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Transformation in Springbok Rugby- Sports Minister Quotes from the Post WC conf

OT but could anyone explain to me why SA Hockey is not allowed to go to the Olympics?

The impression I get is that winning the Africa Hockey Competition is not considered sufficient. It would be like South Africa winning an African continental Rugby Competition, or the USA winning an American Football world cup. Effectively all they would have to do is turn up and they would win. (I think they should be allowed to go BTW)
 
It is a mess, but i don't think the South African government actually has much, if any, real power, over the SARU. World Rugby and the IOC are the people with the real power in all this.

If the government interferes too much then World Rugby and IOC will step in and put a stop to it.

I wish I could agree. I spent 35 years in SA and have seen and experienced the "transformation" first hand.

I would prefer not to get too political here. The last thing I want is to be labelled with the R word but unfortunately there are power obsessed individuals in Govt (Mugabesque) and other areas who would at the very least seriously damage the broad culture of rugby in SA in the long term rather than compromise or backdown from their own agenda.

It is this culture which has been largely responsible for many of the social ills in SA today and SA rugby is not exempt from this.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do.
 
The impression I get is that winning the Africa Hockey Competition is not considered sufficient. It would be like South Africa winning an African continental Rugby Competition, or the USA winning an American Football world cup. Effectively all they would have to do is turn up and they would win. (I think they should be allowed to go BTW)

It's sounds like the SA government is letting them go though. Why?
 
I wish I could agree. I spent 35 years in SA and have seen and experienced the "transformation" first hand.

I would prefer not to get too political here. The last thing I want is to be labelled with the R word but unfortunately there are power obsessed individuals in Govt (Mugabesque) and other areas who would at the very least seriously damage the broad culture of rugby in SA in the long term rather than compromise or backdown from their own agenda.

It is this culture which has been largely responsible for many of the social ills in SA today and SA rugby is not exempt from this.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do.

I hear what you're saying, but the point I'm trying to make is that although the ANC may have all the power in respect of purely south african matters. The real money in rugby comes from the World Cup, Rugby Championship and Super Rugby. All of which are international competitions and all of which are run by International Rugby Board/World Rugby. If the ANC go too far and try to impose quotas then World Rugby will step in and say no. If South Africa are banned then all the money will stop. Maybe that's why the ANC talk talk and talk, but Quotas never seem to happen.
 
I hear what you're saying, but the point I'm trying to make is that although the ANC may have all the power in respect of purely south african matters. The real money in rugby comes from the World Cup, Rugby Championship and Super Rugby. All of which are international competitions and all of which are run by International Rugby Board/World Rugby. If the ANC go too far and try to impose quotas then World Rugby will step in and say no. If South Africa are banned then all the money will stop. Maybe that's why the ANC talk talk and talk, but Quotas never seem to happen.

Quotas happened to us this RWC though. Meyer made his 30% for the RWC 2015 (okay so it was ~29%). Did those making up the number feature? No. Did tha damage our chances? Yes. It meant we coud not fall back on form players where our old heads were dropping the ball because we did not bring along rookies because of form, we brought along rookies because they were black. It just limited our options. When the margins are as fine as at top level sport you can't afford not to go at it with all hands available.
 
Quotas happened to us this RWC though. Meyer made his 30% for the RWC 2015 (okay so it was ~29%). Did those making up the number feature? No. Did tha damage our chances? Yes. It meant we coud not fall back on form players where our old heads were dropping the ball because we did not bring along rookies because of form, we brought along rookies because they were black. It just limited our options. When the margins are as fine as at top level sport you can't afford not to go at it with all hands available.

He picked the players "voluntarily", the ANC have never tried to take punitive action. I wonder what the IRB would do if targets/quotas were missed and the ANC tried to enforce them by some form of legal action. I don't know for definite but I believe/hope that the IRB would step in and put a stop to it. Especially if the team was loosing when it should be winning. (If I'm being cynical, I think the IRB may turn a but of a blind eye as long as the team was still winning/competitive), a strong South African team is one the IRB's main assets.
 
If the ANC go too far and try to impose quotas then World Rugby will step in and say no. If South Africa are banned then all the money will stop.

And therein lies the problem. This govt have been known to cut off their noses to spite their faces in the past. While the loss of revenue will be regrettable their position will be that the "West" (which is a term used to describe traditional colonial powers) must not think they can dictate to them how to run their country. It's an often used argument to paint international influencers as the old enemy of Africans.

There I've said it. Now I'll just wait for the name calling to begin.
 
wow, what a conundrum, just imagine if SA allowed players of colour to play against foes. I sense whinging?
 
He picked the players "voluntarily", the ANC have never tried to take punitive action. I wonder what the IRB would do if targets/quotas were missed and the ANC tried to enforce them by some form of legal action. I don't know for definite but I believe/hope that the IRB would step in and put a stop to it. Especially if the team was loosing when it should be winning. (If I'm being cynical, I think the IRB may turn a but of a blind eye as long as the team was still winning/competitive), a strong South African team is one the IRB's main assets.

There is nothing voluntarily about picking quotas. And remember, HM isn't the only guy that is part of the selection process, and this is where Heyneke gets all the blame, and the other selectors gets off scot free. They point the finger at him for picking a squad, but he didn't do it alone, and there are certainly a lot of things happening behind closed doors that we don't hear about which does have an influence on the selection and the transformation of the team.
 
And therein lies the problem. This govt have been known to cut off their noses to spite their faces in the past. While the loss of revenue will be regrettable their position will be that the "West" (which is a term used to describe traditional colonial powers) must not think they can dictate to them how to run their country. It's an often used argument to paint international influencers as the old enemy of Africans.

There I've said it. Now I'll just wait for the name calling to begin.

I hope you are wrong. But it's happened in the past with Zimbabwean Cricket. How did destroying Zimbabwean Cricket help the day to day lives of Black Zimbabweans

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wow, what a conundrum, just imagine if SA allowed players of colour to play against foes. I sense whinging?

Troll off!!!
 
News24 and IOLnews closed their readers' forums in SA forever, because of questions as relevant as yours. These things were polarising, more than attracting positive debate and they pulled the plug simultaneously, shortly after our own Pearl Harbour. The style here is, if you disagree, you and your buddies burn down a clinic or stone a couple of buses. The latest trend is kill a few Zimbabweans, Somali's or other "brothers" from up north, so you can rob their shops and call it "xenophobia". The essence of my question is, in a country gone mad, what relevance would a game, like rugby have? The entire national soccer team is demographically "correct". Now how fair is that, considering the Ministers foot in mouth speech about quotas? SARU is financially sound and in the back. Politicians are after the "black", not the game. They have scoffed for twenty plus years and see the bottom of the trough fast approaching. They are getting restive. We'll be screwed before 2019.

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Don't know. Try useless?
 
Finally a politician speaking some sense with regard to the transformation issue:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/2019-transformation-plan-a-funeral-policy-da-20160420

[TEXTAREA]"I would still suggest and put it that this transformation policy is a funeral policy … maybe a nicer name is calling it 'colour by numbers,'" said Bergman.

Bergman was concerned that the policy would encourage South African players to further their careers overseas.

"The problem with that is not that it’s white players (leaving South Africa) … it’s a mixture of players and the feedback would be that we are creating two classes of player again," he said.

"When you play overseas, you’re a rugby player. You’re not a white player or a black player, you’re just a rugby player.

"When you play in South Africa, though, you’ve got the added burden of being judged … are you there because you’re a merit player, or are you there because you’re a certain colour?"

Bergman challenged a rethink when it came to transformation policy, saying that a greater focus should be placed on the lower levels as opposed to the national team.

"I don’t think that’s what we meant when we said we want transformation. We’re totally for transformation, but the transformation has to be responsible," he said.

"Transformation … if it was taking place correctly at school level, club level and provincial level then we would never have to worry about what was happening on a national level because then transformation corrects itself. [/TEXTAREA]

The Bold parts especially is something I wish more people would take to heart!
 

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