Big Ewis
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tsk, so useless...
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The Hybrid Game
- Thread starter goodNumber10
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tsk, so useless...
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Yeah, If Aussies pick the best NRL players, they would be the best 7's team.
dasNdanger
First XV
I do like the pace of league, but to incorporate that into a hybrid game would mean an end to mauls and hard scrums and line-outs and what's left of the rucks as we know them today. As has been mentioned, the union game is all about the contest, and that's exactly what I like...even better than a faster paced game. That said, I think it would be hard to meld the two into one game loved by all. Point changes and such wouldn't really change the face of the game, and even little tweaks would have little impact on how the game is played, and - more importantly - how it looks to spectators.
That said, I think the only way to really blend the two into one game that could be enjoyed by lovers of both codes is to change what the game looks like as it's played - how it flows and the patterns that it creates. Union would have to give up some of the contest, while league would have to accept more contest. What slows down the union game the most? Scrums, and line-outs. What makes the union game exciting? Rucks and mauls. So, go with the softer (and quicker) league scrum, and lose the line-outs, but also lose those god-awful league tackles with the wimpy fish-flop to shake off the tackler and the ball pushback. Not sure about the phases of play - I don't care for the league rule, but at the same time it does possibly allow for a more balanced game. Perhaps if a side hasn't scored after 12 tackles then possession is turned over, but not after just a mere 6 tackles.
Anyway, those are the sorts of things that (imho) would need to be adjusted in order to create a truly hybrid game. Little technical things, like points and metres and such really wouldn't have much of an impact on how the game is actually played on the pitch, and thus how it would look (and appeal, or not) to the spectator in the stands. For me it would boil down to keeping what makes rugby union a game about the contest, while keeping what makes rugby league a game about the pace, and doing so in such a way so that it appeals to the majority of the fans of both codes.
das
That said, I think the only way to really blend the two into one game that could be enjoyed by lovers of both codes is to change what the game looks like as it's played - how it flows and the patterns that it creates. Union would have to give up some of the contest, while league would have to accept more contest. What slows down the union game the most? Scrums, and line-outs. What makes the union game exciting? Rucks and mauls. So, go with the softer (and quicker) league scrum, and lose the line-outs, but also lose those god-awful league tackles with the wimpy fish-flop to shake off the tackler and the ball pushback. Not sure about the phases of play - I don't care for the league rule, but at the same time it does possibly allow for a more balanced game. Perhaps if a side hasn't scored after 12 tackles then possession is turned over, but not after just a mere 6 tackles.
Anyway, those are the sorts of things that (imho) would need to be adjusted in order to create a truly hybrid game. Little technical things, like points and metres and such really wouldn't have much of an impact on how the game is actually played on the pitch, and thus how it would look (and appeal, or not) to the spectator in the stands. For me it would boil down to keeping what makes rugby union a game about the contest, while keeping what makes rugby league a game about the pace, and doing so in such a way so that it appeals to the majority of the fans of both codes.
das
SimonG
Academy Player
Right, and five a side football is the same as 11.
The 13 man game is just about right as evidenced by league....there are no holes everywhere as is the case in 7s, nor is field crowded as is the case with Union. There is constant attacking and flair, but it's then abruptly stopped, over 600 times on average, for the play the ball routine. This is where the Union tackle rule would come in and replace it.
A fast, attacking, exciting, creative game with a massive increase in skill. I accept there are purists/traditionalists who prefer the slower, less attacking, less creative, less skillful, more bogged down forward dominated game with line outs, scrums and constant breaks in play. However these views are the minority...I've yet to see any online clips on such play generate any interest. It's the one off moments of attacking flair that perks up interest. By eliminating the aspects that don't generate much interest, and increase the aspects that do...the result is a better game.
Rather than mistakenly being seen by some as being an attack on Rugby, this hybrid game retains the best aspect of Rugby. Rugby Union has changed...players are bigger than ever, the field is the same width thus the field is more crowded, less holes. The game is not changing with it.
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No you don't - you just remove the dynamics of the game.
If you look at a highlights reel from a movie it doesn't include the meat of the story, does it? It has about 5 minutes worth of scenes in it... does that make the bits that happen in between those scenes worthless?
