The refereeing of the 2010 Tri Nations

[Sparty]

I guess the difficulty in beating the Boks in the Republic was reduced dramatically for us once neutral referees were involved.

I could same the same vice versa.

Just remember, the Wallabies and the French have knocked us out of the RWC in the semis and quarters twice each, something that South Africa has never done.

True that may be but we beat you in the finals where you were firm favorites against arguably the greatest ABS team ever , Fitzpatrick , Zinzan , Dowde , Bunce , little , Wilson the list goes on , and please don't argue that the ABS were not favorites , SA had something like 3 or 4 players capped more than 10 times and mostly unknpwn players outside SA. I watched the game again the other day of ESPN classics. PLayers like Joost was unknown.

How would you stop supporters from the NH voting in it?

Results , there has only been two teams historically besides the French in WC's that has been reasonably competitive against the ABS and if lets say for instance Wales was an option , I dont think many New Zealanders would remember Epic test's where they beat Wales always (no offense to the Welsh , just using an example.

Anyway , off to bed , will catch up tomorrow. Nite all

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I could same the same vice versa.



True that may be but we beat you in the finals where you were firm favorites against arguably the greatest ABS team ever , Fitzpatrick , Zinzan , Dowde , Bunce , little , Wilson the list goes on , and please don't argue that the ABS were not favorites , SA had something like 3 or 4 players capped more than 10 times and mostly unknpwn players outside SA. I watched the game again the other day of ESPN classics. PLayers like Joost was unknown.



Results , there has only been two teams historically besides the French in WC's that has been reasonably competitive against the ABS and if lets say for instance Wales was an option , I dont think many New Zealanders would remember Epic test's where they beat Wales always (no offense to the Welsh , just using an example.

Anyway , off to bed , will catch up tomorrow. Nite all

Thing is tho ... some people when you read their posts about these types of thing only believe rugby started and that the major rivalries only began in the late 80s. Truth be it that this is certainly not the case. Wales and New Zealand have both had a rich history against each other, albeit in only 27 Test Matches compared the 119 of England. Much rivalry comes from the much famous tour game on the 16th December 1905, when Wales beat the seemingly invincible (although 1924 was that tour) All Blacks 3-0 ... with one of the most controversial tires in the history of rugby.

 

[Sam Owen]

I have heard of the Welsh and All Black rivalry of back in the day. One of the most popular ones in Rugby history I've been told and now reminded.

 

[smartcooky]

Thing is tho ... some people when you read their posts about these types of thing only believe rugby started and that the major rivalries only began in the late 80s. Truth be it that this is certainly not the case. Wales and New Zealand have both had a rich history against each other, albeit in only 27 Test Matches compared the 119 of England. Much rivalry comes from the much famous tour game on the 16th December 1905, when Wales beat the seemingly invincible (although 1924 was that tour) All Blacks 3-0 ... with one of the most controversial tires in the history of rugby.

Yup. in the 1970s and 80s All Black tests against the Welsh made me more nervous than playing anyone else

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Yup. in the 1970s and 80s All Black tests against the Welsh made me more nervous than playing anyone else

Im not saying its the All Blacks biggest rivalry but we are up there with the likes of Australia, South Africa and what you have not.

 

[woodward]

Guy WTF are you on about ? I was responding to post by Woodward that said the below. He was implying that the Aussies were dominant over the ABs or rather they had a few good years in a 3-4 years period and its something the Boks never achieved , I replied that in that period the Aussies won 6 out of 5 games against the ABS. Not brain surgery but one can hardly call that a few good years over the ABS now can we ? This is reference to Aussies Vs Abs and that only. Please take some time and read through the post and replies before having a hernia.

I said they had a great era, not just against the All Blacks though I used the wins they had over some great All Black sides as evidence theres also plenty more-see ezequiel's post. Would you not consider beating the All Blacks 6 times in 4 years a very good effort anyway? or 5 times in 3 years if you take out 03 in which they beat us in a semi final but lost the Bledisloe to us, actually wouldn't they have beaten us twice in 98 as well to win the thing. So it seems you've attempted to manipulate the stats a bit. Either way probably the best era by any country since professionalism began, thats why we have current coaches and players claiming to value the Bledisloe over the 3N. Plus we hate each other anyway

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

well there isnt much of us i can tell you that especially if they love the game of rugby, but there is alot of alot of non rugby supporters who are glad to see them lose because of the local press and the seriousness that some take a loss,mainly women [but i wouldnt expect mr iverson or woodward to be experts on that topic]
but im born and raised in nz, but i live in australia mainly these days

What are you not expecting us to be experts on exactly? People who don't follow the All Blacks? Come on, that's just a weird pointless thing for anyone to want to be an expert on.

