"the enemies" ?

[alexrugby]

Well the rugby game wears mantle of glory among other sports with its amazing ethics and nobel approach to many things (don't mean scrum, tackles, rucks and etc )

So its a really difficult to call teams enemies anyway

But the question I put here next to the TRF members is pretty clear:

Do you know any other teams more envenoming, spoiling, scarring and demolishing each other, than Les Bleus and All Blacks? Does any other couple exist, especially in RWC history, that bled each other more than those guys?

(well, I am not going to remind you the statistics of the games between these two teams)

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wait - do you mean which two teams hate each other the most, or which two teams have had the most amazingly bruising intense matches against each other?

If it's the first thing, then I can't see past the absolute animosity that both Wales and Ireland harbor for England - not really reciprocated from us except insofar as them wanting to beat us bad makes us want to beat them! To my mind it's a shame, because it lessens the possible camaraderie there could be between the home nations e.g during the autumn internationals, and for example makes me want to see Wales lose games where really I should want them to win.

 

[Aedaphon]

New Zealand vs. Quade Cooper.

(and NZ are 1-0 since Brad Thorn crushed Cooper for kicking Captain Fantastic)

 

[Big Ewis]

Wait - do you mean which two teams hate each other the most, or which two teams have had the most amazingly bruising intense matches against each other?

If it's the first thing, then I can't see past the absolute animosity that both Wales and Ireland harbor for England - not really reciprocated from us except insofar as them wanting to beat us bad makes us want to beat them! To my mind it's a shame, because it lessens the possible camaraderie there could be between the home nations e.g during the autumn internationals, and for example makes me want to see Wales lose games where really I should want them to win.

lol

and as far as RWC rivalries, clearly France England.
France's earliest exit ever was in the 1/4 F in the 1991 edition against England. In 1995, France got its revenge by winning it convincingly for the Bronze medal final.
2003 and then in Paris in 2007, England beat France twice in a row in the semi-final, including a comfortable 24-7 in '03 despite scoring no try. And 2011 saw France winning comfortably and ousting England in the 1/4 F, I believe its earliest exit ever.

We met in all RWC except 1987 and 1999, so that's 5 meetings already. Definitely a huge RWC rivalry.

EDIT: England's earliest exit was actually 1987, 16-3 against Wales in the 1/4F.

 

[Tony Manx]

lEngland's earliest exit was actually 1987, 16-3 against Wales in the 1/4F.

No one with any sense recognises the 1987 so called RWC as it was not a serious competition............more along the lines of the tournament held annually in Bermuda for past internationals which is huge fun with much drink taken before, after and, in certain cases, during the match!!

 

[Big Ewis]

OK OK, England's earliest exit was 1999, 1/4F against South Africa 44-21 in Paris..

 

[Aedaphon]

No one with any sense recognises the 1987 so called RWC as it was not a serious competition............more along the lines of the tournament held annually in Bermuda for past internationals which is huge fun with much drink taken before, after and, in certain cases, during the match!!

My old headmaster at school played in 1987- I'm sure he'd take issue with that

 

[big ginger 8]

With Ireland England already mentioned.

Following Lens 99 up to about 2008 Ireland Argentina was a pretty big deal.

 

[Patchey]

lol

and as far as RWC rivalries, clearly France England.
France's earliest exit ever was in the 1/4 F in the 1991 edition against England. In 1995, France got its revenge by winning it convincingly for the Bronze medal final.
2003 and then in Paris in 2007, England beat France twice in a row in the semi-final, including a comfortable 24-7 in '03 despite scoring no try. And 2011 saw France winning comfortably and ousting England in the 1/4 F, I believe its earliest exit ever.

We met in all RWC except 1987 and 1999, so that's 5 meetings already. Definitely a huge RWC rivalry.

EDIT: England's earliest exit was actually 1987, 16-3 against Wales in the 1/4F.

I think you're missing the two World Cup finals and one semi final England and Australia have contested. Seeing as the Wallabies beat England to it at home and visa versa, and that we get the chance to regularly play France in the Six Nations I think most English fans would suggest they care more about England v Australia.

