South Africa has that distance problem as well. The distance from for instance PE to Durban to see a match is ridiculous. With only 5 franchises of which 2 only 100 km away from each other (Bulls and Lions) it's as much a problem in SA as in NZ
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The new Super 15 format is kind of bullshit..
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Amobokoboko
Waikato Junglist
And in OZ as well I reckon.
SO this might also be an issue when trying to come up with a sort of Heinken cup format, on which teams are selected on the results of the domestic competition.
I don't see many SA, NZ cross the ocean to see their team play as airline rates aren't that cheap and I'm also wondering how the local teams will finance this.
SO this might also be an issue when trying to come up with a sort of Heinken cup format, on which teams are selected on the results of the domestic competition.
I don't see many SA, NZ cross the ocean to see their team play as airline rates aren't that cheap and I'm also wondering how the local teams will finance this.
Seaton
First XV
With regards to the above posts
This of course is all in relation to away fans, who normally would not be expected to occupy more than 5% of the crowd, so I don't think distance can be blamed for poor attendance.
However, (I don't know if this is the case in Aus/NZ) in SA there is a major gloryhunting aspect, with there being as many Bulls supporters in Jo'burg/Bloemfontein/Durban as there are in Pretoria, which needless to say has a negative affect on attendances (for the provinces in which said gloryhunters are based in)
I hate people who call themselves supporters, when the only games they attend are the finals, really does do my nut in
This of course is all in relation to away fans, who normally would not be expected to occupy more than 5% of the crowd, so I don't think distance can be blamed for poor attendance.
However, (I don't know if this is the case in Aus/NZ) in SA there is a major gloryhunting aspect, with there being as many Bulls supporters in Jo'burg/Bloemfontein/Durban as there are in Pretoria, which needless to say has a negative affect on attendances (for the provinces in which said gloryhunters are based in)
I hate people who call themselves supporters, when the only games they attend are the finals, really does do my nut in
I also hate glory-hunters but there's nothing you can do about it. It's just the way people are. If Madonna has a new album, 50 million people buy the album just because it's Madonna. It's something we in Holland call "kudde gedrag". Something in the line of herd behaviour. People like it because others do. Same with a successful team. Because they win, 90% of the people likes them. It's the easiest thing to do, path of no resistance.
I admire the fans who visit a game when their team is at the bottom of the log. Those people are the true fans.
I admire the fans who visit a game when their team is at the bottom of the log. Those people are the true fans.
From a SA point of view, yes the Currie Cup is being devalued. That is pretty much established.
SARU however say that the CC is their main focus as it's their main source of income. I can't accept that reasoning with the new conference system for the S15 in mind.
Nevertheless I'm not too phased that the CC is taking a backseat to be honest. Even without the current Springboks involved it is a strong and valued competition. Much stronger than the Vodacom Cup, which is the next tier domestically.
I am however not keen with regards to the way the fixtures are done. I hope there is method in the madness. The old Super Rugby system has been called repetitive and boring although it was 'fair', and now it seems to have swung in the other extreme with multiple X-factors that could be 'unfair'.
Not sure if it's add to the excitement or frustrate the fans more. I can't wait till February to see!
Agreed. I personally stop Lions fans when I see them in town (which BTW is about as rare as seeing a real lion in the city) just to shake their hand. All done after I've sympathized with them first of course..
SARU however say that the CC is their main focus as it's their main source of income. I can't accept that reasoning with the new conference system for the S15 in mind.
Nevertheless I'm not too phased that the CC is taking a backseat to be honest. Even without the current Springboks involved it is a strong and valued competition. Much stronger than the Vodacom Cup, which is the next tier domestically.
I am however not keen with regards to the way the fixtures are done. I hope there is method in the madness. The old Super Rugby system has been called repetitive and boring although it was 'fair', and now it seems to have swung in the other extreme with multiple X-factors that could be 'unfair'.
Not sure if it's add to the excitement or frustrate the fans more. I can't wait till February to see!
Agreed. I personally stop Lions fans when I see them in town (which BTW is about as rare as seeing a real lion in the city) just to shake their hand. All done after I've sympathized with them first of course..
Seaton
First XV
Long time no post Steve-o
Whilst I like the format of the S15, I agree that it is going to be unfair for some teams every year
I think it was mentioned earlier on this thread, but one of the NZ teams is missing out on the Lions and Rebels, whilst a SA/Aus team is missing out on 2 of the NZ big guns (Pity its not the Sharks)
Good to see Steve is back! In a competition where you don't play every team it's always unfair. I don't see why you should play teams in your own conference twice and because of that, miss out on 1 team of each of the other conferences. Seriously... If you decide to create a competition where you play 16 matches in the regular season, why not just add 2 more so you can play all the teams? Seriously... The difference between 16 and 18 is not that massive. The only problem is that it interferes with the domestic season (Currie Cup, ITM Cup), but that is already an issue with the current format
I was under the impression that it was only this year that teams where not playing every other team because they we're trying to finish the Super compitition earlier due to the world cup. This meaning that in 2012 every team would play each of their home teams twice and then everyone else once. Is this the case or is the "play everyone but except two random teams" format continuing into next year?