 

[woodward]

I'm not an expert on women, I'm an expert at being on women

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

I'm not an expert on women, I'm an expert at being on women

Neither am I, after being married 5 years and having a nearly four year old kid. I don't think anyone ever becomes an expert on women.

Maybe this is something we can all agree on?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'm not an expert on women, I'm an expert at being on women

Where is this proof ....

 

[woodward]

wouldn't you like to know

 

[Natas]

Also if you read some of the latest post here, newbies will think that all this forum is about moaning about penalty counts ... dear lord please forgive those who have sinned![/QUOTE]

It truly does astound me thats for sure.:euh:Makes me weary about posting without my facts 100% though.

 

[Shaggy]

Thing is tho ... some people when you read their posts about these types of thing only believe rugby started and that the major rivalries only began in the late 80s. Truth be it that this is certainly not the case. Wales and New Zealand have both had a rich history against each other, albeit in only 27 Test Matches compared the 119 of England. Much rivalry comes from the much famous tour game on the 16th December 1905, when Wales beat the seemingly invincible (although 1924 was that tour) All Blacks 3-0 ... with one of the most controversial tires in the history of rugby.

Yes and Bob Deans was pulled back in that tackle I tell ya

 

[Sparty]

I said they had a great era, not just against the All Blacks though I used the wins they had over some great All Black sides as evidence theres also plenty more-see ezequiel's post. Would you not consider beating the All Blacks 6 times in 4 years a very good effort anyway? or 5 times in 3 years if you take out 03 in which they beat us in a semi final but lost the Bledisloe to us, actually wouldn't they have beaten us twice in 98 as well to win the thing. So it seems you've attempted to manipulate the stats a bit. Either way probably the best era by any country since professionalism began, thats why we have current coaches and players claiming to value the Bledisloe over the 3N. Plus we hate each other anyway

Okay , we looking at this from very different angles. Point taken. I was not attempting to manipulate the stats , simply showing that the win loss ratio was not the awesome cos no I dont think 6/11 is a great result , its a good result but not great as we should aspire to be great. The ABS record against SA post Isolation is great , The Crusaders record in Super rugby is great. Thats the Diffs for me. So to answer you , yes I would consider a 60/40 win ratio as good but not great.

 

[Sparty]

neither am i, after being married 5 years and having a nearly four year old kid. I don't think anyone ever becomes an expert on women.

Maybe this is something we can all agree on?

true !!!!! Lol

 

[DanCarterite]

Neither am I, after being married 5 years and having a nearly four year old kid. I don't think anyone ever becomes an expert on women.

Maybe this is something we can all agree on?

Sorry, you have not come up with the only comment everyone on TRF can agree with. Unfortunately there are odd creatures of the female persuasion who are passionate rugby supporters and members of TRF. Whilst I can't say I am an expert on all women I'm certainly an expert at being one

 

[smartcooky]

Sorry, you have not come up with the only comment everyone on TRF can agree with. Unfortunately there are odd creatures of the female persuasion who are passionate rugby supporters and members of TRF. Whilst I can't say I am an expert on all women I'm certainly an expert at being one

Right, so that opens the door for me to fire off the classic supporter's sledge

"DOES YOUR HUSBAND
PLAY RUGBY TOO?"

 

[DanCarterite]

Hubby is a bit ancient to still play, but he did play for Bluff.

 

[Sparty]

IMO...

► The McCaw - Burger incident was nothing.

► The Rossouw - McCaw incident was nothing, but Rossouw acted stupidly in drawing attention to himself by upping the ante and going after McCaw after he got to his feet. If he had let it lie, nothing would have happened.

► de Villiers, Cooper and Fourie all deserved their suspensions. The Law is clear... TIP TACKLES THAT END WITH THE PLAYER BEING DROPPED OR DRIVEN ARE OUT!!! No argument!

► Rene Ranger's tackle was NOT a shoulder charge when you saw the slo-mo, but given that he was penalised, he probably should have been yellow carded. He would not have been suspended afterwards

► Bakkies Botha should have been red carded for the head butt. How did both the referee and the nearside touch judge miss it? Those who say it would not have happened if Cowan had been penalised for the pull back are talking ********; the referee would have played advantage, and Bakkies would have done it anyway. Thugs like Bakkies can't resist getting the filthy cheap shot in any chance they get. In fact, if the referee had seen Cowan and played advantage, he would also have been more likely to be looking at Cowan instead of the ball after he got the ball away, so he would likely have seen the head butt... then bye bye Bakkies!!!

► Tony Woodcock should have got a yellow card. Yes, Fa'ainga was loitering around on the NZ side of the ruck, but what Woodcock did was unacceptable. He could not be cited for reasons I have explained elsewhere, but he certainly should have spent 10 min. keeping the naughty chair warm.