**** no.
Your continuing refusal to accept that "most people" don't want to see the codes unified and that the elements of them both that you say "bog down" the sports are entirely necessary for the highlight reel moments to occur, is naive as ****.
im just wondering if the great font of sporting theory that simon is
what the hell happens when someone is tackled how does the ball recycle ?
as i gather we cant ruck we cant use leagues heel back does one side just keep the ball untill they drop it?
sounds like fun
what the hell happens when someone is tackled how does the ball recycle ?
as i gather we cant ruck we cant use leagues heel back does one side just keep the ball untill they drop it?
sounds like fun
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Seriously do people not realise that scrums and lineouts give you space for attacking rugby. 8 players being tied in gives more space than a game with 13 and no set peice where every member of the pack would basically be a backrower. It also allows set peice moves which gives you tries like these:
[video=youtube_share;h-qTk9RCF0Q]http://youtu.be/h-qTk9RCF0Q[/video]
http://youtu.be/PlJsV5j_aXo
http://youtu.be/PT35orm5-SE
[video=youtube_share;h-qTk9RCF0Q]http://youtu.be/h-qTk9RCF0Q[/video]
http://youtu.be/PlJsV5j_aXo
http://youtu.be/PT35orm5-SE
SimonG
Academy Player
Ever watched league? Why are most skillful players in league than union? It's simple..the emphasis on league is attacking and creativity and players constantly hone their skills...the backs in union spend most of the game unused while the big plodders in the forwards hog the ball. League folk talk of backs in Union getting cold. Ive seen games where 0'Driscoll barely got a touch...working with scraps is a testament to his greatness. Imagine if in football the defenders hogged the ball while the midfield playmakers and attackers spent most of the game unused. Folk go to see the playmakers and attackers....game changers. This also applies to Rugby where such rare incidents of flair attract most views.
You gather wrong. See above.
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Possibly one of the most arrogant ***** I've ever come across.
Simply unable to differentiate opinions from facts when constructing an argument.
Simply unable to differentiate opinions from facts when constructing an argument.
well how do you propose you recycle the ball ?
also have you played league?
when i moved to england my school where hugely into in league won a few competitions
played for both my local clubs for each code
and there isnt a huge amount more tires in league than union (in my experience)
never besides the huge amount of the first two of five possessions where used to smash it up the middle
low level grassroots stuff isnt hugely more open in either id say (from my experience)
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Mate he's a troll. We've been through this with him a dozen times now. He's not an idiot (although he's playing the part magnificently), he just wants to gee everyone up because he's a soccer fan with a chip on his shoulder about Rugby's history (but seems strangely comfortable with FIFA standing by whilst their Qatar World Cup is on track to kill 4000 slave workers - apparently that's not as big a class issue as Private Schools in England playing Union though).
SimonG
Academy Player
Who was it that said: "7s is pretty dull - increasing it to 13 players wouldn't do much to change that."
Opinion or fact?
Pot, kettle etc.
I based my point on the evidence we have before us...13 players in league. The amount of breaks is greater as the field isn't as crowded as Union.
This thread is about suggestions for a hybrid game...that's it. It won't happen of course which is a shame. The split in Rugby was a big mistake as having two competing codes will always impede growth.
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In what way did I present that as fact?
As opposed to...
....Two opinions, stated as fact when the evidence points to the contrary.
This thread is theoretical and not based on any significant real desire to see such a hybrid game happen - the equivalent of an "if you could have one superpower" thread.
As opposed to...
....Two opinions, stated as fact when the evidence points to the contrary.
This thread is theoretical and not based on any significant real desire to see such a hybrid game happen - the equivalent of an "if you could have one superpower" thread.
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SimonG
Academy Player
Show me the YouTube vids of scrums and line outs that have generated millions of views.
On the other hand, one bit of attacking flair by 0'Driscoll got over 1 million views, Lomu's brilliant attacking play have done likewise.
Hence it's this that generates most interest.
As regards change...with players bulkier than ever, has the width dimensions of the field changed?
sorted!!! to make the game better we should change the proportion of each pitch to the average size of the players
for extra inch wider the average player is on the pitch it should be 20 meters wider and 1 meter shorter
therefore we get more mass more lateral movement more tires! as the pitch will be around 10 meters long
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Show me the viewing figures for 7s and League vs Union internationals.
Do you eat bread on it's own? Not unless you're a madman.
Does that mean that sandwiches are better without the bread? Nope.
Although I've already used an equivalent analogy which you seem to have disregarded.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing an increase in pitch width - but a metre or so in total (50cm either side).
Not because players are bigger - because they are faster and fitter.
goodNumber10
International
if we're going on Youtube hits then defence and massive/dangerous tackles are probably the most popular elements of our game.. which flies completely in the face of what you're saying - that points to people enjoying the hits and defence more than attacking flair.
there are whole websites and compilations dedicated to it in fact.
or French.
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SimonG
Academy Player
Who mentioned 7s or league for viewing figures? The only viewing figures I mentioned was for the rare attacking creative moments in Union which generate the most views.
The issue is the game has less attacking, creative running Rugby as previous, embodied by France who have adopted the "stodgy" forward orientated game of others. This bogged down game is now the main course, running Rugby is a side order.
There are less holes than previous...players are bulked up to the heavens. When the game isnt being dominated by the forwards and the backs actually get their hands on the ball, how many clean breaks are there? There are loads in League as 13 is just about right, plus all the players are athletes so it's constant fast attacking Rugby (in between the play the ball routine).