 

[Big Ewis]

I think you're missing the two World Cup finals and one semi final England and Australia have contested. Seeing as the Wallabies beat England to it at home and visa versa, and that we get the chance to regularly play France in the Six Nations I think most English fans would suggest they care more about England v Australia.

Why would you say "missing" ? It's completely illogical, I'm just naming one big rivalry, esp. when it comes to the RWC. I didn't say that's the one, single rivalry in Rugby...
and do they really care more about Australia ? Not sure. Of course because of those two Finals, and the fact that Australia are a better side than France, there's more prestige to it. But I don't know if we can say the English public "cares more" about ENG AUS. Maybe you're right, I dunno..

 

[smartcooky]

No one with any sense recognises the 1987 so called RWC as it was not a serious competition............more along the lines of the tournament held annually in Bermuda for past internationals which is huge fun with much drink taken before, after and, in certain cases, during the match!!

People who make that spurious claim would be whistling a different tune if the team THEY support had won it. Besides Tony, everything has to have a start.

The 1987 RWC was every bit as much a valid World Cup as every one since. Just because there weren't gazzillions of advertising dollars turning it into a glitzy affair, doesn't mean the competition wasn't serious. It was the highest rated and most followed global sports event that year.

Also, the players certainly were NOT old. NZ had one of its youngest test teams ever, coming only one year after the "Baby Blacks".

Don't let any of the BS emanating from South Africa fool you. They would have you believe it wasn't a "real" world cup because they weren't there. Tough, it was their own fault they weren't invited. Their government knew exactly what they had to do to fix that. In any case, they participated in 1999, 2003 and 2011, and didn't win any of those tournaments, so there is no guarantee that had they been at 1987, or 1991, that they would have won either of these.

The 1987-1990 All Blacks were one of the greatest teams in our history: 50 matches unbeaten (23 of them tests) stretching over more then three years. To dismiss them as a bunch of drunken old men is frankly, an insult.

PS: If you want to see drunken, badly behaved players at a RWC, I give you England's RWC team of 2011

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ur-after-night-out-at-dwarf-throwing-bar.html

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/15157763

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/14/premiership-apologises-england-behaviour

http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/10/04/english-behaviour-unacceptable-says-guscott/

 

[The Jones Boy]

As an oldie I'd have to say the 'old enemy' for New Zealand is the dirty Boks.
We love to beat them.
Always have.
Beating Aussie is expected, they are the Johnny come lately on the scene.
It's the Boks we really love to grind into the dirt.
Heh Heh Heh, yep, thats the one.

 

[Big Ewis]

uh oh, here come the Kiwis, Tony !!

And I agree it's a real World Cup. If not, it would've made the All-Blacks wait for a ***le 'only' 21 years, not 24
yes, yes, I know, at least they got a couple...I know, I know

 

[The Jones Boy]

England's earliest exit was actually 1987, 16-3 against Wales in the 1/4F.

I watched that game live on telly in NZ back in my early 20's, awesome.

 

[alexrugby]

Ireland Wales and England - guys this is another, historical political story, I dont think Scotts are less tense when playing against England

Same issue dominates Georgian Russian plays, well again! historical political issue, even 5 years ago we had big load of negative emotions - I dont want to convert to politics

But still, France and NZ are really punishing each other on RWCs, like France and England said before

We managed to bleed Irish on RWC 2007, their victory was by far not easy against Georgia
Lets see how we will keep up with Irish

ABs vs Springboks also quite unpleasant encounter as well

 

[alexrugby]

People who make that spurious claim would be whistling a different tune if the team THEY support had won it. Besides Tony, everything has to have a start.

The 1987 RWC was every bit as much a valid World Cup as every one since. Just because there weren't gazzillions of advertising dollars turning it into a glitzy affair, doesn't mean the competition wasn't serious. It was the highest rated and most followed global sports event that year.

