Super Rugby Semi-Final: Waratahs vs Highlanders

[TobesHodges]

Happy to be proved wrong landers were great value! They will have to go to the next gear from the start next week.. Which I'm sure they are capable of..

 

[mattn]

Sorry should say I don't mean refs won the game for highlanders cause that's not at all the case, I just mean waratahs copped some shocking calls. Waratahs were dominated tonight, well done highlanders

 

[Amobokoboko]

I hope Conrad and Ma'a nail it next weekend. They truly deserve it.

 

[Jaguares]

I hope Conrad and Ma'a nail it next weekend. They truly deserve it.

I agree. That's the reason why I will support to the Canes at the Final. True rugby legends, they deserve a Super Rugby ***le

 

[TobesHodges]

Happy to be proved wrong landers were great value! They will have to go to the next gear from the start next week.. Which I'm sure they are capable of..

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Does anyone else find Aaron Smith arrogant? I get the feeling if he was an Aussie he would be labelled a sore winner.

Did something happen or are we just talking about him In general

If in general I don't think so, I see him hyping him self up More than anything

If anything specific happened though I could be wrong...

 

[smartcooky]

Never a fan of people rubbing it in to the opposition when you win, halfback or not. Same deal with Brad Haddin and wicketkeepers in cricket.

Right! Now I see what you are talking about now. You are referring to his actions just after the final whistle when he waves his arms about and points up into the stands. Well, I think you ought to have another look at that before you brand him arrogant and accuse him of rubbing it in.

You will notice that he does that in only ONE direction, and that is towards the corner of the stand on that side (IIRC its the south-east corner of Allianz Stadium), where there was a massive group of about 2000 Highlanders supporters all grouped together. He looks up at those supporters, waves his outstretched arms up and down, points towards them, then puts his hand to his mouth and blows them a kiss. He's not rubbing it in, he's acknowledging their support.

What you'll find about Aaron Smith is that he is very appreciative of the fans and supporters. After games, he almost always acknowledges the support in interviews and is usually one of the last players off the ground, still signing autographs for the fans and getting in selfie's with them for a hour or more after the whistle.

A pal of mine knows him quite well. He told me that after the 2012 loss to England at Twickenham, Aaron exchanged jerseys with Manu Tuilagi. He now has that White 12 jersey hanging on his bedroom wall, and he uses it as motivation; when he sees it first thing in the morning, it reminds him what it feels like to lose!

 

[squirrel]

Nah I switched off before the final whistle, I don't watch much rugby these days due to work and a lack of foxtel but every time I see Smith he strikes me as an arrogant ****, that's why I asked the question in a genuine manner. I'm sorry for shifting some attention off the game which was disappointing for a Tahs supporter but you cant begrudge the southern men and supporters success, hope they go all the way next week.

 

[Kiwi_]

Nah I switched off before the final whistle, I don't watch much rugby these days due to work and a lack of foxtel but every time I see Smith he strikes me as an arrogant ****, that's why I asked the question in a genuine manner. I'm sorry for shifting some attention off the game which was disappointing for a Tahs supporter but you cant begrudge the southern men and supporters success, hope they go all the way next week.

Interested to know your thoughts on George Gregan. You realize he's the definition of your complaints? I remember when Australia bet the All Blacks in 2003 World Cup near the end whistle he pushed Justin Marshall into the ground and said "4 more years" also using his hands to indicate 4.

An Aussie complaining about bad sportsmanship and arrogance is like a turd complaining that it stinks.

Especially given you're a cricket fan, Johnson, Haddin, Warner, Ponting to name a few all with shocking attitude and insufferable arrogance that makes you turn the TV off.

 

[squirrel]

He said it to Kelleher, those two had a intense dislike for each other. I dislike the Aussie cricket team as well, the sorest winners in the history of sport who can give it but cant take it. And to top it all off you have to listen to the channel 9 commentators who try to tell you these guys are the nicest blokes on the planet, it drives me nuts when every year I hear about Glen Mrgrath being this nice guy when all the evidence suggest he was a bad tempered aloof prick. @Kiwi_ I'm born and raised in NZ

 

[Kiwi_]

I'm not sure what was more satisfying, beating the Waratahs or listening to Phil Kearns whinging all game.

You would swear he's never played or watched Rugby in his life.. is he really that oblivious and ignorant of the rules? You can't hit a guy in the face, especially in a try scoring opportunity. Regardless of the intentions, there's nothing legal about that. It's illegal and stopped a try, yellow card and penalty try. Simple.