Hi , sorry only saw this now for some reason , agree on all , would like to know what your view is of the shoulder charge of Frank against Juan De Jongh and if the Woodcock incident tell us that maybe the ABS are favored more re foul play ? Or maybe the SA refs are just more lenient ?

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Hubby is a bit ancient to still play, but he did play for Bluff.

Bluff! I've had my share of run ins with them for Waikiwi, lol. Nothing beats scoring a try or a win down there (well when you get one)!

 

[smartcooky]

Hi , sorry only saw this now for some reason , agree on all , would like to know what your view is of the shoulder charge of Frank against Juan De Jongh and if the Woodcock incident tell us that maybe the ABS are favored more re foul play ? Or maybe the SA refs are just more lenient ?

► Franks/De Jong? Which match, the one in Jo-burg? If so, didn't see it. I have the whole game on disk so I can find it if you tell me the approximate game time.

► Why do I think Woodcock wasn't yellow carded? Perhaps Kaplan felt that the game had been clean up until then and he didn't need to up the ante. If the game had been ****ly, perhaps he would have carded Woodcock to cool off any flash-points.

Remember that a yellow card is as much a management tool for the referee as it is a punishment. Referees, especially NH ones, will sometimes give an early yellow card for a first offence if it is blatant or a professional foul. One that comes to mind was the yellow card that Wayne Barnes gave against Scotland vs New Zealand. He binned Nick De Luca in the 3rd minute for playing the ball on the ground after a tackle, where most referees would simply penalise and perhaps warn. That sort of card comes under the heading of "setting your stall out early".

 

[Sparty]

► Franks/De Jong? Which match, the one in Jo-burg? If so, didn't see it. I have the whole game on disk so I can find it if you tell me the approximate game time.

► Why do I think Woodcock wasn't yellow carded? Perhaps Kaplan felt that the game had been clean up until then and he didn't need to up the ante. If the game had been ****ly, perhaps he would have carded Woodcock to cool off any flash-points.

Remember that a yellow card is as much a management tool for the referee as it is a punishment. Referees, especially NH ones, will sometimes give an early yellow card for a first offence if it is blatant or a professional foul. One that comes to mind was the yellow card that Wayne Barnes gave against Scotland vs New Zealand. He binned Nick De Luca in the 3rd minute for playing the ball on the ground after a tackle, where most referees would simply penalise and perhaps warn. That sort of card comes under the heading of "setting your stall out early".

It was in the SA / ABS game at Soccer city , I will try and find out when it happened.

 

[madflyhalf]

I remember that and I can't understand why nobody cited Franks who dived into the ruck with his elbow, hitting De Jongh on his face (jaw)!

Anyway I've seen a good referee performance on saturday, only 2 bad calls: the first was a 1st half scrum for SA, reset, but it was clearly penalty against SA front row who has gone upwards to avoid the pressure. Reset, scrum, and Juan Smith try...
Second was holding gave against Beale in the second half (early): Jean De Villiers tackled him and never released him, with new laws it's penalty (as given to Saia Fainga'a after a lineout in the first half).

 

[Sparty]

I will have to view the tape again this w\end to see what it happend.

 

[Larksea]

I think the all blacks just have better discipline. And they respond to warnings better.

I mean Look back over the last few years, when was the last time we saw an all black with his fingers in another players eye? or an all black head butting another player? And how often to we see all blacks make lifting "spear" type tackles? Not very often...

There was a Carter High tackle last year? not much in it but it caused a crap storm. Then Have to go back to Brad thorn dumping John Smit a couple of years ago for anything of note. Very unlike Brad and stupid rather than dangerous. Before that we have to go way back to Tana's cleanout on BOD, careless maybe yes intensional? No.

In contrast is anyone ever suprised to see the likes of Burger or Botha when they get in trouble these days? Or to a lesser extent butch james... Not really, with those guys it's just a matter of when rather than if. And the boks only have themselves to blame when the coach backs their actions.

Was actually great to see Jimmy Cowan just laugh it off when Both head butted him. He is one player that can react badly to situations like that, but the way he delt with it was pure class.

 

[Jer1cho]

Before that we have to go way back to Tana's cleanout on BOD, careless maybe yes intensional? No.

Uh oh.... I'm getting the heck out of here!!!!

******

 

[lynam1104]

it was a cowardly ans evil thing to do by Tana he should go to jail.

 

[Hurricane Nate]

Tana and Mealamu. Everyone forgets Mealamu haha

 

[lynam1104]

cus he was not the captain of NZ.

 

[Sam Owen]

It happens in Rugby. It was sad to see O'Driscoll hurt like he was, he's been at the top in terms of centres for a long time. That was awhile ago now and the tackle was dangerous, was it intentional?...only Tana and Kevin will ever truely know.