Agreed by 200%, and who knows maybe that Banking-free rugby was better than today's tendency to convert rugby players into Ronaldu - Messi - athletes, sportsman behaving like models of Victoria's Secret Lingerie :angry:

 

[TRF_heineken]

For SA, I think the only teams we can see as "enemies" during the World Cup would be England and Samoa. It seems that we always play against one another and in 2007 we played england twice. Apart from 2003, we won every game played against these 2 teams, including the 1999 match where Jannie De Beer kicked over 5 Dropped goals in the match. As a Boer-South African, the battle against the Poms is always a fierce battle, and older generations use the Boer Wars, Concentration Camps and a whole bunch of other bad things that happened between the British and the Boere long ago. It seems that it's used to amp up both the fans and the players as we always turn up for the "fight".

 

[Big Ewis]

there's a chance for another FRA NZ in the 1/4 F this coming 2015. France need to finish second in their Pool, so lose to either Italy or Ireland. NZ are finishing first in theirs no matter what, so that would entail yet another FRA NZ, in England again, like that one fateful day some years ago..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Everyone but particularly Wales and Ireland vs England
SA vs NZ

The 1987 RWC was every bit as much a valid World Cup as every one since. Just because there weren't gazzillions of advertising dollars turning it into a glitzy affair, doesn't mean the competition wasn't serious. It was the highest rated and most followed global sports event that year.

Also, the players certainly were NOT old. NZ had one of its youngest test teams ever, coming only one year after the "Baby Blacks".

Don't let any of the BS emanating from South Africa fool you. They would have you believe it wasn't a "real" world cup because they weren't there. Tough, it was their own fault they weren't invited. Their government knew exactly what they had to do to fix that. In any case, they participated in 1999, 2003 and 2011, and didn't win any of those tournaments, so there is no guarantee that had they been at 1987, or 1991, that they would have won either of these.

Who are you trying to convince here?

As an oldie I'd have to say the 'old enemy' for New Zealand is the dirty Boks.
We love to beat them.
Always have.
Beating Aussie is expected, they are the Johnny come lately on the scene.
It's the Boks we really love to grind into the dirt.
Heh Heh Heh, yep, thats the one.

Yep, the dirties vs the cheaters is a big one

uh oh, here come the Kiwis, Tony !!

And I agree it's a real World Cup. If not, it would've made the All-Blacks wait for a ***le 'only' 21 years, not 24
yes, yes, I know, at least they got a couple...I know, I know

And both those were handed to them on a silver platter and at home... ;P

 

[Packman]

No one with any sense recognises the 1987 so called RWC as it was not a serious competition............more along the lines of the tournament held annually in Bermuda for past internationals which is huge fun with much drink taken before, after and, in certain cases, during the match!!

That's a bit harsh on Buck Shelford and co. Its just a case of "from small acorns mighty oaks grow" isn't it?

anyway

When it comes to rivalries, English fans are spoiled for choice and I love that because every match is all the more spicier and has just that little more riding on it. My team that England MUST beat is Scotland. The grand slam loss in 2000 was BAD, it hurts, and the kick in the nuts was that TV image of some Scottish wiseguy wiping his hairy ass with the flag of St George! <_< It's been game on ever since This is also the reason why I'll be a bit gutted if Scottish rugby slides into obscurity thanks to self absorbed English businessmen who are only in this sport to build petty domestic empires, they only have two clubs for crying out loud if they are to stay competitive at test match level they need BOTH playing in the european cup. It's commonsense, but at the moment it's looking like even Ireland have agreed to sell kick Edinburgh into the ditch. Its funny how PRL want to remove promotion and relegation from the aviva premiership to help develop their smaller clubs though, isn't it... selfish hypocrites.

Scotland aren't just my "Enemy" they are my "Favourite Enemy" We've lost a fair few in Murrayfield since 2000 and we're heading up there again next spring so long may the refrain of "England!" "**** OFF!" echo during the Scottish National Anthem! We'll just ram those words back down their throats on the pitch 5 minutes later! :box: