the Super 14 could be some sort of Northern Hemisphere vs Southern Hemisphere coming to a head at the world cup, it'd be like a world cup. I mean not to say that countries that don't have many players that are professional are at a disadvantage but I'm sure in doing this it'd make it a bit more of a level playing ground for more teams.
I mean in football you see guys from all corners of the world plying there trade at (arguably) the top flight of the sport at club level, and if moderated properly it could benefit rugby as a whole.
I don't know, I mean I think it'd be good to have a team that involved some Argentinean players, maybe a few USA and Japanese players too, I mean it'd make up for all the PI's the Super 14 franchises are pinching. I mean, I'm sure there are some young guys that don't make cut for Super 14 franchise and might be half decent in whichever country it's in. Introducing more nationalities into the Super 14 could be some sort of Northern Hemisphere vs Southern Hemisphere coming to a head at the world cup, it'd be like a world cup. I mean not to say that countries that don't have many players that are professional are at a disadvantage but I'm sure in doing this it'd make it a bit more of a level playing ground for more teams.
I mean in football you see guys from all corners of the world plying there trade at (arguably) the top flight of the sport at club level, and if moderated properly it could benefit rugby as a whole.
G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fushitsusha @ Mar 7 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
[/b][/quote]
"The ironing is delicious".
I'm yet to meet an Aboriginal person who would appreciate being called an 'abo'.
[/b][/quote]
Ok, so I'm suggesting a team which would aid the advancement of union amongst indigenous australians, who for whatever reasons (I'm not getting into that debate) have yet to make an impact on union (as opposed to league and aussie rules).
You then pull me up for using a non-pc term.
Make your own mind up how relevant your pedantry is.
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
[/b][/quote]
"The ironing is delicious".
I'm yet to meet an Aboriginal person who would appreciate being called an 'abo'.
[/b][/quote]
Ok, so I'm suggesting a team which would aid the advancement of union amongst indigenous australians, who for whatever reasons (I'm not getting into that debate) have yet to make an impact on union (as opposed to league and aussie rules).
You then pull me up for using a non-pc term.
Make your own mind up how relevant your pedantry is.
F
Fushitsusha
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 7 2009, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
[/b][/quote]
"The ironing is delicious".
I'm yet to meet an Aboriginal person who would appreciate being called an 'abo'.
[/b][/quote]
Ok, so I'm suggesting a team which would aid the advancement of union amongst indigenous australians, who for whatever reasons (I'm not getting into that debate) have yet to make an impact on union (as opposed to league and aussie rules).
You then pull me up for using a non-pc term.
Make your own mind up how relevant your pedantry is.
[/b][/quote]
I don't think you quite get it.
Feel free suggest a team which would advance union amongst indigenous Australians... but maybe try do so without using terms like 'abo', 'coon', 'darkie' etc?
And I'm disappointed with the moderator for their lack of humour.
Continue on...
REMOVED
No?
[/b][/quote]
Please. grow up.
[/b][/quote]
"The ironing is delicious".
I'm yet to meet an Aboriginal person who would appreciate being called an 'abo'.
[/b][/quote]
Ok, so I'm suggesting a team which would aid the advancement of union amongst indigenous australians, who for whatever reasons (I'm not getting into that debate) have yet to make an impact on union (as opposed to league and aussie rules).
You then pull me up for using a non-pc term.
Make your own mind up how relevant your pedantry is.
[/b][/quote]
I don't think you quite get it.
Feel free suggest a team which would advance union amongst indigenous Australians... but maybe try do so without using terms like 'abo', 'coon', 'darkie' etc?
And I'm disappointed with the moderator for their lack of humour.
Continue on...
G
gho
Guest
To give you non-australians an idea on the population of cities of Australia:
1 Sydney, NSW 4,336,374 Waratahs - League dominated area with Union as the second sport
2 Melbourne, Vic 3,806,092 None - AFL dominated area
3 Brisbane, Qld 1,857,594 Reds - League dominated area with Union as the second sport
4 Perth, WA 1,554,769 Force - AFL dominated area with Union as second sport
5 Adelaide, SA 1,158,259 None - AFL dominated area
6 Gold Coast, Qld 583,657 None - League dominated area
7 Newcastle, NSW 523,662 None - League dominated area
8 Canberra, ACT 388,072 Brumbies - Union dominated area with League as second sport
Just by looking at the populations you can easily tell that Melbourne is the logical choice for the next team. Melbourne loves their sport, the AFL side the collingwood magpies averaged 60k average attendance in 2008. After Melbourne i think Sydney should get a second team and some decades down the track adelaide should get a team.
Check out the link for average crowds for all Australian football codes for last year, its an interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Australi...all_code_crowds
1 Sydney, NSW 4,336,374 Waratahs - League dominated area with Union as the second sport
2 Melbourne, Vic 3,806,092 None - AFL dominated area
3 Brisbane, Qld 1,857,594 Reds - League dominated area with Union as the second sport
4 Perth, WA 1,554,769 Force - AFL dominated area with Union as second sport
5 Adelaide, SA 1,158,259 None - AFL dominated area
6 Gold Coast, Qld 583,657 None - League dominated area
7 Newcastle, NSW 523,662 None - League dominated area
8 Canberra, ACT 388,072 Brumbies - Union dominated area with League as second sport
Just by looking at the populations you can easily tell that Melbourne is the logical choice for the next team. Melbourne loves their sport, the AFL side the collingwood magpies averaged 60k average attendance in 2008. After Melbourne i think Sydney should get a second team and some decades down the track adelaide should get a team.
Check out the link for average crowds for all Australian football codes for last year, its an interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Australi...all_code_crowds
T
tommowins
Guest
Melbourne does love their sport, however players do not pop out instantly. You would need 3-5 years for rugby union to be taken seriously/knowing what it is. By then a few juniors would play and a 10 year wait until any decent players come from Melbourne.
I personally don't think Australia has the depth to fufill those 10-15 years of no real rugby players coming out of Melbourne. The only reason the Force have not been steamrolled is they poached 1/2 of the up and coming Australia players. Now those players are returning home and we are seeing and will see the effects of that in the next couple of years.
I personally think we should pick another place. I don't really know one, perhaps a combined Pacific Island team. But I know that Australia do not have the rugby players to give to a new club, I think the second one within 5 years. If the Australians insist on a new club, I really beleive you should wait until there are plenty of up-and-cumming players to chuck around, right now the Force has bled Australia dry.
Oh yeah 'gho', that article is a good read, its amazing how serious AFL is. Like 40,000 people for every match.
I personally don't think Australia has the depth to fufill those 10-15 years of no real rugby players coming out of Melbourne. The only reason the Force have not been steamrolled is they poached 1/2 of the up and coming Australia players. Now those players are returning home and we are seeing and will see the effects of that in the next couple of years.
I personally think we should pick another place. I don't really know one, perhaps a combined Pacific Island team. But I know that Australia do not have the rugby players to give to a new club, I think the second one within 5 years. If the Australians insist on a new club, I really beleive you should wait until there are plenty of up-and-cumming players to chuck around, right now the Force has bled Australia dry.
Oh yeah 'gho', that article is a good read, its amazing how serious AFL is. Like 40,000 people for every match.
G
gho
Guest
You're right about the players, but rugby union is never going to get very far if we dont expand the visible professional teams. They act like massive advertisements for rugby union grass roots development. Until then i think that each Australian team should have 4-5 pacific islanders/japanese playing for us. It benefits both parties, the pacific islanders and the japanese players get world class training practices, the australian teams get some exciting players (the fans and the media love foreign players, look at how everyone loves that brazilian guy playing for adelaide united soccer team)
S
snoopy snoopy dog dog
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I think the best solution is for the 15th team to be based in Australia and, so as not to dilute the already sparse talent too much, allowing each Aussie franchise around 6 foreign players per match day 22 (that'll still leave 80 Aussies competing on matchday). Admit Argentina to an expanded 4 Nations with each team playing each other twice instead of three times as is presently the case to avoid supporter apathy and player burnout. If participating countries want to boost their coffers and also prime Hong Kong, Japan or the USA for future expansion, exhibition games like last years match in Hong Kong and this years Bledisloe Cup Tokyo test can be added to the schedule outside of the 4 Nations.
I'm not sure the USA and Japan are viable options just yet. Neither have the playing numbers to sustain a decent team (granted there would be a ton of overseas players packing out the rosters) and travel would be a huge problem.
I think the best solution is for the 15th team to be based in Australia and, so as not to dilute the already sparse talent too much, allowing each Aussie franchise around 6 foreign players per match day 22 (that'll still leave 80 Aussies competing on matchday). Admit Argentina to an expanded 4 Nations with each team playing each other twice instead of three times as is presently the case to avoid supporter apathy and player burnout. If participating countries want to boost their coffers and also prime Hong Kong, Japan or the USA for future expansion, exhibition games like last years match in Hong Kong and this years Bledisloe Cup Tokyo test can be added to the schedule outside of the 4 Nations.
W
Wally
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 9 2009, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I think the best solution is for the 15th team to be based in Australia and, so as not to dilute the already sparse talent too much, allowing each Aussie franchise around 6 foreign players per match day 22 (that'll still leave 80 Aussies competing on matchday). Admit Argentina to an expanded 4 Nations with each team playing each other twice instead of three times as is presently the case to avoid supporter apathy and player burnout. If participating countries want to boost their coffers and also prime Hong Kong, Japan or the USA for future expansion, exhibition games like last years match in Hong Kong and this years Bledisloe Cup Tokyo test can be added to the schedule outside of the 4 Nations.
[/b][/quote]
Mate I believe you are right on the money. That's what needs to happen. And the 5th franchise should be based in Melbourne, they are currently building a 30,000 rectangle stadium which should be awesome for the fans. Allowing more imports will not hinder the growth of Australian rugby, and in 5-10 years down the track when Melbourne and Perth are developing local talent the ARU can look at cutting back on foreign players.
I'm not sure the USA and Japan are viable options just yet. Neither have the playing numbers to sustain a decent team (granted there would be a ton of overseas players packing out the rosters) and travel would be a huge problem.
I think the best solution is for the 15th team to be based in Australia and, so as not to dilute the already sparse talent too much, allowing each Aussie franchise around 6 foreign players per match day 22 (that'll still leave 80 Aussies competing on matchday). Admit Argentina to an expanded 4 Nations with each team playing each other twice instead of three times as is presently the case to avoid supporter apathy and player burnout. If participating countries want to boost their coffers and also prime Hong Kong, Japan or the USA for future expansion, exhibition games like last years match in Hong Kong and this years Bledisloe Cup Tokyo test can be added to the schedule outside of the 4 Nations.
[/b][/quote]
Mate I believe you are right on the money. That's what needs to happen. And the 5th franchise should be based in Melbourne, they are currently building a 30,000 rectangle stadium which should be awesome for the fans. Allowing more imports will not hinder the growth of Australian rugby, and in 5-10 years down the track when Melbourne and Perth are developing local talent the ARU can look at cutting back on foreign players.
A
afakasi
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 8 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I agree, Melbourne's rugby quality is very low at the moment.
I have a cousin from Auckland who was in the reserves for Kelston's 3rd XV then one year later he could barely make the 22 squad for Suburbs Under19s, then the following year he is starting for the top grade side at his club in Melb, and was even included in the VIC squad.
I agree, Melbourne's rugby quality is very low at the moment.
I have a cousin from Auckland who was in the reserves for Kelston's 3rd XV then one year later he could barely make the 22 squad for Suburbs Under19s, then the following year he is starting for the top grade side at his club in Melb, and was even included in the VIC squad.
R
redunderthebed
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 8 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I wouldnt go that far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gho @ Mar 8 2009, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Overpaid twat fans never probably turned up again those who were attracted by him.
South Africa does not need a team it already has two "provinces" that are inadequate as i think Hugh Blaydon (i think thats how its spelt) said that South Africa should only have 3 teams and NOT six please we dont need another team that will be whipping boys.
