Super Rugby play-offs: Chiefs - Crusaders in Hamilton (28/07/2012)

[William18]

Well, the Cheetahs beat the Hurricanes, the Rebels beat the Crusaders, the Waratahs beat the Sharks... You can pick any result to prove a point. I think the overall number of points in the NZ conference is higher, but South Africa and New Zealand both had 3 teams competing for the play-offs the entire season. SA having 3 in the play-offs in the end could be evidence of both being strong. You can argue that the Australian conference is strong if even the Rebels can beat the Crusaders... Stats can work in any direction. It just depends on interpretation.

Well you can certainly misuse statistics. The idea that the whole Australian conference is strong because the Rebels beat the Crusaders in one game would be a massive logical fallacy. Luckily no one believes that. I think it is pretty clear if you look at it objectively that the New Zealand conference is slightly stronger than the South African conference with a huge jump down to the Australian conference. That is the way I see it. I also think it's a pointless debate though - I mean who cares. I want the Hurricanes to do well in this competition. I honestly don't gain any satisfaction out of having a stronger conference or whatever.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

All I care about is how the Sharks perform. I like the Chiefs when watching the NZ conference and the whole debate on who's better is just ridiculous. The conference system just put that debate back into action and I can't wait for 2016 to end. Just get the freakin' conference system over with, go back to a single round-robin format where you play each team once. NZ and SA have their local derbies in the domestic leagues. Let the ARU sort their sh*t out themselves. Just start a domestic league if they so desperately want one.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Fruean is such a frustrating player, he has the potential to be world class and is a very powerful ball runner and tackler (sometimes). And yet his work rate is just hopeless!

Chuck him in the 7s and see what ***ch can do with him...

 

[Muzzy]

watching the replay now but man that first try was bs, how was that not a double movement? taumalolo clearly pushed himself forward with his legs, he wasn't pushed by the guy behind him

 

[welshglory]

The problem with Fruean is that his heart condition will always hold him back unfortunately. I wonder what he would've been like without it

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

watching the replay now but man that first try was bs, how was that not a double movement? taumalolo clearly pushed himself forward with his legs, he wasn't pushed by the guy behind him

Call it justice

The Crusaders have had about four ridiculous TMO calls go in their favour lately, about time the Chiefs got one.

 

[Sam Owen]

Mean game from the Chiefs. The Crusaders came close and just stayed close.

 

[big ginger 8]

Hope the Chiefs can go on and win it now.

 

[nickdnz]

Agree with the vast majority of that. The Crusaders backline as a whole offered very little in attack - they were exactly the same last weekend, but luckily the Bulls kept giving them easy points! Carter was very predictable to - he would get the ball, shuffle sideways a bit, then shovel the ball on. Crotty was really the only threatening back, as he ran hard and straight at the line. The only time I noticed Fruean was in the match was when he tackled Kerr-Barlow in he air - he has an amazing ability to disappear in the big matches!

In terms on of the Chiefs, one person who you didn't mention (but had a very good game) was SBW. He constantly hit the line hard and made it too (and more often well over) the advantage line. It has taken a few years to work out that he needs to run straight and hard - it is unfortunate that he is leaving just as he has figured that out! Kerr-Barlow put good pressure on Ellis, but I feel there are still a few rough edges in his game he needs to sort out before he becomes an All Black (it is simply a matter of when, not if). Robinson did look dangerous from the back. He is as dangerous as any fullback in the country with ball in hand as he has freakish acceleration - it is unfortunate that the rest of his game is still pretty poor. He made quite a few errors that could have cost the Chiefs - dropped an easy pass, one shockingly poor bomb, and he even got the ball ripped out of his hands by Zac Guildford (of all people!). It would be great if he could sort out the rest of his game, as his running from the back definitely is world-class!

Agree with pretty much all of this - Fruean was pretty much invisiable this game (which is hard for a guy of his size to be!). For some reason he doesn't seem to be running the lines he did last season, running as hard as he did and has a much worse workrate! It's pretty frustrating to watch.