It would make it fair but what I am worried about is the devaluation of the ITM and Currie Cup due to the Super Rugby lasting so long. Are we going to see only youth players in the domestic competitions? If that's the case, just get rid of the Vodacom Cup then
Would anyone else like to see a system like the H-Cup in the SH? It has been mentioned a few times on this thread, and plenty of times before, but I'd love to see a SH competition which goes something like this -
Mid way through a normal season, the top 8 provincial teams of the previous season from New Zealand and South Africa, top 5 from Australia (just the franchises that already exist), 2 from Japan and one from Argentina, play in a H-Cup style tornement. It would keep people interested throughout a season, involve two developing countries, would probably get a lot of commercial backing from Japan and instead of the over complicated format that currently exists would be easy to follow and generate plenty of interest. It would slightly lower the number of games a team could potentially get a season, from last seasons 32 potential games for any player, to 27, which would be great in terms of players getting more rest, while the top players can compete in a meaningful NPC.
For the teams that don't make it into the H-Cup style torne, a second devision tornement like the Amlin Challange Cup, which could host the lower devision NPC sides, and CC First Devision, with the winner perhaps getting automatic promotion to the H-C style tornement next year, regardless of position.
Anyway, it's just a thought. I think I'd be more interested in seeing the Blue Bulls v Hawkes Bay or Wellington v Boland Cavaliers, as there would actually be some more local interest. Sweeping franchises mean very little to many of the people in the smaller provinces, so I think it would generate more interest, while expanding rugby more globally.
Mid way through a normal season, the top 8 provincial teams of the previous season from New Zealand and South Africa, top 5 from Australia (just the franchises that already exist), 2 from Japan and one from Argentina, play in a H-Cup style tornement. It would keep people interested throughout a season, involve two developing countries, would probably get a lot of commercial backing from Japan and instead of the over complicated format that currently exists would be easy to follow and generate plenty of interest. It would slightly lower the number of games a team could potentially get a season, from last seasons 32 potential games for any player, to 27, which would be great in terms of players getting more rest, while the top players can compete in a meaningful NPC.
For the teams that don't make it into the H-Cup style torne, a second devision tornement like the Amlin Challange Cup, which could host the lower devision NPC sides, and CC First Devision, with the winner perhaps getting automatic promotion to the H-C style tornement next year, regardless of position.
Anyway, it's just a thought. I think I'd be more interested in seeing the Blue Bulls v Hawkes Bay or Wellington v Boland Cavaliers, as there would actually be some more local interest. Sweeping franchises mean very little to many of the people in the smaller provinces, so I think it would generate more interest, while expanding rugby more globally.
Seaton
First XV
That's a good idea, but the main problem I think is the time-zone difference between Australasia and SA, never mind the travel distance between SA and Japan (heaven forbid the difference between Argentina and Japan)
If it weren't for the distance, I would love to see a HC style tourney
Hopefully SANZAR + Japs + Argies can come up with the goods
@ Tomsey
That's the first I've heard of that, hope it's true
If it weren't for the distance, I would love to see a HC style tourney
Hopefully SANZAR + Japs + Argies can come up with the goods
@ Tomsey
That's the first I've heard of that, hope it's true
It's a nice idea but the problem with the Amlin Cup-idea is that clubs like Griffons, Valke, Boland for instance, might not have the financial baggage to organise the trips and all, which means they should get a proper funding for even playing in the second Tier international competition. The question which comes to mind then is if it is worth it because I am not sure if a lot of people will even watch those matches with the focus being on the big guns in the first Tier competition
Financial and time problems are valid. Perhaps what would be a good solution towards that, is that each pool of the H-C/Amlin Cup style event, could be delegated to a certain city/country. Therefore the money and travel time would not be an issue. For example -
Pool A Plays in Wellington, Hamilton and Christchurch.
Pool B Plays in Durban, Bloemfontein, Pretoria
Pool C Plays in Perth, Sydney and Brisbane
Pool D Plays in Tokyo first rounds, Buenos Aries second rounds
Pool E Plays in Christchurch, Auckland and Melbourne
Pool F Plays in Capetown and Johannesburg
Alternatively, perhaps a rotation of countries to host the event every season. There would be ways to make it work, but it would rely mainly on television viewership instead of general attendance.
In that case it would be similar to a tour. For instance, Eastern Province will travel to New Zealand to play matches against 3 different teams teams. That would work but takes a lot of preparation
I think it would be worth it. The only thing that I can see being an issue, is filling stadiums with forign teams playing. I don't know what the turn out would be like with a Japanese team playing a South African team, in New Zealand. Most of the money comes though TV rights and sponcership, but having low crowd turn outs would be an issue. All and all, I think having a system like this, would re add the value of the domestic games in each country, and offer a slighlty more exciting tornement, to a larger range of countries.
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I don't want to have to get up at 3am constantly to watch my team play, either
Seaton
First XV
I've never thought about what time you guys over in Aus/NZ have to watch games in SA.
Gads that's horrible, at least we get the NZ games at 8 am+ in SA
Almost makes me feel as though more emphasis should be placed on playing games at 2/3 pm here
In the Holidays, I'm more likely to be up at 3am than 8am. But yeah, 3:00am every times an NZ team plays in RSA.
One of the other big issues is of course the timezone-barrier. In the NH, everything is in Europe which is, at most, 3 hours difference (Ireland ---- Romania)
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