 

[Muzzy]

He said it to Kelleher, those two had a intense dislike for each other. I dislike the Aussie cricket team as well, the sorest winners in the history of sport who can give it but cant take it. And to top it all off you have to listen to the channel 9 commentators who try to tell you these guys are the nicest blokes on the planet, it drives me nuts when every year I hear about Glen Mrgrath being this nice guy when all the evidence suggest he was a bad tempered aloof prick. @Kiwi_ I'm born and raised in NZ

Aaron Smith is alright but TJ Perenara can be like that. Don't know if thats what it is or if he's just really aggressive during games. I used to see him dive on top of players after they score and every time there was a fight he'd always get in the middle of it, if he wasn't the one that already caused it that is

and yeah Phil Kearns was pretty sore about it lol.

 

[Kiwi_]

Aaron Smith is alright but TJ Perenara can be like that. Don't know if thats what it is or if he's just really aggressive during games. I used to see him dive on top of players after they score and every time there was a fight he'd always get in the middle of it, if he wasn't the one that already caused it that is

and yeah Phil Kearns was pretty sore about it lol.

You just made me hate him more and the victory even sweeter haha... what a ******.

 

[RoosTah]

Never a fan of people rubbing it in to the opposition when you win, halfback or not. Same deal with Brad Haddin and wicketkeepers in cricket.

To be honest I didn't have a problem with that. I think if a player is into "rubbing it in" like Smith, Haddin or recently Klemmer in Origin, it shows a lot of confidence and actually puts pressure back on them. If they can handle that extra pressure AND unsettle the opposition then more power to them. Indeed, in Origin one of the reasons we've struggled so much over the years is lacking an aggressive, in your face and unsettling player like Klemmer.

With that in mind I was very impressed with Smith - he took it to us and our boys couldn't handle him and had no response to his "arrogance". As far as I'm concerned, that's more our problem than his.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm not sure what was more satisfying, beating the Waratahs or listening to Phil Kearns whinging all game.

You would swear he's never played or watched Rugby in his life.. is he really that oblivious and ignorant of the rules? You can't hit a guy in the face, especially in a try scoring opportunity. Regardless of the intentions, there's nothing legal about that. It's illegal and stopped a try, yellow card and penalty try. Simple.

Yup.

I have been hearing and reading a lot of bleating from the Waratahs Fan Club (i.e, the Sydney media) about this being "disgraceful refereeing" and "unfair"

FACT: Potgeiter struck Osborne in the head with a swinging arm. That is undeniable and plain to see for anyone not wearing a light-blue eye-patch.
FACT: Intent is not part of the assessment. What Potgeiter was trying to do is irrelevant, what he actually did is at hand.
FACT: When a player commits an act of foul play and his actions are being assessed for a Penalty Try, the player is removed from the scenario.

Without Potgeiter there at all, would Osborne have scored the the try? Almost certainly.

Craig Joubert got this exactly right. Foul play stopped a probable try so penalty try, and if such foul play is by an identifiable individual, then that player goes to the bin. Its textbook rugby Law

Some will recall a similar incident in the Chiefs v Hurricanes match a couple of weeks back...same result, penalty try. There were loud protests from the Chief's camp but it it turned out that the referee and TMO got it right. We ask for referees to be consistent in their rulings, so we cannot then complain when they are.

Also, I seem to recall a bad mistake by the same referee that handed the Super Rugby Championship to the Waratahs last year (a mistake that Joubert has since admitted to and apologised to Todd Blackadder for). No whinging from the Sydney media on that occasion was there?

Karma can be a real *****!!

 

[RoosTah]

Yeah, a couple things come into play on the media's reaction to this one - first local media is parochial and so will always back the home side, and second, Sydney is THE Rugby League capital of the world, and the way foul play penalties are dished out in the NRL is drastically different and far less severe than it is in Rugby, so there's a lot of simple misapprehension of how Rugby is governed compared with League. In League you now really need to go and punch someone square in the face to be sent off - pretty well nothing else will see it happen.

In my view League is too lenient and union is too harsh in its penalties, but that's a debate for another day. Personally I could have seen this penalty go either way - considering both players are falling and the arm is coming from underneath in my view makes it less clear cut than you average swinging arm to the head that goes higher than most people stand. That said, I've seen plenty of harsher calls in Rugby of late, so wasn't terribly surprised all the same.

In any case, in the end it was 5 tries to 1 and we were just terribly outplayed by a much hungrier team, so there's no use getting too preoccupied with JacPot's unfortunate accident.

Also, I seem to recall a bad mistake by the same referee that handed the Super Rugby Championship to the Waratahs last year (a mistake that Joubert has since admitted to and apologised to Todd Blackadder for). No whinging from the Sydney media on that occasion was there?

Karma can be a real *****!!

Well to be frank, I think most of us here considered that karma for all the stuff richie has gotten away with in the past ;-) .

 

[austingtir]

Yeah, a couple things come into play on the media's reaction to this one - first local media is parochial and so will always back the home side, and second, Sydney is THE Rugby League capital of the world, and the way foul play penalties are dished out in the NRL is drastically different and far less severe than it is in Rugby, so there's a lot of simple misapprehension of how Rugby is governed compared with League. In League you now really need to go and punch someone square in the face to be sent off - pretty well nothing else will see it happen.

In my view League is too lenient and union is too harsh in its penalties, but that's a debate for another day. Personally I could have seen this penalty go either way - considering both players are falling and the arm is coming from underneath in my view makes it less clear cut than you average swinging arm to the head that goes higher than most people stand. That said, I've seen plenty of harsher calls in Rugby of late, so wasn't terribly surprised all the same.

In any case, in the end it was 5 tries to 1 and we were just terribly outplayed by a much hungrier team, so there's no use getting too preoccupied with JacPot's unfortunate accident.



Well to be frank, I think most of us here considered that karma for all the stuff richie has gotten away with in the past ;-) .

I think with the media over there its more like they've had the "rub of the green" in syndey most of the year and then one night it goes slightly pear shaped for them and toys get thrown out of the cot. You cant tell me the Tahs havent had the majority of calls go for them all year at alliance stadium! IMO they'd of been in a totally different position on the table without alot of the "help" they've had all year.

 

[RoosTah]

I think with the media over there its more like they've had the "rub of the green" in syndey most of the year and then one night it goes slightly pear shaped for them and toys get thrown out of the cot. You cant tell me the Tahs havent had the majority of calls go for them all year at alliance stadium! IMO they'd of been in a totally different position on the table without alot of the "help" they've had all year.

Well in both cases - yours and the "Sydney Media" (a broad church - the Tele is worlds apart from the Herald in terms of balance) - the accusations of the "rub of the green" one way or the other are classic examples of confirmation bias. You hate the Aussie teams, and so focus heavily on the calls that go our way, whilst our media loves out teams and so focuses heavily on those that don't.

As always, the truth tends to lie somewhere in the middle. In a lot of ways both the right wing media and guys like you remind of Ricky Stewart in the NRL - the man is utterly irate whenever even the slightest call goes against him and will bleat and bleat about it till blue in the face, but never seems to recognise when things go his way.

Sport is all about swings and round abouts; some times it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. You just need to work hard enough and play well enough that the balance of probability remains in your favour regardless.

 

[smartcooky]

To give my take on the game overall, I think the Highlanders handed the Waratahs a master class in tactical rugby. They kicked when they needed to kick (and with the right types of kick) and ran when they needed to run. They dominated possession (53%), territory (62%) and all the attacking stats such as clean breaks, defenders beaten, running metres and offloads.

In short, they followed the adage that winning rugby involves the four "P"s

Possession
Position
Pressure
Points

Its an old school saying, but its as relevant today as it ever was.

Another thing the Highlanders did well was to shut down Will Skelton. They turned him into Mr Invisible. His 7 runs for 11 metres must be among his worst running stats all season and on top of that, he missed two of his five tackles. IMO Skelton is overrated. He may be a big strong bruiser with some good skills, but he doesn't do the basics well enough and the ease with which the Highlanders shut him out of the game will not have gone unnoticed by Hansen, Foster & Smith.

As for the Waratahs, their set piece was a disaster (lost four out of 13 line-outs on their own throw and one of their four scrum feeds). They were also tactically woeful. The kicking was poor and misdirected and didn't put the Highlanders under much pressure They also failed to run the ball down the 9-10 channel against Sopoaga, whose defence has been a bit suspect in the past. Between them Smith and Sopoaga only had to make eight tackles all game (one missed). Compare that with White & Foley's 16 tackles (six missed). You can be sure that Broadhurst, Thrush, Shields and Ardie Savea will not make that mistake next Saturday night.

 

[Kiwi_]

Australian teams, especially the Waratahs are known as "****ly" which in other words means cheap shots and this Tahs team has been full of them, the Crusaders game a month ago comes to mind. They were lucky to even post 1 try, there were a string of forward passes in the build up. Watch Foleys inside ball to Hooper, its at least a meter forward.

I am disappointed there was a "controversial" referring decision that ruins a sweet victory for us and doesn't allow for the Waratahs, or their supports to just tip their hats to the far better team. But it was the right call and given a string of penalties leading up to the try Joubert was left with no choice. Hats off to Sanzar though, quality comments.