Not intentionally making excuses for Carter, but to be fair I don't know how much he could have done. By the time Ellis ran to the wise of the ruck and passes (which he did almost every time) or just generally deliver slow ball, there were only so many options Carter had avalible - To either take it himself which leaves him unavalible for the next phase or to pass to someone else and considering how flat everyone was standing, meant that it would be relatively uneffective against a rush defense (a number of times he'd actually have to weight for somone to try and hit the line at pace, which resulted in him getting mullered in a tackle by Taumololo etc). It was poor attack, but that has to come down to poor planning and offensive organisation, which I don't think there is a 5/8th in the world who could have done better under such crappy conditions.

Sonny Bill Williams was good, but it seemed every back and forward made it past the advantage line, i actually thought he was relatively well covered this game. Set up a nice try for Messam, but I didn't think he was outstanding (or rather, I think he was as good as the rest of the backline). Not to put him down, I thought he was certainly good and plays more like the player he should. I still wouldn't have him in my Rugby Championship team, as investing further into him doesn't help us build depth at all (even if we are in trouble without Smith).

I also saw Guildford steal the ball off Robinson. I was about to say "Guildford did really well there", but then he lost and knocked on the ball before I could finish my sentence.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Nice one Cheifs, glad you are through to the finals

 

[Icemn]

Well done to the Chiefs. To be honest, the crusaders never looked like they deserved the win. They lacked any form of creativity in attack and their forwards were getting driven off the park. If Kieran Read was avalible it may have gone slightly differently.

I have to feel Todd Blackadder is in large part to blame for the loss. Adam Whitelock as consistant as he is, adds nothing on attack. Guildford never beats a man one on one. It's scary to think the Crusaders most dangerous back was Ryan Crotty! Sean Maitland must have been fuming, as there was no strike power in the Crusaders and yet Maitland still didn't get a look in for the entire game! If I was him I'd look for somewhere else to play, maybe the Blues? Somewhere Todd Blackadder isn't in charge of selections!

Players like Andy Ellis and Israel Dagg really weren't playing very well. All of Ellis's passes were delayed, he'd cponstantly pick the ball up, run it to the side of the ruck and then pass, limiting the amount of time Daniel Carter got with the ball to create anything. The result was the Crusaders were always under pressure. It was infuriating. He then waits for ages for the ball to be free, looks and points to the forwards he's going to pass it too and then finally passes it, like it's any wonder the forwards were getting smashed by the Chiefs with such obvious telegraphing. Israel Dagg has become the most predictable player in Super Rugby, everyone knows he's ganna do a little goose step and then keep running till he gets tackled. Guildford was typically his unthreatening self. He made a nice cover tackle at one point, but short of that he did little to threaten the line.
The forwards were equally frustrating. McCaw's running game has looked to improve quite a bit, but he still doesn't know how to pass the f*cking ball. It's amazing, he sees the overlap, but always decides to hit it up himself! Always! It was very evident in the Ireland tests and it costs his teams some of their best attacking chances! Matt Todd actually looked very good in my opinion, one of the picks of the pack.

The Chiefs were very impressive. Taumololo, Messam, Cane (when he came on), Tameifuna, Clarke, Retallick and Schwalger all had very good games for the forwards. Very physical and good in defense. Their setpieces started to crumble when Ben Afiaki came on (possibly due to his big layoff and Crockett being a very good scrummager), but other than that it was overall very good. For the backs, Robbie Robinson looked constantly dangerous. One thing I really like about him is that unlike so many back in New Zealand, when he gets the ball with space, he puts his head down and runs hard. Too many players try little steps which ultimately costs them speed and momentum. Robinson's running is exactly what I like to see. Cruden also looked very good for large parts of the match. Made the efforts for the forwards count and ran with the ball well and kicked for the right spots.

well the chiefs had a week off and the saders had to play the "stampkar" bulls last week... so the saders had a reason to look tired come 2nd half...
this whole conference system stinks, not a fair matchup...

sam thing is gonna happen in the sharks vs stromers match, sharks will be too tired cuz of the traveling to ""down-under"...

so ek weet nie so mooi nie...i don't know so lovely lol

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

That's nothing to do with conferencing though...

 

[Icemn]

That's nothing to do with conferencing though...

what? resting the top 2 teams? while the rest travel and fight it out?

sure....

or is it part of the perks for finishing 1st and 2nd overall???