New Zealand doesnt need another teams surely the teams now are adequate and that any new teams would just be cannabalising another team and fan base.
Infact i cant see any compelling argument for super 15/16/17/2000 whatever the amount of teams now are fine and really should be IMO about 12 teams.
I would love to see a team in Adelaide but thats just the parocial south aussie being let out of the cage.
I wouldnt go that far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gho @ Mar 8 2009, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Overpaid twat fans never probably turned up again those who were attracted by him.
South Africa does not need a team it already has two "provinces" that are inadequate as i think Hugh Blaydon (i think thats how its spelt) said that South Africa should only have 3 teams and NOT six please we dont need another team that will be whipping boys.
New Zealand doesnt need another teams surely the teams now are adequate and that any new teams would just be cannabalising another team and fan base.
Infact i cant see any compelling argument for super 15/16/17/2000 whatever the amount of teams now are fine and really should be IMO about 12 teams.
I would love to see a team in Adelaide but thats just the parocial south aussie being let out of the cage.
F
Fa'atau82
Guest
Before 1996, we had a competition called the Super 10 which featured sanzar teams and also a pacific nation representative. It was developing into what we now call the Super14, and previously called the Super12. I think it's reached it's right amount of teams. Obviously, once apartheid finished and the game went pro, the South African teams joined and the pacific qualifier was dropped.. hence 12 teams.
I think that you can't really expand the Super14 itself, but you can expand it's divisions. Otherwise you risk watering down the top level and getting games like Crusaders 50-0 Samoa XV.
Currie Cup has 2 divisions, Super Rugby could do the same.. with a 2nd tier made up of franchises from Japan, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, Argentina and the USA/Canada. The players can come from the highest level of regional competition, i.e TOP League, Super League, PRC and Argentina's top league.
Also, the new Australian franchise can earn it's stripes here. You can't give another region to a country that has no recognised national championship, because it went bust.. even if it is Australia and expect it compete any better than Western Force do.
You will find that pacific rugby was strongest when it's players was regionally-based. Now the game is professional in these nations, this would be an ideal outlet for their talent they are showcasing in the PRC.. and it would help pacific player tick two of their boxes.. playing a decent level closer to home for decent money and being able to be capped regularly. This would help the national teams develop too.
If the division is affiliated to Super Rugby it will add some much needed sponsorship and some extra dimension to the actual Super14. You could have a draft pick from the expansion teams, or equally have them affiliated to an Super 14 club. Rather like cricket has it's IPL, but without the auction.
I mean, Todd Clever plays for Lions and a Sireli Naquelevuki plays for Stormers.. it's not a bad thing if you have 2 foreigners per team, as long as they are competing for places. I think we all agree we want a more global game with a real challenge outside of the top 8 teams in the world.
I think that you can't really expand the Super14 itself, but you can expand it's divisions. Otherwise you risk watering down the top level and getting games like Crusaders 50-0 Samoa XV.
Currie Cup has 2 divisions, Super Rugby could do the same.. with a 2nd tier made up of franchises from Japan, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, Argentina and the USA/Canada. The players can come from the highest level of regional competition, i.e TOP League, Super League, PRC and Argentina's top league.
Also, the new Australian franchise can earn it's stripes here. You can't give another region to a country that has no recognised national championship, because it went bust.. even if it is Australia and expect it compete any better than Western Force do.
You will find that pacific rugby was strongest when it's players was regionally-based. Now the game is professional in these nations, this would be an ideal outlet for their talent they are showcasing in the PRC.. and it would help pacific player tick two of their boxes.. playing a decent level closer to home for decent money and being able to be capped regularly. This would help the national teams develop too.
If the division is affiliated to Super Rugby it will add some much needed sponsorship and some extra dimension to the actual Super14. You could have a draft pick from the expansion teams, or equally have them affiliated to an Super 14 club. Rather like cricket has it's IPL, but without the auction.
I mean, Todd Clever plays for Lions and a Sireli Naquelevuki plays for Stormers.. it's not a bad thing if you have 2 foreigners per team, as long as they are competing for places. I think we all agree we want a more global game with a real challenge outside of the top 8 teams in the world.
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