 

[Amobokoboko]

Yeah we won

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

what? resting the top 2 teams? while the rest travel and fight it out?

sure....

or is it part of the perks for finishing 1st and 2nd overall???

Yeah. They could just as easily have four or eight qualifiers, but chose not to. Conferencing didn't dictate the structure of the finals...

 

[Larksea]

pretty happy the chiefs won. They deserved it and it's great the final will be in Hamilton results went against them the last couple of rounds but I think they deserved a home final too.

very close game. my overall feeling was that the chiefs clearly had the better of the crusaders and it was the chiefs defense that was putting them under the most pressure but the chiefs really lacked discipline. They gave away a lot of silly penalties when they looked to be taking the momentum and from that the Crusaders got field position and kicked goals. But at the same time their competitiveness forced the crusaders into a lot of mistakes.

Again very frustrated with Renee for not really using his bench. Masaga and Leonard did not make it onto the park when both chiefs wingers had fairly quiet games and Barlow again was pretty quiet in the last 20min. by not using his bench in these last few games he now really can't use it in the final because it's become an unknown factor. Barlow is good, but not so good he should keep Leonard off the park for the whole 80, even more so when Leonard has shown this year that he's in some of his best ever form. Hika Elliot did not even make the field... Fitzgerald ****** me off but even he looked good of the bench last time he got a shot. Willison too would have been a good addition for the last 10 min fresh legs and importantly he's a great defender.

Does Renee get too caught up in the game and forget to make replacements???

SBW was very good
Messam was great again, first half in particular was brilliant fairly quiet in the 2nd half after he took a knock, still 63m 12 tackles 2 linebreaks 5 busted tackles, 1 try = basically man of the match stats. Same as the previous game he put a couple of big hits in on McCaw in the first half one resulted in a turnover.
Robinson was pretty impressive, I think he will be a great asset against the sharks too.


Set piece was fairly messy but they got closer to the crusaders in this area than they did last time which was critical.

For the Crusaders

I thought Todd was really good
Crotty was prob their best back, very surprised to see that he has not bade the first AB training squad.
Carter was brilliant kicking goals, struggled a bit against the Chiefs "in ya face" defense

Very tough game, I thought it was even more tough and tight battle than the Sharks vs. Stormers game.

 

[donmcdazzle]

pretty happy the chiefs won. They deserved it and it's great the final will be in Hamilton results went against them the last couple of rounds but I think they deserved a home final too.

very close game. my overall feeling was that the chiefs clearly had the better of the crusaders and it was the chiefs defense that was putting them under the most pressure but the chiefs really lacked discipline. They gave away a lot of silly penalties when they looked to be taking the momentum and from that the Crusaders got field position and kicked goals. But at the same time their competitiveness forced the crusaders into a lot of mistakes.

Again very frustrated with Renee for not really using his bench. Masaga and Leonard did not make it onto the park when both chiefs wingers had fairly quiet games and Barlow again was pretty quiet in the last 20min. by not using his bench in these last few games he now really can't use it in the final because it's become an unknown factor. Barlow is good, but not so good he should keep Leonard off the park for the whole 80, even more so when Leonard has shown this year that he's in some of his best ever form. Hika Elliot did not even make the field... Fitzgerald ****** me off but even he looked good of the bench last time he got a shot. Willison too would have been a good addition for the last 10 min fresh legs and importantly he's a great defender.

Does Renee get too caught up in the game and forget to make replacements???

SBW was very good
Messam was great again, first half in particular was brilliant fairly quiet in the 2nd half after he took a knock, still 63m 12 tackles 2 linebreaks 5 busted tackles, 1 try = basically man of the match stats. Same as the previous game he put a couple of big hits in on McCaw in the first half one resulted in a turnover.
Robinson was pretty impressive, I think he will be a great asset against the sharks too.


Set piece was fairly messy but they got closer to the crusaders in this area than they did last time which was critical.

For the Crusaders

I thought Todd was really good
Crotty was prob their best back, very surprised to see that he has not bade the first AB training squad.
Carter was brilliant kicking goals, struggled a bit against the Chiefs "in ya face" defense

Very tough game, I thought it was even more tough and tight battle than the Sharks vs. Stormers game.

He missed that regulation (for him) 48-odd metre kick that would have tied it up, Crusaders supporters must have been shocked when he missed that.